Project Sunrise
Join Date: May 2013
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There is no union vs company in the future if a NO vote is passed......the company won’t be dealing with the union. They won’t have to....they will have a new group of pilots on lower conditions that those offered to boss around.
This is not a hard concept.
Voting based on pure emotion to “stick it to the company’s is just plain stupid.
This is not a hard concept.
Voting based on pure emotion to “stick it to the company’s is just plain stupid.
Best leave it to the experts.
plainmaker: Australia Asia Airlines was set up so services to Taiwan would not offend China. The IATA code for the entity was IM, the ICAO code was AAU, the call sign was Austasia. For all intentional purposes it was a new airline with both a B747SP and a B763. KLM did something similar with KLM Asia as a Taiwan registered subsidiary of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines.
As far a slots are concerned at LHR you can do what you like. I would be surprised if you were not aware QF has leased a pair of slots to BA.
As far a slots are concerned at LHR you can do what you like. I would be surprised if you were not aware QF has leased a pair of slots to BA.
There are a few on here who belong to the 'little knowledge of a heap of topics' as opposed to being a specialist in a specific topic. For the life of me, I could not operate a joystick left or right handed and I reckon I would make a hash of an empty Bandit, but international agreements / contracts are my bread and butter - still working well beyond retirement. That other 'qualified' people might have a different interpretation, well that is what Authorities are for in our adversarial legal system.
Until you face up to management and say NO, they will treat you with contempt that you deserve for not protecting your conditions of service.
A NO vote now will go a long way to curtailing management threats to your Union in the future and provide some element of management respect.
A NO vote now will go a long way to curtailing management threats to your Union in the future and provide some element of management respect
Management don’t care about your feelings.
A350s will arrive or they won’t. Vote yes, and if they do arrive they will be flown by QF pilots on the LHEA, and you don’t have to opt in if you don’t want to. If they don’t arrive you will get 5x3% pay increases (including A350 rates before they even show up) with backpay with very little offset, which is astonishing in the present economic circumstances.
Vote No and I’m certain this all goes away.
In in both cases Management negotiating tactics will remain the same, and an unchanged Australian IR legal environment will all but ensure it.
To all the YES men: Normanton (a probable sufferer of RSI from typing by now); KZ Kiwi (a smug company man); morno (a disrespectful outsider who's probably not even a pilot); Orange Future (say no more) and the others
So unless you're being paid per post by the QF IR machine, why don't you all just give it a rest for a while and let the rest of us mourn in peace. Please????? .
So unless you're being paid per post by the QF IR machine, why don't you all just give it a rest for a while and let the rest of us mourn in peace. Please????? .
I'm just someone who can see the forest for the trees mate. Your legacy condition days are numbered
'm just someone who can see the forest for the trees mate. Your legacy condition days are numbered
On paper it appears that current Max hours become future Min hours. For a start, how is that going to work long term?
I can scarcely believe I am reading this. Have some serious respect for the qualifications and the licences you (seemingly) hold. If you don’t value those and the extremely hard work you put in to get them, no one else will. If you are an HR plant - you might dream of doing a pilots job but it’s not that easy to either get, nor do.
On paper it appears that current Max hours become future Min hours. For a start, how is that going to work long term?
On paper it appears that current Max hours become future Min hours. For a start, how is that going to work long term?
Setting the standard to the rest of the industry is something you guys have plodded out many times over the years. I don’t think it works anymore. The rest of the industry in Australia sets its own rates.
I do value what I have, but I also know that perhaps if you value your fellow pilots, maybe to create more jobs and movement, it’s time to get realistic with your pay and conditions. Just like when Jetstar was created, it created more jobs and movement. You could have taken advantage of it and still gone back to QF when things kicked off there again.
Swallow some pride mate and realise that an A350 is not an A380 (a few SO’s have even posted that they want the movement, not the money).
If I were in QF, I know which way I’d be voting....
Ohh and one other thing. It’s not a hard job, I tell my FO’s that every day. You don’t need a university degree, it’s the equivalent of a trade.
I do it because I enjoy it, but it’s certainly not rocket science. Don’t make yourself look like an idiot by saying it is
It’s far more than a trade Morno. Ask any plumber how he would perform after 24-30 hours without proper sleep. Forget the medicals and mental agility. Joyce failed, it’s not a simple BofA.
Nice to know you haven’t worked at Qf. Be aware that VERY senior pilots are supporting your future. For they have been in your shoes.
Ruprecht - love that post.
Nice to know you haven’t worked at Qf. Be aware that VERY senior pilots are supporting your future. For they have been in your shoes.
Ruprecht - love that post.
Anyway, why are you so interested in this “skygod” thread when you love nothing more than hanging sh1t on us at every chance? Move along now...and if the 350 gets outsourced I’ll be sure to put in a good word for you so you can get back to Oz for a DEC.
Last edited by Transition Layer; 13th Mar 2020 at 13:44.
Or you can make yourself look like an idiot, and cheapen the profession for everyone by calling it a trade. It’s like comparing apples and oranges... I’m not disrespecting all my tradie mates, but they’d also agree it’s an entirely different set of skills required.
