VirginBlue Roster
Join Date: Oct 1998
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Well Put me down sick, you need to have some inside knowledge to pass some of the comments you have made and expect to be taken to seriously. Sure aircraft deliveries are planned way in advance. PLANNED being the operative word. What actually happens in some cases is that new aircraft don't leave Seattle or wherever they are coming from exactly on the day they were PLANNED to and then most of our aircraft seem to go through Christchurch for winglet modifications these days and they don't always get done by the PLANNED day and so a schedule that is PLANNED in advance around an aircraft delivery may just have to be rearranged at late notice to accomodate these UNPLANNED delays. And believe it or not UNPLANNED delays occur with scheduled maintenance as well. It's all part of life in the aviation universe.
As for speaking to each other at VB it goes reletively well considering the magnitude of growth (something like 120%) in fleet size and changes within the various departments that have occurred in the last year or so. I have seen a lot worse at places where nothing has changed in years.
As for speaking to each other at VB it goes reletively well considering the magnitude of growth (something like 120%) in fleet size and changes within the various departments that have occurred in the last year or so. I have seen a lot worse at places where nothing has changed in years.
Last edited by sprucegoose; 25th Aug 2002 at 13:08.
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I've just read this thread from start to finish and wow! What started off as a really simple question has turned out a whole heap of dirty washing..... Now, I wonder where I've heard this all before....
Ansett Australia, Tasman Pacific NZ, Air NZ, Qantas, etc, etc.
Wonder if there's any common factor in the current state of those airlines and the people who work in them......Life's crappy in any job; that's a given. The trick is to make the best of it, get on with it and get over it! Remember what it was like to get paid REALLY bad money when you were instructing??? Remember all those REALLY crappy nights flying cargo up and down the country in thunderstorms in a light piston twin? Think really hard and I'm sure all those memories will come back.
This forum is about posting OPINIONS, and I believe that the majority of people do exactly that. Don't beat them up for doing what the forum is designed to do. I feel that some of the posting authors need to go away and either go for a very long walk, or have a few stiff drinks to calm their tempers, nerves or general disposition!
The only rule of thumb that I think we all have to remember is that there are alot of us out there that got shafted recently; either by AN Australia or TP NZ - and who are still looking for jobs. We are experienced, good pilots who are still out of work because of circumstances out of our control. If things are that tough in VB (or any other airline for that matter), come and swap jobs.... I'm sure pouring concrete for 8 hours a day followed closely by a 6 hour shift at the local supermarket packing shelves will readjust your attitude towards the industry and job you took on a very long time ago because of the love of the whole package!
Take a very long look at life in general, guys and girls - bet you five bucks it's not that bad..........
Join Date: Nov 2001
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My 2 bobs worth;
The CAO48 exemption I used to work under gave Ops the opportunity to shaft you wherever and whenever it was convenient for them, because of the long duty periods and short rest periods available to them. They will always take the easy way out and a rostering protocol is just that, a protocol, it is not set in stone and the 48 exemption always ends up being the law.
With all due respect to Spruce, he, unlike myself, worked in a base that had very few different flights and therefore less scope to be screwed around.( actually, 3 from memory )
The other thing about current CAO48 exemptions is, that bunch of softcox at CASA have relaxed the need for a Fatigue Management system, so you become your own fatigue manager after you decide that 5 pre 0500 starts is enough, when they throw in a 11 hour duty to top it off on the 6th day. Only problem is you then have to use a sick day or go to work dog tired.
Oh yeh, and, what Gaunty said.
The CAO48 exemption I used to work under gave Ops the opportunity to shaft you wherever and whenever it was convenient for them, because of the long duty periods and short rest periods available to them. They will always take the easy way out and a rostering protocol is just that, a protocol, it is not set in stone and the 48 exemption always ends up being the law.
With all due respect to Spruce, he, unlike myself, worked in a base that had very few different flights and therefore less scope to be screwed around.( actually, 3 from memory )
The other thing about current CAO48 exemptions is, that bunch of softcox at CASA have relaxed the need for a Fatigue Management system, so you become your own fatigue manager after you decide that 5 pre 0500 starts is enough, when they throw in a 11 hour duty to top it off on the 6th day. Only problem is you then have to use a sick day or go to work dog tired.
