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Old 16th Nov 2020, 07:09
  #2061 (permalink)  
 
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Spot on Doctor, I agree with you with this one.

Australia has dodged a bullet (somewhat accidentally at a National level) in almost eliminating COVID.

Letís keep dodging that bullet.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 07:12
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Thereís a real question that needs to be asked.

The two significant outbreaks in Australia (Melbourne and now Adelaide) have come as a result of international arrival hotel quarantine breakouts. Regardless of procedures used itís too much of a risk to house arrivals in hotels in the middle of major cities and allow workers at the hotel and dealing with the arrivals to be in the same environment and then wander freely around these packed cities on their time off.

Unless we want to have this problem continue to re-occur over the next 12 months, itís time to lobby the Federal Government to direct all arrivals to remote facilities (ie Alice Springs or Christmas Island) or have them in full facilities/camps on the outskirts of major cities with a requirement for staff dealing with them to themselves be housed in that facility for the duration of their employment.

Otherwise all of us wonít be able to handle this lack of certainty over the next 12 months.
Fully Agree...however that would require the Feds to do something, other than hand over control to the states and then stand back as issues unfold.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 07:47
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apparently lots of false positives with testing.

Forget about cases. Cases don't mean deaths in general population.

We must reopen all borders now.

What else are we going to do ? Open & close them everytime we get a few cases in next 10 years ?

No one knows if vaccines will actually work or have no long term side effects.

This video gives an interesting view on the whole corona con job

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy3t...ature=youtu.be

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Old 16th Nov 2020, 08:20
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Thereís a real question that needs to be asked.

The two significant outbreaks in Australia (Melbourne and now Adelaide) have come as a result of international arrival hotel quarantine breakouts. Regardless of procedures used itís too much of a risk to house arrivals in hotels in the middle of major cities and allow workers at the hotel and dealing with the arrivals to be in the same environment and then wander freely around these packed cities on their time off.

Unless we want to have this problem continue to re-occur over the next 12 months, itís time to lobby the Federal Government to direct all arrivals to remote facilities (ie Alice Springs or Christmas Island) or have them in full facilities/camps on the outskirts of major cities with a requirement for staff dealing with them to themselves be housed in that facility for the duration of their employment.

Otherwise all of us wonít be able to handle this lack of certainty over the next 12 months.
Plenty of camping available at Alice. Pitch a tent under the wing of a A380. Drink beer watch the cricket on your device. Wacko 2 weeks of star gazing the milky way.
NT version of Birdsville races flyin.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 08:55
  #2065 (permalink)  

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It's such a pity that this has degenerated into an argument based on Political persuasion rather than objective debate. There'd be very few people who would be able to say they avoided going down this path.

The posturing & point scoring makes it sound like we've beaten COVID and are in the Post Mortem of the crisis, not in a Seasonal lull.
Originally Posted by chookcooker View Post
in fact do a bar graph of aged care deaths by state and make sure to leave a tonne of room on the y axis for when you get to Victoria.
Not hard to find. https://www.health.gov.au/resources/...sidential-care

What is hard to find, is accurate & consistent data on the Vic Gov websites. There's either 180 or 159 PSRAC facilities in Vic out of a total of 768 facilities, depending on the website.

We're debating without all the data.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 09:10
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Originally Posted by Potsie Weber View Post
My wife is a front line COVID health care worker. So she should be packed up and sent off to the desert for the next 12mths or so away from family, friends and a normal life, just so you can ďhandle this lack of certaintyĒ a bit better.
Well obviously there is a weak point, and thatís the hotel quarantine for international travellers and the staff who work in them. Itís going to cause rolling shut down after shut down with no end in sight unless a different approach is taken.

It may have to be a move to a secure facility. Staff could work a roster similar to FIFO workers, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks quarantine, 2 weeks off. If mining FIFO workers can do it then healthcare staff can too. It should only be for a year or so. Yep itíll be costly, but nowhere near the cost of the breakouts from hotel quarantine in major cities and the ongoing uncertainty with travel thatíll cause. A lot of airline and other employees are out of work and wonít get back to work until this nationwide problem is sorted.

So itís time for the Federal government to get their act together, if they have to offer big $$$ to get the staff (just like how mining companies pay cooks and cleaners big $$$ to stay in remote mining camps for weeks on end) so be it. The overall cost to taxpayers will be less than these constant major city breakouts.

