Project Sunrise
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So true, now more than ever is a reason to sit on our hands. Pilots are unable to see through this virus and make a decision. Either QF delay the vote or as dragon says, guarantee the aircraft (which we know they can’t do in this business) or vote NO. It’s time to call ‘unstable’ so let’s go around Vote NO and have a second go when the WX calms down a bit.
Good lucking negotiating the LH EBA 10 renewal with whats happening in the world now. Pay freezes for everyone. I can just see it coming.
When you're playing poker, it can be a winning move to fold when appropriate. Your comments recommend an all in. Unfortunately an all in on this occasion will destroy mainlines future.
Why is anyone considering more work for less money when everyone.knows Alan’s pay will only increase and the bonus pool will only increase?
Despite what you all may think, it IS possible to survive on just $10m a year (ie more than a 50% pay CUT) - without giving away any conditions at all!
ULH flying as well as back of clock 2 man flying is absolutely the worst combination of a working life it’s possible to imagine.
Why would -anyone- want to do that? Aside from taking a pay cut so Alan gets a commensurate pay rise??
Despite what you all may think, it IS possible to survive on just $10m a year (ie more than a 50% pay CUT) - without giving away any conditions at all!
ULH flying as well as back of clock 2 man flying is absolutely the worst combination of a working life it’s possible to imagine.
Why would -anyone- want to do that? Aside from taking a pay cut so Alan gets a commensurate pay rise??
You will be paid more to work more flight hours.
Don't want to do the flying? DON'T OPT IN!
Where did I say they are not coming ? What I said is I would like a guarantee they are coming or else we keep what we have. If you think the virus is a short term hiccup you are even stupider than I thought. Look at the numbers. Watch what happens in Qantas in the next few weeks it will be very ugly.
Where did I say they are not coming ? What I said is I would like a guarantee they are coming or else we keep what we have. If you think the virus is a short term hiccup you are even stupider than I thought. Look at the numbers. Watch what happens in Qantas in the next few weeks it will be very ugly.
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Your comments clearly aim to trick people into thinking that a YES vote doesn't guarantee the 350s will come. That cannot be any further from the truth.
STOP using scare tactics to trick pilots into voting for your personal agenda. Thats disgraceful.
That will NEVER happen at Qantas. You know it more than anyone! You have heard it all before. Was there an ironclad guarantee the 787's would come with EBA 9? Stop reaching for the stars at something that's never going to happen.
If they don't come, nothing changes. SO's on reduced pay scales are never hired. 350 flying never happens. You go back to your delusional world thinking everything is OK.
I think it's time you put your hat onto the hook for good. You simply cannot look forward into the future. You have lost the plot. Maybe go to your local supermarket and buy some toilet paper. 
Perhaps you should read and take the advice offered from the President and VP of AIPA.
STOP using scare tactics to trick pilots into voting for your personal agenda. Thats disgraceful.
If they don't come, nothing changes. SO's on reduced pay scales are never hired. 350 flying never happens. You go back to your delusional world thinking everything is OK.
If you think the virus is a short term hiccup you are even stupider than I thought. Look at the numbers. Watch what happens in Qantas in the next few weeks it will be very ugly.
Perhaps you should read and take the advice offered from the President and VP of AIPA.
will you be forced to do this flying
Bat flu is a different and nasty thing for travel and hospitality the world over. Unavoidable, unpredictable and quite disturbing. My sympathy on that front distributes to everyone involved for different reasons.
I’m actually appalled that some of the blokes I looked up to for guidance as a young SO/FO seem to have completely lost their minds.
Vote YES.
and if this goes down, We all have long memories. We will remember who threw us under the bus.
Vote YES.
and if this goes down, We all have long memories. We will remember who threw us under the bus.
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I would say the company have thrown us under bus, but at least we will be thrown under the 350 bus
. Must be a great feeling “sticking it to the company” from the left seat of a 380.As the AIPA leadership has said, secure the flying for our pilots, and live to fight another day!
Vote YES for our future!
Read it and weep. From a delta Captain , the direct competition that operates two Captains and FOs add 50% for $aus.
Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work
This is assuming 9-12 days of work per month
Plus 6 weeks of paid vacation
We are paid about $400 per hour and then 16-18% on top of that depending on how much profit the airline makes
We also have something called “ Green slips”. When the airline is out of pilots ( frequently) they call a pilot in seniority order to see you if you want to do one of these trips . I get one every other month or so
They pay double ($800 per hour) plus the 16%... so are very desirable
Eg idid a 4 day trip LAX SYD LAX
As a Green Slip. That’s 29 hours x $800 plus the 16% $23,000 plus 16%.
But again it’s hard to get the Green slips
Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work
This is assuming 9-12 days of work per month
Plus 6 weeks of paid vacation
We are paid about $400 per hour and then 16-18% on top of that depending on how much profit the airline makes
We also have something called “ Green slips”. When the airline is out of pilots ( frequently) they call a pilot in seniority order to see you if you want to do one of these trips . I get one every other month or so
They pay double ($800 per hour) plus the 16%... so are very desirable
Eg idid a 4 day trip LAX SYD LAX
As a Green Slip. That’s 29 hours x $800 plus the 16% $23,000 plus 16%.
But again it’s hard to get the Green slips
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Read it and weep. From a delta Captain , the direct competition that operates two Captains and FOs add 50% for $aus.
Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work
This is assuming 9-12 days of work per month
Plus 6 weeks of paid vacation
We are paid about $400 per hour and then 16-18% on top of that depending on how much profit the airline makes
We also have something called “ Green slips”. When the airline is out of pilots ( frequently) they call a pilot in seniority order to see you if you want to do one of these trips . I get one every other month or so
They pay double ($800 per hour) plus the 16%... so are very desirable
Eg idid a 4 day trip LAX SYD LAX
As a Green Slip. That’s 29 hours x $800 plus the 16% $23,000 plus 16%.