Oh yeh, and, what Gaunty said.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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The CAO48 Exemption is only worth considering if you get paid overtime above a certain number of hours. Typically 55 hrs/mth.
With no overtime payment, you can (will) work your ring off, to the employers advantage, for no extra pay.
Why do that, when some Australian pilot's are already among the lowest paid in the world?
With no overtime payment, you can (will) work your ring off, to the employers advantage, for no extra pay.
Why do that, when some Australian pilot's are already among the lowest paid in the world?
Join Date: Apr 2001
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VirginBlue Roster
If you read the definition of "roster" in the VirginBlue EBA then be rest assured that VB have nothing that could seriously be called a roster. Trouble is that VB can't accept any constructive critic over their operation and believe me one could fill hours doing just that.
The old line sprucegoose uses about things are changing is not unlike old smelly cheese. Fact is crewing use as a rostering tool perpetual excuses for not rostering the way a bona fide airline does. As for 50-80 hours per month.....get real spruce. That may appear on the planned roster if you happen to have 2 weeks leave, however you can fully expect cancelled leave and a REQUIREMENT to work on days off when called by crewing. Don't forget the cancelled leave during the "CRISIS" raby jumped up and down about, turned out to be one flight per day to Mt Isa, hardly justification for cancelling all leave, again another rostering tool to get the flights covered as a result of insufficient crews due to unwillingnes to put hand in pocket and employ the necessary pilots. As for CAO 48 being inefficient.....take your hand off it spruce. The boffins on level 12 where shown by those with more than 5 minutes real experience how to roster effectively under 48, problem was too many ego's hurt as the so called experts in commercial where shown to be what they really are.....spurts.
For those wanting to pursue a career at VB be warned...its no career but a good place for jellybacks, losers and old has beens.
The old line sprucegoose uses about things are changing is not unlike old smelly cheese. Fact is crewing use as a rostering tool perpetual excuses for not rostering the way a bona fide airline does. As for 50-80 hours per month.....get real spruce. That may appear on the planned roster if you happen to have 2 weeks leave, however you can fully expect cancelled leave and a REQUIREMENT to work on days off when called by crewing. Don't forget the cancelled leave during the "CRISIS" raby jumped up and down about, turned out to be one flight per day to Mt Isa, hardly justification for cancelling all leave, again another rostering tool to get the flights covered as a result of insufficient crews due to unwillingnes to put hand in pocket and employ the necessary pilots. As for CAO 48 being inefficient.....take your hand off it spruce. The boffins on level 12 where shown by those with more than 5 minutes real experience how to roster effectively under 48, problem was too many ego's hurt as the so called experts in commercial where shown to be what they really are.....spurts.
For those wanting to pursue a career at VB be warned...its no career but a good place for jellybacks, losers and old has beens.
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Hey --bone------, thanx for the insight at VB , w/out the b/s!seems to be a lot of HYPE surrounding this outfit. i'm an old loser myself, but not too sure about the "jellyback". Confirm this is a close relative of the sycophant (or to put it more crudely, the ass-licker! The incidence of this species seems to be on the increase in todays industry.
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Leave wasn't "cancelled". People were asked to volunteer.
The rostering protocol needs to be embodied in the EBA and then it will be binding....as much as anything else is in an EBA.
Bonecollector, I am quite sure nobody has come out of the woodwork and shown anyone a better way to do the rostering. I belive you are being misled by someone. Are you confusing "help" with someone that barges in to the rostering area and demands to know why their roster doesn't contain all of their personal requests and points out how THEIR roster could have been better suited to their personal needs?
The rostering protocol needs to be embodied in the EBA and then it will be binding....as much as anything else is in an EBA.
Bonecollector, I am quite sure nobody has come out of the woodwork and shown anyone a better way to do the rostering. I belive you are being misled by someone. Are you confusing "help" with someone that barges in to the rostering area and demands to know why their roster doesn't contain all of their personal requests and points out how THEIR roster could have been better suited to their personal needs?
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Settle down BONER.
You have obviously had a rough ride at Virgin. Yeh things have a long way to go to be spot on (although they will never be spot on for some, no matter how many balls the boss juggles at once). The airline is only 2 years old and growing reasonably fast. That is not an excuse that will last much longer but I think we should get things in some kind of perspective mate.