Unless someone has a better approach? Because the current system clearly isnít working.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 09:19
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With so many unemployed, and hotel quarantine jobs clearly in hot demand, why not only employ people from single person households?
These ďlarge familiesĒ quickly spreading the virus are ridiculous.
PC and equal opportunity crap and all that can get stuffed.

Yes, single people will still mix with outsiders, but to nowhere near the same extent as a crammed household, including kids and the elderly (which of course were living in this outbreak household..)

Itís insane that this infected person is living in a big household, with family members in several other high risk fields.
Employing single people would drastically lower the likelihood of the virus jumping from the hotel worker, and at very least would buy time between the initial detection of the returned traveller and the worker spreading it to others.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 09:26
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Originally Posted by TimmyTee View Post
Emp,lying single people would drastically lower the likelihood of the virus jumping from the hotel worker, and at very least would buy time between the initial detection of the returned traveller and the worker spreading it to others.
I think the amount of available qualified staff who are single and live alone would be very small. They still would have to buy food and do all the other necessities of modern life which involve coming into contact with others and potentially risk the spread of the virus.

Maybe even if we relocated the quarantine hotels to more remote cities or ones with less connecting flights to other state capitals. Maybe a Townsville or Rockhampton instead of Brisbane? A Mildura instead of Melbourne or Adelaide? Although I think a fully remote option like Christmas Island, maybe Curtin, maybe Alice Springs?? Time to activate some of the military bases in the north perhaps? Anythingís better than the CBD of all our major cities and the harm to our national economy that occurs when a breakout inevitably occurs.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 09:47
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I wonder if the lack of attendance recording in pubs, restaurants and numerous other public areas will come back to bite the South Australian government.
On a 4-day trip to Adelaide 4 weekends ago we weren't once asked to record our attendance.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 09:59
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Originally Posted by GaryGnu View Post
As the tie breaker in case of a 50-50 split.
yes I know but old mate either intentionally or unintentionally insinuated he/she held an aditional vote. Was seeking to clarify their understanding


basically the VP vote is moot if either party holds the senate apart from exceptional circumstances
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 10:06
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Originally Posted by Buster Hyman View Post
It's such a pity that this has degenerated into an argument based on Political persuasion rather than objective debate. There'd be very few people who would be able to say they avoided going down this path.

The posturing & point scoring makes it sound like we've beaten COVID and are in the Post Mortem of the crisis, not in a Seasonal lull.

Not hard to find. https://www.health.gov.au/resources/...sidential-care

What is hard to find, is accurate & consistent data on the Vic Gov websites. There's either 180 or 159 PSRAC facilities in Vic out of a total of 768 facilities, depending on the website.

We're debating without all the data.
absoultely.
however, again, when choosing my last slice of Swiss cheese Il go with the ADF over unemployed nobodies after a 5 minute whatsapp interview.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 10:10
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
I think the amount of available qualified staff who are single and live alone would be very small. They still would have to buy food and do all the other necessities of modern life which involve coming into contact with others and potentially risk the spread of the virus.

Maybe even if we relocated the quarantine hotels to more remote cities or ones with less connecting flights to other state capitals. Maybe a Townsville or Rockhampton instead of Brisbane? A Mildura instead of Melbourne or Adelaide? Although I think a fully remote option like Christmas Island, maybe Curtin, maybe Alice Springs?? Time to activate some of the military bases in the north perhaps? Anything’s better than the CBD of all our major cities and the harm to our national economy that occurs when a breakout inevitably occurs.
This has been suggested many times by many people. In fact the government has been provided many different solutions from many different private enterprises, not dissimilar to the Howard Springs set up. However the government and DFAT say they have it all under control.

Until the general public realise how desperate the plight of the Aussie overseas is there will be little change.

This latest Adelaide thing is??? Let’s hope State of Origin is ‘safe’.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 10:24
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Originally Posted by Global Aviator View Post
This has been suggested many times by many people. In fact the government has been provided many different solutions from many different private enterprises, not dissimilar to the Howard Springs set up. However the government and DFAT say they have it all under controlí.
Itís not so much the Feds saying they have it under control, itís the fact theyíve thrown it to state governments at the current border openings (4/5 major city airports) and the states have take the easiest option for them, bus them to a hotel in the city and hope that a staff member doesnít spread the big. Hasnít worked twice now.

