VirginBlue Roster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Sydney
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Bloddy hell.
Any of you that are unhappy with your present lot are more than welcome to swap places with me.
I haven't flown, commercially, since 12 Sept 01 after spending 4 months training to fly the CRJ-200 and being cleared to line for a whole 3 weeks before crrrrrrump!!!!
I set myself the unofficial goal of being back doing what I love within 12 months of my last flight. I have 3 weeks left and its not looking good.
The final indignity is being told by the new owner that because I took a jet job, and worked my ass off to pass, I was surplus to requirements.
I know I'm not alone with a ****ty story, but what really gets up my nose are those who bleat, whine and complain because they are forced to live in what would have to be one of the best places on the planet doing the job I would crawl naked over broken glass to get back to. Or worse, accuse someone who is actually happy to tell the world that he enjoys what he is doing of being some sort of management sycophant.
Well done Spruce, I hope you continue to display your present attitude towards the job that you clearly love. I hope to join you there one day.
To the knockers, put your feet where your mouth is and send me line. Just tell me the start date and I'll be there with bells on to swap jobs with you. Nothing makes you realize how good you've had it till it's gone.
Any of you that are unhappy with your present lot are more than welcome to swap places with me.
I haven't flown, commercially, since 12 Sept 01 after spending 4 months training to fly the CRJ-200 and being cleared to line for a whole 3 weeks before crrrrrrump!!!!
I set myself the unofficial goal of being back doing what I love within 12 months of my last flight. I have 3 weeks left and its not looking good.
The final indignity is being told by the new owner that because I took a jet job, and worked my ass off to pass, I was surplus to requirements.
I know I'm not alone with a ****ty story, but what really gets up my nose are those who bleat, whine and complain because they are forced to live in what would have to be one of the best places on the planet doing the job I would crawl naked over broken glass to get back to. Or worse, accuse someone who is actually happy to tell the world that he enjoys what he is doing of being some sort of management sycophant.
Well done Spruce, I hope you continue to display your present attitude towards the job that you clearly love. I hope to join you there one day.
To the knockers, put your feet where your mouth is and send me line. Just tell me the start date and I'll be there with bells on to swap jobs with you. Nothing makes you realize how good you've had it till it's gone.
IsDon
Don`t confuse whinging/whining with people improving their conditions through an EBA.
One day you may benefit.
CRJ conditions weren`t too bad.The result of pilots negotiating.
I here talk of Dragonair and CRJs.Hong Kong and C scale.Only street talk at the moment but if more concrete and your interested,get on the first plane to HK.
A proactive response your best defence against the postSept 11 pilot hoards.
Don`t confuse whinging/whining with people improving their conditions through an EBA.
One day you may benefit.
CRJ conditions weren`t too bad.The result of pilots negotiating.
I here talk of Dragonair and CRJs.Hong Kong and C scale.Only street talk at the moment but if more concrete and your interested,get on the first plane to HK.
A proactive response your best defence against the postSept 11 pilot hoards.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Brisbane, Aust
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Well Spruce I'm sorry to inform you but your view on "The Letter" isn't shared by the majority of the pilot group as you think it is. The letter as mentioned was very well recieved by MOST that I have come into contact with. Whoever penned the letter was spot on in my opinion. Most points raised, you could not argue with, they were undisputed facts. Agreed that there was a bit of emotion involved but do you think that a 73 driver who carries 180 pax should get significantly less pay than a 717 or 146 driver who carries half the number of passenges? Your obvious love of the exemption indicates that you have been spending far too much time in the office. I dont care either way CAO 48 or exemption, but would like to see something in return for giving them what they want,(and 3% just doesn't cut it). It is a fact that the management pilots told the start up guys that the current wage would be raised to match industry standards when the new EBA is negotiated in 2 years. Well times up and they are not coming to the party and to me that would be a pretty bitter pill to swallow for those guys who were told by there mates one thing, and delivered nothing when the time comes. The company should try a little harder to negotiate a fair package for the pilots instaed of trying to screw us to line there own pockets.
Having said all this I still enjoy working for VB because of the great bunch af guys/girls that I fly with. Lets hope the mess is sorted ASAP
Having said all this I still enjoy working for VB because of the great bunch af guys/girls that I fly with. Lets hope the mess is sorted ASAP
Join Date: Oct 1998
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My love of the exemption, if you could call it that, is based on the fact that I wish to fly more hours in a day at work than I currently do and to have more time at home afterwards as a result. I have worked under the exemption, unlike a lot of the objectors, and it can work well for us all if we achieve a protocol for the rostering which VB are willing, in fact have been forthcoming, to resolve.