I'm not all that old, I can squat a couple of hundred kilos in the gym, so I suppose that means I am not a "jelly back", so I guess I must be a loser. I'm a loser flying brand new a/c all over the easiest country in the world to fly in. I have very few hassles with bad weather, most of the guys I fly with are not out to kill me (i.e. they have a reasonable amount of experience) and the chicks are gorgeous albeit a little full of themselves at times. Jaysus life is pretty bluddy tough jack!
Yeh I want more money and a better roster. I will save my protestations/inputs for the EBA meetings. If I like what they are putting forward I will vote YES, if not I will vote NO! Even a moron like me can understand that simple concept. Virgin is still evolving and has a way to go yet but give it some time mate. Relax, get laid, do something enjoyable. Please don't take your pent up frustration to work.
Things will eventually get much better if we are half smart about this.
To all you people considering applying to Virgin. I would like to give you another perspective in addition to the above.
1. New a/c. i.e Brand new!!
2. Most of the people you fly with are great both on the flight deck and after work in the pub for a beer.
3. Generally hassle free weather.
4. Money is average.
5. Rosters need a bit of work but are getting better.
6. Tons of potential for further growth both here and o/s.
7. All in all not a bad job.
Hope that provides a little balance.
You have obviously had a rough ride at Virgin. Yeh things have a long way to go to be spot on (although they will never be spot on for some, no matter how many balls the boss juggles at once). The airline is only 2 years old and growing reasonably fast. That is not an excuse that will last much longer but I think we should get things in some kind of perspective mate.
I'm not all that old, I can squat a couple of hundred kilos in the gym, so I suppose that means I am not a "jelly back", so I guess I must be a loser. I'm a loser flying brand new a/c all over the easiest country in the world to fly in. I have very few hassles with bad weather, most of the guys I fly with are not out to kill me (i.e. they have a reasonable amount of experience) and the chicks are gorgeous albeit a little full of themselves at times. Jaysus life is pretty bluddy tough jack!
Yeh I want more money and a better roster. I will save my protestations/inputs for the EBA meetings. If I like what they are putting forward I will vote YES, if not I will vote NO! Even a moron like me can understand that simple concept. Virgin is still evolving and has a way to go yet but give it some time mate. Relax, get laid, do something enjoyable. Please don't take your pent up frustration to work.
Things will eventually get much better if we are half smart about this.
To all you people considering applying to Virgin. I would like to give you another perspective in addition to the above.
1. New a/c. i.e Brand new!!
2. Most of the people you fly with are great both on the flight deck and after work in the pub for a beer.
3. Generally hassle free weather.
4. Money is average.
5. Rosters need a bit of work but are getting better.
6. Tons of potential for further growth both here and o/s.
7. All in all not a bad job.
Hope that provides a little balance.
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Gees shakespeare, a moron and a loser ?, you really have some self esteem issues 
It's easy for op's/rostering staff to cry " whining pilots " when for the most part, they know exaclty what they are doing, work wise, each week. Try having any sort of life when your roster gets changed significantly and often, and you may get an idea why some of that whining happens.
It's easy for op's/rostering staff to cry " whining pilots " when for the most part, they know exaclty what they are doing, work wise, each week. Try having any sort of life when your roster gets changed significantly and often, and you may get an idea why some of that whining happens.
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Will
Are you having EBA meetings? What input is being put forward? How does a vote work on input or did you mean that you will vote 'No' for the EBA final draft if you don't like it?
If it is voted down do you know what the implications are?
For the company - status quo.
For the pilots - status quo (without any payrises, even CPI).
Forewarned is forearmed.
If it is voted down do you know what the implications are?
For the company - status quo.
For the pilots - status quo (without any payrises, even CPI).
Forewarned is forearmed.
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Shakespeare,
I note your post, and take issue with a couple of points.
Squat a couple of hundred kilos?? bull****!!
Money is average?? Average for third world maybe.
They may be a great bunch at work, and even after work to have a beer with? On those salaries, you can't afford to drink beer, especially at somewhere like the Radisson.
The thing I do agree with is the point on the tea ladies. Hostitutes don't change the world over - they're all full of themselves, and think they're something they're not - they do, after all, only serve the drinks.