Usually governments are shamed into action. The pressure has to be put back on the Federal Government to take responsibility for quarantining international arrivals in secure remote locations. What will it cost? Tens of millions? A few hundred million? Current cost of one hotel quarantine breakout in Victoria - 7 to 9 billion. Willing to have a few more of those over the next year?
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 10:31
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C441 - It's also not just the recording.

A couple of weeks ago I was in a state with no recent COVID history where I was eating breakfast outside and the waitress came around and proffered me the clipboard and pen onto which I was to write my name for contact tracing.

I duly complied, and commented somewhat wryly, "What with the same pen all the everyone else has used?" She looked at me blankly, and I said again. She had no idea what I was on about.

The most dangerous states in Aus for an outbreak are the ones where the public - luckily - has not had to be worried about the virus transmission and don't know how to take the most simple precautions. Go to hotels around the rest of the world these days and there is a pile of new clean pens and a basket of used pens at reception. No it's not perfect but it's another 90% barrier. No menus at restaurants either - all QR. Another layer reducing transmission.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 10:38
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Dr,

Wouldnt the problem be that there are not that many places for the Feds to put the returning Aussies.And whilst I would have excepted a Van, or a tent in the Desert, I am very sure that the average overseas Aussie returnee would not, at least without a whinge and then a very supportive public outcry regarding a minimum standard of a 5 star hotel.

And even there lays the problem...a tent or Van in the desert would have to be on ground that is generally under control of a State or territory, not the Feds..

MANUS Island perhaps...but imagine the scream from the left about that...just like when Xmas Island was used for returnees from China.

Solution...mmm not from this forum I think, as as great as we are at solving problems......Constitutional change is a huge step outside our gambit.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 10:53
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Well obviously there is a weak point, and thatís the hotel quarantine for international travellers and the staff who work in them. Itís going to cause rolling shut down after shut down with no end in sight unless a different approach is taken.

It may have to be a move to a secure facility. Staff could work a roster similar to FIFO workers, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks quarantine, 2 weeks off. If mining FIFO workers can do it then healthcare staff can too. It should only be for a year or so. Yep itíll be costly, but nowhere near the cost of the breakouts from hotel quarantine in major cities and the ongoing uncertainty with travel thatíll cause. A lot of airline and other employees are out of work and wonít get back to work until this nationwide problem is sorted.

So itís time for the Federal government to get their act together, if they have to offer big $$$ to get the staff (just like how mining companies pay cooks and cleaners big $$$ to stay in remote mining camps for weeks on end) so be it. The overall cost to taxpayers will be less than these constant major city breakouts.

Unless someone has a better approach? Because the current system clearly isnít working.
No! Passing the problem off to someone else or somewhere else is not the answer. Everyone has to do their bit until there is widespread vaccination and immunity. It is so unfair and un-Australian to see this attitude endemic in our society. Moderate social distancing with hyper vigilance and strict contact tracing ability is how we can all live together in this environment and stymie outbreaks before they become widespread. Itís not that hard and all it takes is a few sensible measures that EVEYBODY abides by.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 11:10
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Originally Posted by Potsie Weber View Post
Itís not that hard and all it takes is a few sensible measures that EVEYBODY abides by.
And therein lies OUR problem
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 11:36
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Originally Posted by C441 View Post
I wonder if the lack of attendance recording in pubs, restaurants and numerous other public areas will come back to bite the South Australian government.
On a 4-day trip to Adelaide 4 weekends ago we weren't once asked to record our attendance.
complacency may be what blows the flames on this outbreak, and itís something that a few certain premiers may need to learn a thing or 2 from.
2 in particular have been sprouting garbage that theyíve been keeping their states COVID free by slamming the borders shut - this in turn leads to complacency which shows in testing numbers, adherence to social distancing, tracing etc.

This whole Adelaide cluster only surfaced because an 80 year old showed up at the ER and then got tested there as part of normal hospital procedure. Iím assuming that means there were days of worsening symptoms with no tests up until the point that a trip to the ER was needed.
Contrast that with Sydney where 20,000 + are turning out daily for tests on advice that thereís traces of covid in the sewerage.
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 19:52
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Queen P must be frothing at the mouth today that she slammed the border shut. Seeing QLD is only capable of making one decision a month we will reconvene 26th December or will they be taking the public holiday off?
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Old 16th Nov 2020, 20:58
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And then there's Gladys - Still keeping her economy going while not shoving a pineapple up the asre of every CrowEater by leaving the borders to SA open...
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