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Old 13th Mar 2020, 03:15
  #1901 (permalink)  
 
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There is no union vs company in the future if a NO vote is passed......the company won’t be dealing with the union. They won’t have to....they will have a new group of pilots on lower conditions that those offered to boss around.

This is not a hard concept.

Voting based on pure emotion to “stick it to the company’s is just plain stupid.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 03:30
  #1902 (permalink)  
 
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Smile Best leave it to the experts.

Originally Posted by B772
plainmaker: Australia Asia Airlines was set up so services to Taiwan would not offend China. The IATA code for the entity was IM, the ICAO code was AAU, the call sign was Austasia. For all intentional purposes it was a new airline with both a B747SP and a B763. KLM did something similar with KLM Asia as a Taiwan registered subsidiary of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines.

As far a slots are concerned at LHR you can do what you like. I would be surprised if you were not aware QF has leased a pair of slots to BA.
Thank you 772 for reminding me what I did back then. It is not just tech crew that wander through this (and other) forums. As to the QF/BA slots - remember when BA owned a substantial part of QF? Most of the Board were either direct BA appointees (or BA influenced their selection). But then, Tubby still had some control. The environment has changed. I alluded before to NZ selling their LHR slot, rather than 'lease' it to the highest bidder. Why, because as I understand it, (and I am aware that NZ has declared that will NOT be going back to LHR via either the USA or HKG EVER), the owners of the airports wanted a clean transaction.

There are a few on here who belong to the 'little knowledge of a heap of topics' as opposed to being a specialist in a specific topic. For the life of me, I could not operate a joystick left or right handed and I reckon I would make a hash of an empty Bandit, but international agreements / contracts are my bread and butter - still working well beyond retirement. That other 'qualified' people might have a different interpretation, well that is what Authorities are for in our adversarial legal system.

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Old 13th Mar 2020, 03:36
  #1903 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlexibleResponse
They will continue with these tactics forever more. That is exactly the Cathay Pacific management bully-boy tactics started in 1994 and they are still getting away with it to this day (in case of doubt, call your mates there to confirm).
The IR laws in Australia are biased in favour of the employer. HK is even worse. You could say that’s a consequence of how society has chosen to evolve over the last few decades. A No vote or PIA will not change that.

Until you face up to management and say NO, they will treat you with contempt that you deserve for not protecting your conditions of service.
The only real way to do that in today’s labour market is to resign and take your skills elsewhere. A combination of home lifestyle, pay, working culture, seniority based promotion and financial security means virtually no one here will do that. Quite a few VA or CX or equivalent pilots have jumped ship to QF in recent years. How many mainline pilots have done the opposite?

A NO vote now will go a long way to curtailing management threats to your Union in the future and provide some element of management respect.
True. Vote No and the flying is outsourced and management won’t have to ever worry about those pesky LH pilots again.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 06:13
  #1904 (permalink)  
 
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Or vote yes, take the backpay, and hope we can ride out the new travel advice. Never been a more uncertain time.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 07:31
  #1905 (permalink)  
 
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A NO vote now will go a long way to curtailing management threats to your Union in the future and provide some element of management respect
It will do no such thing. Vote Yes or No, the tactics will be the same going forward.

Management don’t care about your feelings.

A350s will arrive or they won’t. Vote yes, and if they do arrive they will be flown by QF pilots on the LHEA, and you don’t have to opt in if you don’t want to. If they don’t arrive you will get 5x3% pay increases (including A350 rates before they even show up) with backpay with very little offset, which is astonishing in the present economic circumstances.

Vote No and I’m certain this all goes away.

In in both cases Management negotiating tactics will remain the same, and an unchanged Australian IR legal environment will all but ensure it.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 07:53
  #1906 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Shark Patrol
To all the YES men: Normanton (a probable sufferer of RSI from typing by now); KZ Kiwi (a smug company man); morno (a disrespectful outsider who's probably not even a pilot); Orange Future (say no more) and the others

So unless you're being paid per post by the QF IR machine, why don't you all just give it a rest for a while and let the rest of us mourn in peace. Please????? .
****, maybe I’d better hand my license in then, I’m apparently not a pilot.