I note your post, and take issue with a couple of points.
Squat a couple of hundred kilos?? bull****!!
Money is average?? Average for third world maybe.
They may be a great bunch at work, and even after work to have a beer with? On those salaries, you can't afford to drink beer, especially at somewhere like the Radisson.
The thing I do agree with is the point on the tea ladies. Hostitutes don't change the world over - they're all full of themselves, and think they're something they're not - they do, after all, only serve the drinks.
For Kristsakes...
We, particularly Captains, are in the top 5% of wage earners in Australia.
You want to talk about 3rd world wages - find out what the guys flying 737's for Polynesian and Air Pacific are earning! - and then take the tax and accom out of the equation - they can't afford to drink at the bar.
Would I like more money - yes.
Do we deserve more money -yes
but are we the poor downtrodden - hardly.
You want crap money go and fly in GA and see what crap really is.
Get some reality into this discussion
We, particularly Captains, are in the top 5% of wage earners in Australia.
You want to talk about 3rd world wages - find out what the guys flying 737's for Polynesian and Air Pacific are earning! - and then take the tax and accom out of the equation - they can't afford to drink at the bar.
Would I like more money - yes.
Do we deserve more money -yes
but are we the poor downtrodden - hardly.
You want crap money go and fly in GA and see what crap really is.
Get some reality into this discussion
We Captains
Don`t pull the old Go Back To GA line,entirely inappropriate for a professional airline pilot.
Check the ATO figures too.Don`t forget this is not telling the real story of wealth in this country-cash econony and small business etc.
60 odd K,20K borrowed for an endorsement is a raw deal for an F/O.Your conditions the lowest of Australian RPT jet pilots by a country mile.I`m glad you feel warm and fuzzy compared to South Pacific airlines.
VB has a bright future,VB pilots deserve a comparable wage.
Some say it`s totally appropriate that VB pilots entered the stage undercutting the industry only to now find,as evidenced by this thread,they maybe stuck with lowly conditions.
I still say good luck,as your wages affect us all.
Don`t pull the old Go Back To GA line,entirely inappropriate for a professional airline pilot.
Check the ATO figures too.Don`t forget this is not telling the real story of wealth in this country-cash econony and small business etc.
60 odd K,20K borrowed for an endorsement is a raw deal for an F/O.Your conditions the lowest of Australian RPT jet pilots by a country mile.I`m glad you feel warm and fuzzy compared to South Pacific airlines.
VB has a bright future,VB pilots deserve a comparable wage.
Some say it`s totally appropriate that VB pilots entered the stage undercutting the industry only to now find,as evidenced by this thread,they maybe stuck with lowly conditions.
I still say good luck,as your wages affect us all.
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It sounds very much like the honey moon is over. Pretty girls with attitude and shiney brand new jets, which after a week are old again, means **** when you compare it to life style.
The money is OK if you compare it to a school teacher BUT a school teacher doesn't spen 13 nights a month away from their family, simchecks and medicals every yr!!
A QF baggae person earns more than a VB F/O and almost as much as a VB Captain. A QF F/A earns more than a VB F/O.
I don't think a pohm witha big mouth ( and a billion $$$ in his pocket) will be able to convince you guys that you should take it up the arse, for the good of the company for too much longer even spruce duck has too wake up and smell the roses sooner or later and realise that life style is more important than sucking up to the boss for recognition and get a real job or demand real conditions than his current one!
VB has catered for a bunch of out of work ANSETT pilots, pilots who want to return home, GA guys and dreamers who initially would accept these conditions. I don't think a $50 bonus at the end of the year, whoopy, makes up for the $100,000 below equivalant airlines year round. I can't see you guys accepting those condition for the rest of your lives. You may as well be O/S earning good money as spending 13 days a month in ****ty little hotels for 10 hrs and then back in the jockey seat.
Time will tell
The money is OK if you compare it to a school teacher BUT a school teacher doesn't spen 13 nights a month away from their family, simchecks and medicals every yr!!
A QF baggae person earns more than a VB F/O and almost as much as a VB Captain. A QF F/A earns more than a VB F/O.