As for the letter, I can't vouch for what some of the pilots were told when they were hired in the very beginning. I wasn't there then but they are definately a minority. My EBA makes no reference to, or implies, or insinuates, or leans toward suggesting that the conditions we ALL signed up to were in any way temporary. My EBA is exactly the same as every other pilot that has joined VB. Verbal deals are great but at the end of the day pardna you better get it in writing or it isn't worth the paper you wipe yer bum with. And that isn't altogether the fault of the people who made those remarks either.
All work place conditions are indeed negotiable and we should be negotiating for what we think we deserve but the tone of the letter will foster tit for tat ill will and given CC's presence in our company will only set us back in the longer term. I don't argue with the issues, just the method of attack. The approach I am angry about will fail. Period. Play smart boys, not dirty.
As for the letter, I can't vouch for what some of the pilots were told when they were hired in the very beginning. I wasn't there then but they are definately a minority. My EBA makes no reference to, or implies, or insinuates, or leans toward suggesting that the conditions we ALL signed up to were in any way temporary. My EBA is exactly the same as every other pilot that has joined VB. Verbal deals are great but at the end of the day pardna you better get it in writing or it isn't worth the paper you wipe yer bum with. And that isn't altogether the fault of the people who made those remarks either.
All work place conditions are indeed negotiable and we should be negotiating for what we think we deserve but the tone of the letter will foster tit for tat ill will and given CC's presence in our company will only set us back in the longer term. I don't argue with the issues, just the method of attack. The approach I am angry about will fail. Period. Play smart boys, not dirty.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Sprucie, lets face it "the letter" has promoted discussion amongst the ranks when it is needed and as you know hardline tatics get the troops spirits running as it has happened post AN falling over. By the way remember , the "original minority "you speak of trained most of the pilots in DJ and still do.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Have got 6 days reserve this month and already had 3 without a callout. With a lot of training going on (both new captains and FOs) you tend to have a lot of reserves off.
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Spruce.
You do not represent the majority view of the Virgin Blue Pilots as others have posted on this thread !!
Nor were you elected to be a spokesman on the issues affecting pilots at Virgin Blue.
Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion, yours is just that, an opinion, and don't ever presume that the state of euphoria that you feel by working at Virgin Blue is shared by everyone else.
There are important issues to be resolved as the company evolves and the pilots' vote on the EBA will be an important step in the process.
You do not represent the majority view of the Virgin Blue Pilots as others have posted on this thread !!
Nor were you elected to be a spokesman on the issues affecting pilots at Virgin Blue.
Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion, yours is just that, an opinion, and don't ever presume that the state of euphoria that you feel by working at Virgin Blue is shared by everyone else.
There are important issues to be resolved as the company evolves and the pilots' vote on the EBA will be an important step in the process.
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Spruce, Mate, I think you speak well and truely for yourself. I have been with DJ for a hell of a lot longer than you and I can tell you now that I have only come across 1 person who agreed with you and after our conversation he had changed his mind. I don't know where you find all these people who agree with you. You must fly with a different bunch of F/O's. I have not come across 1.
You would have to be ex NJS. No doubt about it.
I don't normally Pprune but after reading all your dribble just couldn't stop myself. You have something to say about everything. Most things you have not idea about but talk about like you have the inside scoop! Well you don't. You don't speak for the majority but the vast minority. you are not involved in the EBA negitiations or have anything to do with setting up bases, or pay or conditions, or rostering, or or or or or. YOu are a line driver and thats it.
We have people in the company with 20 years rostering experience with AN and East West telling us that it can all be done under CAO48. Work harder on the days we fly. No single sectors, extra days off etc but rostering refuse to listen to them and will not allow them to prove it. Let them try and prove it first. If they succeed great. If they fail no harm done. We have been trying to get them in to at least try for 2 years now. Ask yourself, why won't the company allow them to have a go!!!.
Spruce you talk without all the facts.
And to that person who wrote that letter. I just WISH IT WAS ME!!!!!! Good on you.
Spruce, you will of course be turning down any extra money we get or any other benifits that are negotiated seeing that you so love our current EBA. No!! you are one of the snivilling tight arses who allow other to pay for the AFAP to negotiate the EBA and you just sit back and reap the rewards. For FREE!!! Why don't you go and negotiate you own EBA with DJ. There is nothing stopping you. Sign up for the dispensation, work for less, reject the increased bonus and any extra days off.
Bet you won't.
You would have to be ex NJS. No doubt about it.
I don't normally Pprune but after reading all your dribble just couldn't stop myself. You have something to say about everything. Most things you have not idea about but talk about like you have the inside scoop! Well you don't. You don't speak for the majority but the vast minority. you are not involved in the EBA negitiations or have anything to do with setting up bases, or pay or conditions, or rostering, or or or or or. YOu are a line driver and thats it.