I'm just someone who can see the forest for the trees mate. Your legacy condition days are numbered
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 09:44
  #1907 (permalink)  
 
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'm just someone who can see the forest for the trees mate. Your legacy condition days are numbered
I can scarcely believe I am reading this. Have some serious respect for the qualifications and the licences you (seemingly) hold. If you don’t value those and the extremely hard work you put in to get them, no one else will. If you are an HR plant - you might dream of doing a pilots job but it’s not that easy to either get, nor do.

On paper it appears that current Max hours become future Min hours. For a start, how is that going to work long term?




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Old 13th Mar 2020, 10:17
  #1908 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V-Jet
I can scarcely believe I am reading this. Have some serious respect for the qualifications and the licences you (seemingly) hold. If you don’t value those and the extremely hard work you put in to get them, no one else will. If you are an HR plant - you might dream of doing a pilots job but it’s not that easy to either get, nor do.

On paper it appears that current Max hours become future Min hours. For a start, how is that going to work long term?
You didn’t answer my question before. How can you justify the money that is being paid to an SO on an A380?

Setting the standard to the rest of the industry is something you guys have plodded out many times over the years. I don’t think it works anymore. The rest of the industry in Australia sets its own rates.

I do value what I have, but I also know that perhaps if you value your fellow pilots, maybe to create more jobs and movement, it’s time to get realistic with your pay and conditions. Just like when Jetstar was created, it created more jobs and movement. You could have taken advantage of it and still gone back to QF when things kicked off there again.

Swallow some pride mate and realise that an A350 is not an A380 (a few SO’s have even posted that they want the movement, not the money).

If I were in QF, I know which way I’d be voting....

Ohh and one other thing. It’s not a hard job, I tell my FO’s that every day. You don’t need a university degree, it’s the equivalent of a trade.

I do it because I enjoy it, but it’s certainly not rocket science. Don’t make yourself look like an idiot by saying it is
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 10:37
  #1909 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
You didn’t answer my question before. How can you justify the money that is being paid to an SO on an A380?
I was having this exact conversation with my butler just the other day.


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Old 13th Mar 2020, 10:54
  #1910 (permalink)  
 
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It’s far more than a trade Morno. Ask any plumber how he would perform after 24-30 hours without proper sleep. Forget the medicals and mental agility. Joyce failed, it’s not a simple BofA.

Nice to know you haven’t worked at Qf. Be aware that VERY senior pilots are supporting your future. For they have been in your shoes.

Ruprecht - love that post.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 12:43
  #1911 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
Ohh and one other thing. It’s not a hard job, I tell my FO’s that every day. You don’t need a university degree, it’s the equivalent of a trade.

I do it because I enjoy it, but it’s certainly not rocket science. Don’t make yourself look like an idiot by saying it is
Or you can make yourself look like an idiot, and cheapen the profession for everyone by calling it a trade. It’s like comparing apples and oranges... I’m not disrespecting all my tradie mates, but they’d also agree it’s an entirely different set of skills required.

Anyway, why are you so interested in this “skygod” thread when you love nothing more than hanging sh1t on us at every chance? Move along now...and if the 350 gets outsourced I’ll be sure to put in a good word for you so you can get back to Oz for a DEC.

Last edited by Transition Layer; 13th Mar 2020 at 13:44.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 13:38
  #1912 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
Or you can make yourself look like an idiot, and cheapen the profession for everyone by calling it a trade. It’s like comparing apples and oranges... I’m not disrespecting all my tradie mates, but they’d also agree it’s an entirely different set of skills required.

Anyway, why are you so interested in this “skygod” thread when you love nothing more than hanging sh1t on us at every chance? Move along now...and if the 350 gets outsourced I’ll be sure to put in a good word for you so you can get back to Oz for a DEC.
It's a public board isn't it? I'm entitled to an opinion.

