Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

All borders to reopen.

Old 15th Aug 2020, 05:48
  #841 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
Looks like S28- BE’s writing style is rubbing off on others!
Thought I was reading a NOTAM for a second...
Stickshift3000 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2020, 09:00
  #842 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,285
Received 350 Likes on 190 Posts
Originally Posted by Guitar Joe
Is Dr Borody only able to discover treatment protocols in gastroenterology? Are treatment protocols in Respiratory diseases rendered useless if found or administered by doctors from another specialty?
Don’t all treatment protocols begin life by demonstrating efficacy in a petrie dish?
Is the efficacy of a drug determined by which news or opinion outlet gives it airtime? Would the drug work if The Project or CNN interviewed Dr Borody?
No, and I’m not using Ad Hominems in my criticism.

At no point I’m saying a Gastroenterologist is not able to discover treatment protocols in other fields, but have a think why a Gastroenterologist is touring a cure that a Senior Biomedical Research Fellow who did the actual petri dish study has said more work needs to be done on in order to know if the safe level of Ivermectin that can be given to humans will have an effect on the virus. Or why an Infectious Disease Professor and Clinician heading up an Australian COVID trial has said he hasn’t seen any of this supposed data, and the study from Bangladesh was of poor quality. Why do two people with more knowledge of COVID treatment and research dispute this Gastroenterologist’s statements? Why does a senior Molecular Pharmacologist at Uni of Adelaide say this:

When asked about the drug’s potential in treating coronavirus, Dr Ian Musgrave, a molecular pharmacologist from the University of Adelaide, said: “Oh no, not Ivermectin.”

“No, it‘s not a cure for COVID-19,” Dr Musgrave added.

“It works in test-tube experiments, but is unlikely to work clinically as it is hard to achieve effective plasma concentrations. No clinical trials data are available yet and in the absence of any public data, claims of the high efficacy are to be taken with a grain of salt.”
What the interesting thing is is that there already is a treatment, Remdesivir, that has already been approved by the TGA as a COVID treatment. It has been shown in clinical trials to reduce disease length in patients with severe symptoms, although it definitely isn’t being touted as a “miracle cure”.

Makes me think those sprouting Ivermectin are doing it for political or financial reasons, like the Hydroxychloroquine pushers are.


dr dre is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2020, 12:22
  #843 (permalink)  
601
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Age: 78
Posts: 1,476
Received 19 Likes on 14 Posts
Why do two people with more knowledge of COVID treatment and research dispute this Gastroenterologist’s statements? Why does a senior Molecular Pharmacologist at Uni of Adelaide say this:
Because some people cannot think outside the square.
usual media loons like Rowan Dean and Miranda Devine
Shooting the messenger again.
601 is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 01:07
  #844 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Age: 68
Posts: 1,913
Received 295 Likes on 124 Posts
Lock Melburnians in. Nobody in, nobody out. Unless your freight.

Let Regional Victoria become its own state essentially. Jetstar can use Avalon to service the people of Regional Vic, use the Geelong crew. Until the people of Melbourne can control themselves.

Perhaps then they might get the message.

PoppaJo is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 01:08
  #845 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 74
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I dont know how closed a closed border is, reading the Adelaide Advertiser on Thursday there were 12 QANTAS arrivals to Adelaide from Melbourne alone and 15 Virgin arrivals from Melbourne, there were many more arrivals from all over the place
Arnold E is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 01:12
  #846 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Age: 68
Posts: 1,913
Received 295 Likes on 124 Posts
Arnold the media are just posting what they see on airport websites or boards, which defaults to the pre covid schedule.

Idiots on morning TV the other day having a crack at a Politician because there was 20 flights a day between ML and SY. The truth is there was 2.
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 01:39
  #847 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PoppaJo
Lock Melburnians in. Nobody in, nobody out. Unless your freight.

Let Regional Victoria become its own state essentially. Jetstar can use Avalon to service the people of Regional Vic, use the Geelong crew. Until the people of Melbourne can control themselves.

Perhaps then they might get the message.
Poppa, I can almost guarantee if The Hotel Quarantine debacle (which has been proven to be the primary cause of the second wave) happened in a state where the weather is much better at this time of year (Queensland comes to mind) would have resulted in even less adherence to the lockdown rules and an even bigger outbreak.

But that’s ok, you continue to blame the Melburnians, you and Dan will get along real well.

99% of us are doing the right thing and really love wearing masks everywhere and going in for a COVID test every time we get a cough.

I can only assume you have got lucky and live in a state with a slightly more competent Government with lower COVID numbers (for now)?

Green.Dot is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 01:57
  #848 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,118
Received 68 Likes on 41 Posts
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
99% of us are doing the right thing and really love wearing masks everywhere and going in for a COVID test every time we get a cough
Entirely agree with everything you wrote in that post green.dot, our state would have been no different. One thing though, we don't intend to allow stay at home quarantine because of what we are hearing in the media that 1 in 4 infected stay at home quarantines are not home when checked. If that's true then you need to sort that.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 02:23
  #849 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
99% of us are doing the right thing and really love wearing masks everywhere and going in for a COVID test every time we get a cough.
Absolutely.

Of the roughly 3000 active cases in Vic, 2000 or so are related to the aged care sector.

That leaves 1000 or so cases spread via other means, in a state with a population of 6.3 million. Pretty low rate of illness!
Stickshift3000 is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 02:36
  #850 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,118
Received 68 Likes on 41 Posts
Your first concern should be how and why so many medical staff, clearly there is something wrong with PPE and or decontamination and disposal procedures. That's why ours don't want to come over and help. I hope you're not suggesting by "pretty low rate of illness" (for now) it's no big deal.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 03:35
  #851 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 916
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Do boarders closures work?