Anyway, why are you so interested in this “skygod” thread when you love nothing more than hanging sh1t on us at every chance? Move along now...and if the 350 gets outsourced I’ll be sure to put in a good word for you so you can get back to Oz for a DEC.
Anyway, why are you so interested in this “skygod” thread when you love nothing more than hanging sh1t on us at every chance? Move along now...and if the 350 gets outsourced I’ll be sure to put in a good word for you so you can get back to Oz for a DEC.
Like I said, I really do hope that the A350 stays within Qantas. I don't agree with it being out-sourced one bit. But some of you guys seem to be so obsessed with keeping conditions that aren't realistic anymore, and you're potentially quashing the careers of many.
Any job requires a different set of skills. I still don't think it's a difficult job.
Last edited by morno; 15th Mar 2020 at 11:53.
“Have some serious respect for the qualifications and the licences you (seemingly) hold.”
Respect for an inanimate object?
Your qualifications and licenses are only worth whatever the market is prepared to value them at.
Respect for an inanimate object?
Your qualifications and licenses are only worth whatever the market is prepared to value them at.
V-jet,
Reading your comments it seems to be that your motive is derived from a hatred/jealousy of AJ. If so, you are unable to critically look at the situation and determine what the best course of action for the pilot body is. It also appears that you are looking after numero uno, while pretending to do otherwise. I imagine that unfortunately there are new joiners who are listening to your dialogue and are unable to see that you maybe don't have their best interests at heart.
There seems to be some of the pilot body that are literally living in a bubble, and trying to hold on to the way it was, unable to see how it really is.
Yesterday the 'angry mob' that called the SGM were shown to be exactly what they are - an angry mob with with lots of rhetoric but no understanding of IR, and zero understanding of what is actually playing out. They were embarrassed to the point of being shown to be nothing more than adolescents in an adult world. The behaviour of their 'go to guy,' was appalling, and demonstrated how out of touch they are.
We can all have a cry and sook about how the company has gone about this, but anybody who is deluding themselves that a 'No' vote is the way forward really is living in 'Cloud Cuckoo-land.'
Reading your comments it seems to be that your motive is derived from a hatred/jealousy of AJ. If so, you are unable to critically look at the situation and determine what the best course of action for the pilot body is. It also appears that you are looking after numero uno, while pretending to do otherwise. I imagine that unfortunately there are new joiners who are listening to your dialogue and are unable to see that you maybe don't have their best interests at heart.
There seems to be some of the pilot body that are literally living in a bubble, and trying to hold on to the way it was, unable to see how it really is.
Yesterday the 'angry mob' that called the SGM were shown to be exactly what they are - an angry mob with with lots of rhetoric but no understanding of IR, and zero understanding of what is actually playing out. They were embarrassed to the point of being shown to be nothing more than adolescents in an adult world. The behaviour of their 'go to guy,' was appalling, and demonstrated how out of touch they are.
We can all have a cry and sook about how the company has gone about this, but anybody who is deluding themselves that a 'No' vote is the way forward really is living in 'Cloud Cuckoo-land.'
Last edited by mmmbop; 13th Mar 2020 at 22:46.
Some of you might consider a tree change as being more rewarding than being beaten like a dog.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...armer/12038862
Dan, Jillian and four-year-old Madison have given up many conveniences they enjoyed while living in Brisbane to pursue a simple life as pig farmers at Forbes Creek in southern New South Wales.
"I knew nothing about pigs, I knew nothing about farming," Dan Head said.
A far cry from agriculture, Dan's background was as a pilot first in the Australian Air Force and then for a regional airline.
But when Jillian suffered post-natal depression after Madison's birth, Dan's perspective on life changed.
"Jillian got really sick and was hospitalised," he said.
"It made me realise I wasn't particularly happy with what I was doing, I wanted to do something I felt was a bit more real."
That "something" turned out to be pig farming.
Without any prior farming experience, the family packed up and moved closer to Jillian's family to embark on a simpler way of living.
"As a pilot, I had a pretty decent income, we had a very expensive car, boat, lived in the city doing all sorts of things and didn't really think anything about it.
"I knew nothing about pigs, I knew nothing about farming," Dan Head said.
A far cry from agriculture, Dan's background was as a pilot first in the Australian Air Force and then for a regional airline.
But when Jillian suffered post-natal depression after Madison's birth, Dan's perspective on life changed.
"Jillian got really sick and was hospitalised," he said.
"It made me realise I wasn't particularly happy with what I was doing, I wanted to do something I felt was a bit more real."
That "something" turned out to be pig farming.
Without any prior farming experience, the family packed up and moved closer to Jillian's family to embark on a simpler way of living.
"As a pilot, I had a pretty decent income, we had a very expensive car, boat, lived in the city doing all sorts of things and didn't really think anything about it.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...armer/12038862
Putting it bluntly, we get paid several times the average wage for a job that gives us more days off at home than the average 9-5 or FIFO worker, for a non degree qualified position.
This isn’t understating our responsibilities but we can’t exactly cry poor.