Like I said, I really do hope that the A350 stays within Qantas. I don't agree with it being out-sourced one bit. But some of you guys seem to be so obsessed with keeping conditions that aren't realistic anymore, and you're potentially quashing the careers of many.

Any job requires a different set of skills. I still don't think it's a difficult job.

Last edited by morno; 15th Mar 2020 at 11:53.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 14:24
  #1913 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
You don’t need a university degree, it’s the equivalent of a trade.
You're right, it's considerably more expensive and difficult to attain than a university degree.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 19:29
  #1914 (permalink)  
 
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By using their information assymetry advantage to beat up the pilot group in this manner, Qantas is sowing the seeds of its own demise. More later.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 20:28
  #1915 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunfish
By using their information assymetry advantage to beat up the pilot group in this manner, Qantas is sowing the seeds of its own demise. More later.
It's not just that, the COVID-19 will help as well
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 22:23
  #1916 (permalink)  
 
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“Have some serious respect for the qualifications and the licences you (seemingly) hold.”

Respect for an inanimate object?

Your qualifications and licenses are only worth whatever the market is prepared to value them at.

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Old 13th Mar 2020, 22:23
  #1917 (permalink)  
 
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V-jet,

Reading your comments it seems to be that your motive is derived from a hatred/jealousy of AJ. If so, you are unable to critically look at the situation and determine what the best course of action for the pilot body is. It also appears that you are looking after numero uno, while pretending to do otherwise. I imagine that unfortunately there are new joiners who are listening to your dialogue and are unable to see that you maybe don't have their best interests at heart.

There seems to be some of the pilot body that are literally living in a bubble, and trying to hold on to the way it was, unable to see how it really is.

Yesterday the 'angry mob' that called the SGM were shown to be exactly what they are - an angry mob with with lots of rhetoric but no understanding of IR, and zero understanding of what is actually playing out. They were embarrassed to the point of being shown to be nothing more than adolescents in an adult world. The behaviour of their 'go to guy,' was appalling, and demonstrated how out of touch they are.

We can all have a cry and sook about how the company has gone about this, but anybody who is deluding themselves that a 'No' vote is the way forward really is living in 'Cloud Cuckoo-land.'

Last edited by mmmbop; 13th Mar 2020 at 22:46.
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Old 13th Mar 2020, 22:44
  #1918 (permalink)  
 
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Some of you might consider a tree change as being more rewarding than being beaten like a dog.

Dan, Jillian and four-year-old Madison have given up many conveniences they enjoyed while living in Brisbane to pursue a simple life as pig farmers at Forbes Creek in southern New South Wales.

"I knew nothing about pigs, I knew nothing about farming," Dan Head said.

A far cry from agriculture, Dan's background was as a pilot first in the Australian Air Force and then for a regional airline.

But when Jillian suffered post-natal depression after Madison's birth, Dan's perspective on life changed.

"Jillian got really sick and was hospitalised," he said.

"It made me realise I wasn't particularly happy with what I was doing, I wanted to do something I felt was a bit more real."

That "something" turned out to be pig farming.

Without any prior farming experience, the family packed up and moved closer to Jillian's family to embark on a simpler way of living.

"As a pilot, I had a pretty decent income, we had a very expensive car, boat, lived in the city doing all sorts of things and didn't really think anything about it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...armer/12038862
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Old 14th Mar 2020, 00:55
  #1919 (permalink)  
 
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mmmbop any chance you can list what happened at the SGM?

I'm down for a laugh.
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Old 14th Mar 2020, 01:26
  #1920 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunfish
Some of you might consider a tree change as being more rewarding than being beaten like a dog.
On the reverse of that there’s farmers out there who would give farming away in if they were able to and pursue a career as an airline pilot. Agriculture isn’t exactly a walk in the park.

Putting it bluntly, we get paid several times the average wage for a job that gives us more days off at home than the average 9-5 or FIFO worker, for a non degree qualified position.

This isn’t understating our responsibilities but we can’t exactly cry poor.
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