If we take the recovered cases and the death cases in each state we get the following death rates.

Vic 3.6%
NSW 1.7%
WA 1.4%
SA 0.87%
QLD 0.5%

If Vic proceeds at this rate of 3.6% of the remaining cases we can expect another around 300 deaths in coming days.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 03:57
  #852 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Age: 68
Posts: 1,913
Received 295 Likes on 124 Posts
Originally Posted by Stickshift3000
Absolutely.

Of the roughly 3000 active cases in Vic, 2000 or so are related to the aged care sector.

That leaves 1000 or so cases spread via other means, in a state with a population of 6.3 million. Pretty low rate of illness!
8000 active cases.

Poppa, I can almost guarantee if The Hotel Quarantine debacle (which has been proven to be the primary cause of the second wave) happened in a state where the weather is much better at this time of year (Queensland comes to mind) would have resulted in even less adherence to the lockdown rules and an even bigger outbreak.
I wish. Go live in places like Wyndham or Melton. Demographic, Mass Housing, Dirty Bogans, Nobody gives two ****s.

Wyndam and Melton cases are trending up.

Half the wankers I’ve kicked off over the years are from Melton or Hoppers. Absolute rot of the earth destroying it for everyone else.

Last edited by PoppaJo; 16th Aug 2020 at 04:08.
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 04:11
  #853 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mostly here, sometimes over there...
Posts: 373
Received 63 Likes on 19 Posts
Buttscratcher is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 04:24
  #854 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PoppaJo
8000 active cases.
Apologies, you are correct. I misread the numbers.
Stickshift3000 is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 05:36
  #855 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
UNSW Adjunct Professor Bill Bowtell, one of Australia's leading public health strategists [...] strongly advocates the kinds of measures seen in New Zealand and thinks Australia should follow their goal of eliminating community transmission."There seemed to be decisions made by the Federal and Victorian governments that they would not learn from and adopt what was going on next door in New Zealand and even closer to home in Queensland and Western Australia," he said.

"I don't think the strategies adopted by those two governments have worked out very well.

"We would have been much better off to have adopted the New Zealand approach in the first place."

In June, NSW, which had been the worst-affected state in Australia before Victoria's second wave, had three weeks without community transmission, and Mr Bowtell said that was a good target to aim for.

That could again be achieved by shifting to stricter lockdowns, like in New Zealand.

"It's like extinguishing the embers of a bushfire. It's better than waiting until the flames are 10 metres high," Mr Bowtell said.

"It is better than dealing with hundreds of new cases a day."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...s-how/12555562
Derfred is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 06:11
  #856 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 2,468
Received 310 Likes on 116 Posts
FFS it’s BORDERS, not BOARDERS
morno is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 06:24
  #857 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm beginning to think these epidemiologists, however esteemed, are becoming unhelpful by making a running commentary. Its easy to criticise initial strategies in hindsight. Many of these scientists now appear to be relishing their time in the limelight...
But the constant differing opinions being sprouted daily just add to people's angst and spread confusion in the community.
One scientist advocating for a full lockdown for example may not demonstrate the scientific consensus. BUT that loudest voice has made it to national TV... next minute political pressure... a positive feedback loop driven by hysteria and getting further away from peer reviewed scientific consensus.

I'm not saying i'm against lockdown etc, just that IMO things in the community would be better if the media stopped giving these guys air time and instead the scientists provided their valuable insight direct to the government.
lc_461 is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 06:31
  #858 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 642
Received 19 Likes on 5 Posts
How many epidemiologists are on jobkeeper?
ruprecht is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 06:40
  #859 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: YMML
Posts: 27
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
How about this for a contrary view: Sweden's Success before the lockdowners quote the early deaths in Sweden, they admit they stuffed up on aged care. Look at Sweden's current data for this week - nothing is closed and they have way less deaths than Vic. because they now have herd immunity. The death rates per million this week in the UK and Sweden are lower than Australia.
Meanwhile in NZ and Vic. everyone who just started to get their jobs back has been slammed again. Are we going to shut down for six weeks every three months indefinitely?

People who advocate hard lockdowns are inevitably on the public payroll have suffered nothing - Vic. Public Servants just got a pay rise to rub your noses in it. Vic PS Payrise July 2020
Whispering T-Jet is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2020, 07:52
  #860 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 916
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Whispering T-Jet
How about this for a contrary view: Sweden's Success before the lockdowners quote the early deaths in Sweden, they admit they stuffed up on aged care. Look at Sweden's current data for this week - nothing is closed and they have way less deaths than Vic. because they now have herd immunity. The death rates per million this week in the UK and Sweden are lower than Australia.
Meanwhile in NZ and Vic. everyone who just started to get their jobs back has been slammed again. Are we going to shut down for six weeks every three months indefinitely?

People who advocate hard lockdowns are inevitably on the public payroll have suffered nothing - Vic. Public Servants just got a pay rise to rub your noses in it. Vic PS Payrise July 2020
There are a number of reports on Sweden's approach to Covid-19 not many make the bold claim as the above author that it is clear it is a success.

Many/most say it is still far to early to know yet, but currently from a medical point of view Sweden is a failure of comparable neighbouring countries. Of the comparable countries the economic comparison can not be made as the data is not yet available to compare, they say comparing Sweden economy with the EU is disproportionate as tourism is not a large part of the economy unlike Italy and others.

Other points made are August is pretty much a shut down month in Sweden, it takes 70% for heard immunity (Sweden may have 20%), and the myth Sweden did not shut down anything or have much in the way of restrictions. Sweden did have restrictions, mask recommendations, travel restrictions and restaurants and bars close or reduce hours BUT mostly as recommendations (that they mostly followed).

I am not sure your advocate claim is correct.
Bend alot is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.