We have people in the company with 20 years rostering experience with AN and East West telling us that it can all be done under CAO48. Work harder on the days we fly. No single sectors, extra days off etc but rostering refuse to listen to them and will not allow them to prove it. Let them try and prove it first. If they succeed great. If they fail no harm done. We have been trying to get them in to at least try for 2 years now. Ask yourself, why won't the company allow them to have a go!!!.
Spruce you talk without all the facts.
And to that person who wrote that letter. I just WISH IT WAS ME!!!!!! Good on you.
Spruce, you will of course be turning down any extra money we get or any other benifits that are negotiated seeing that you so love our current EBA. No!! you are one of the snivilling tight arses who allow other to pay for the AFAP to negotiate the EBA and you just sit back and reap the rewards. For FREE!!! Why don't you go and negotiate you own EBA with DJ. There is nothing stopping you. Sign up for the dispensation, work for less, reject the increased bonus and any extra days off.
Bet you won't.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Re Sprucegoose
Gee it's great to see that PPRuNe has lost none of it's vitriol.
Having been a moderator, and having PPRuNed for quite some time I am quite au fait with Spruce's contributions over that past few years.
I have yet to see him claim to be a spokesperson for any group, be it VB or his former employer. He is opinionated, as am I, as are most PPRuNer's. However, he seems better able than some others to argue the point rather than the person.
So, why don't we get back to the topic, rather than trying to beat our chests, pretending to be big men?
Having been a moderator, and having PPRuNed for quite some time I am quite au fait with Spruce's contributions over that past few years.
I have yet to see him claim to be a spokesperson for any group, be it VB or his former employer. He is opinionated, as am I, as are most PPRuNer's. However, he seems better able than some others to argue the point rather than the person.
So, why don't we get back to the topic, rather than trying to beat our chests, pretending to be big men?
Last edited by Dan Kelly; 20th Aug 2002 at 15:07.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Are you guys using ops software that originated in NZ or did they bring software with them from the EU? If its NZ, the rostering is a low cost after thought tacked on to a low cost system in general, probably sold as "in developement". Just a thought......if it's true the rosters may be improved manually. Though a bit like trying to convince someone that it goes better with the autopilot turned off.
Exemptions..........yeah right.
Exemptions..........yeah right.
Join Date: Oct 1998
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Thats an interesting suposition Rubber Chicken. Do you have a theory to put forward as to why....WHY....VB would pursue such an inefficient system of rostering when to do so would be rather costly in terms of the number of crew required to fly the line? When it could be done more efficiently under the current system?? As much as I love my job and the people I work with, probably even you if the truth be known, I don't see VB as a charitable organisation looking to sign up as many crews as they possibly can just to be nice. Tell us all your theory about why they would insist on using CAO 48 inefficiently and to the financial detriment of the company if there was a better way under that system. Is it just to annoy the pilots do you think? In your long and distinguished career in aviation have you ever been happy?
Not sure what NJS has to do with anything in this thread. I wonder what reaction I would get if I drew a long bow and made mention of the prior histories of the likes of you Rubber chook.
Not sure what NJS has to do with anything in this thread. I wonder what reaction I would get if I drew a long bow and made mention of the prior histories of the likes of you Rubber chook.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Sprucie , you choose to miss the chooks point. Rostering dept will not open their eyes to more efficient rostering that can be done under CAO48. I am not in the know myself , but have spoken to those with a lot of previous experience in the days before fancy computer software. Why not listen to their suggestions , there is nothing to lose and maybe something to gain for all concerned
Join Date: Jan 1999
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My theory, Spruce, is that it is being blocked by the fat bloke and his stable of GA cohorts to protect their jobs. They have been insiting all along that they could do this job efficiently, and have been proving all along that they can't. If they allowed one of the guys in who knows what he's doing they figure they would be out of a job. So they employ another 'expert' from Ansett to oversee it all, yet he just sits there and says it can't be done.
They are playing politics.
They are playing politics.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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To all the aspiring new hires at VB and to all of those who would love to join Vb I can only say this of the above ramblings. No matter who you fly with at VB everyone to a man/woman likes the job, everyone to a man/woman would like more money. the letter everyone is talking about contained some very real truths about work conditions and expectations of the early employee's, I have heard it was primarily aimed at the newer pilots in the company who may be willing to sign anything to keep the peace. This is not a reflection on the newer guys and girls just consideration that they might not be as well educated about the EBA process as the rest of us.
hey Sprucie I like your enthusiasim but you really need to calm down a little. At last count i heard we were up to 300 pilots so maybe rather than airing our dirty washing we should try and ensure that we make up for others lack of professionalism with our own.
hey Sprucie I like your enthusiasim but you really need to calm down a little. At last count i heard we were up to 300 pilots so maybe rather than airing our dirty washing we should try and ensure that we make up for others lack of professionalism with our own.