I don't think a pohm witha big mouth ( and a billion $$$ in his pocket) will be able to convince you guys that you should take it up the arse, for the good of the company for too much longer even spruce duck has too wake up and smell the roses sooner or later and realise that life style is more important than sucking up to the boss for recognition and get a real job or demand real conditions than his current one!
VB has catered for a bunch of out of work ANSETT pilots, pilots who want to return home, GA guys and dreamers who initially would accept these conditions. I don't think a $50 bonus at the end of the year, whoopy, makes up for the $100,000 below equivalant airlines year round. I can't see you guys accepting those condition for the rest of your lives. You may as well be O/S earning good money as spending 13 days a month in ****ty little hotels for 10 hrs and then back in the jockey seat.
Time will tell
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airbrake42
Sucking up to the bosses? Really.
Oh, and where did I say I thought we didn't deserve more money? A lot of you jokers need to get off the hooch before you respond to a thread. If you can't accurately state a fact when it is all here is "writing" it's no wonder some of you have off the wall ideas.
And as for the pretty girls, well a FEW have attitudes. Most are very pleasant. There are more "attitudes" from pilots on THIS thread alone than in the whole FA department at VB.
As for my lifestyle you're right, it is important. My lifestyle is fantastic thank you very much and you would be the last person on earth to make that judgement on my behalf. Funny how you seem to be so much more miserable than I am!
Sucking up to the bosses? Really.
Oh, and where did I say I thought we didn't deserve more money? A lot of you jokers need to get off the hooch before you respond to a thread. If you can't accurately state a fact when it is all here is "writing" it's no wonder some of you have off the wall ideas.
And as for the pretty girls, well a FEW have attitudes. Most are very pleasant. There are more "attitudes" from pilots on THIS thread alone than in the whole FA department at VB.
As for my lifestyle you're right, it is important. My lifestyle is fantastic thank you very much and you would be the last person on earth to make that judgement on my behalf. Funny how you seem to be so much more miserable than I am!
Last edited by sprucegoose; 1st Sep 2002 at 02:17.
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Let's CHILL
It's been a while since my last post, but it's nice to see nothing has changed.
Skimming through a few of these posts, i'm assuming the majority were posted by the male species...yes????
Well guys this amount of biting and scatching is kinda yukki.
In my opinion, i appreciate the opinion of SPRUCEGOOSE. and his very diplomatic opinion. It is his perogative to think what he thinks and express it in ways he prefers
I know there have been a majority who have debated with him regarding some ''letter''(which im dieing to know the contents)...but he is a minority who appreciates what he has and where he's at. Lets face it guys, you are living in your home country in a job thats very hard to obtain...why don't you be grateful or move on, and allow the others who would sell their soul to be in the seat that you're given.
Skimming through a few of these posts, i'm assuming the majority were posted by the male species...yes????
Well guys this amount of biting and scatching is kinda yukki.
In my opinion, i appreciate the opinion of SPRUCEGOOSE. and his very diplomatic opinion. It is his perogative to think what he thinks and express it in ways he prefers
I know there have been a majority who have debated with him regarding some ''letter''(which im dieing to know the contents)...but he is a minority who appreciates what he has and where he's at. Lets face it guys, you are living in your home country in a job thats very hard to obtain...why don't you be grateful or move on, and allow the others who would sell their soul to be in the seat that you're given.
E-T
Your too beautiful for us.Wasn`t you at Ninbin today reading Tarot?
Traditionally in airlines, 5% of pilots do 90% of the fornicating.These 5% giving pilots a terrible reputation amongst the Flight Attendants.
Same same at Virgin Blue?
If so is Sprucey in the top 5%?
Your too beautiful for us.Wasn`t you at Ninbin today reading Tarot?
Traditionally in airlines, 5% of pilots do 90% of the fornicating.These 5% giving pilots a terrible reputation amongst the Flight Attendants.
Same same at Virgin Blue?
If so is Sprucey in the top 5%?
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Gnadenburg....
You seem like you're in need of a cold shower.
S** is on the mind my dear???
So people of opposite gender cannot be appreciative of each other without having some kind of intimacy??.....another sad case!
You seem like you're in need of a cold shower.
S** is on the mind my dear???
So people of opposite gender cannot be appreciative of each other without having some kind of intimacy??.....another sad case!