But again it’s hard to get the Green slips
Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work
This is assuming 9-12 days of work per month
Plus 6 weeks of paid vacation
We are paid about $400 per hour and then 16-18% on top of that depending on how much profit the airline makes
We also have something called “ Green slips”. When the airline is out of pilots ( frequently) they call a pilot in seniority order to see you if you want to do one of these trips . I get one every other month or so
They pay double ($800 per hour) plus the 16%... so are very desirable
Eg idid a 4 day trip LAX SYD LAX
As a Green Slip. That’s 29 hours x $800 plus the 16% $23,000 plus 16%.
But again it’s hard to get the Green slips
off you go dragon
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Read it and weep. From a delta Captain , the direct competition that operates two Captains and FOs add 50% for $aus.
Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work
This is assuming 9-12 days of work per month
Plus 6 weeks of paid vacation
We are paid about $400 per hour and then 16-18% on top of that depending on how much profit the airline makes
We also have something called “ Green slips”. When the airline is out of pilots ( frequently) they call a pilot in seniority order to see you if you want to do one of these trips . I get one every other month or so
They pay double ($800 per hour) plus the 16%... so are very desirable
Eg idid a 4 day trip LAX SYD LAX
As a Green Slip. That’s 29 hours x $800 plus the 16% $23,000 plus 16%.
But again it’s hard to get the Green slips
Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work
This is assuming 9-12 days of work per month
Plus 6 weeks of paid vacation
We are paid about $400 per hour and then 16-18% on top of that depending on how much profit the airline makes
We also have something called “ Green slips”. When the airline is out of pilots ( frequently) they call a pilot in seniority order to see you if you want to do one of these trips . I get one every other month or so
They pay double ($800 per hour) plus the 16%... so are very desirable
Eg idid a 4 day trip LAX SYD LAX
As a Green Slip. That’s 29 hours x $800 plus the 16% $23,000 plus 16%.
But again it’s hard to get the Green slips
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And as per usual dragon_man completely ignores the facts and questions presented to him.
I rate your advice from a delta captain right up there with those on Qrewroom offering legal advice and posting memes to distract you from the real facts at play here. You need to compare apples and oranges my friend. Do Delta fly the 350 with ~200 odd seats in a heavy premium confirguation, for over 21 hours around the world?
Funnily enough that legal advice so many NO voters provided on Qrewroom has now been confirmed false information from the AIPA leadership. Back into your scaremongering tents please.
I rate your advice from a delta captain right up there with those on Qrewroom offering legal advice and posting memes to distract you from the real facts at play here. You need to compare apples and oranges my friend. Do Delta fly the 350 with ~200 odd seats in a heavy premium confirguation, for over 21 hours around the world?
Funnily enough that legal advice so many NO voters provided on Qrewroom has now been confirmed false information from the AIPA leadership. Back into your scaremongering tents please.
Lol, it’s been a relatively peacefull 24 hours without this clown, and BAM! He’s back with slogans and all.
Will anyone on here admit he has changed their vote? If not, mate, please stop with the constant FUD and campaigning..
That or the angels are recruiting straight from high school these days..
Will anyone on here admit he has changed their vote? If not, mate, please stop with the constant FUD and campaigning..
That or the angels are recruiting straight from high school these days..
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Lol, it’s been a relatively peacefull 24 hours without this clown, and BAM! He’s back with slogans and all.
Will anyone on here admit he has changed their vote? If not, mate, please stop with the constant FUD and campaigning..
That or the angels are recruiting straight from high school these days..
Will anyone on here admit he has changed their vote? If not, mate, please stop with the constant FUD and campaigning..
That or the angels are recruiting straight from high school these days..
Please, provide us all with your valid NO argument.
A slogan is a good idea. How about "Make Mainline Great Again". Would you buy a cap for $50?
You goose it’s not the seats it’s the yield, like the 30% more they charge Perth London on the 787.
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Last edited by Green.Dot; 7th Mar 2020 at 00:03.
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Read it and weep. From a delta Captain , the direct competition that operates two Captains and FOs add 50% for $aus.
Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work
This is assuming 9-12 days of work per month
Plus 6 weeks of paid vacation
We are paid about $400 per hour and then 16-18% on top of that depending on how much profit the airline makes
We also have something called “ Green slips”. When the airline is out of pilots ( frequently) they call a pilot in seniority order to see you if you want to do one of these trips . I get one every other month or so
They pay double ($800 per hour) plus the 16%... so are very desirable
Eg idid a 4 day trip LAX SYD LAX
As a Green Slip. That’s 29 hours x $800 plus the 16% $23,000 plus 16%.
But again it’s hard to get the Green slips
Here at DL most A350and 777 Captains makes $400,000 to $650,000 per year depending on much you want to work
This is assuming 9-12 days of work per month
Plus 6 weeks of paid vacation
We are paid about $400 per hour and then 16-18% on top of that depending on how much profit the airline makes
We also have something called “ Green slips”. When the airline is out of pilots ( frequently) they call a pilot in seniority order to see you if you want to do one of these trips . I get one every other month or so
They pay double ($800 per hour) plus the 16%... so are very desirable
Eg idid a 4 day trip LAX SYD LAX
As a Green Slip. That’s 29 hours x $800 plus the 16% $23,000 plus 16%.
But again it’s hard to get the Green slips
I'm sure pilot pay isn't the only part of the equation, but I've always felt that the QF v Delta comparison is a bit incomplete, without factoring in that Delta pretty obviously can't compete with Qantas (or other full service airlines) head to head.
SecretAngel I'm sure pilot pay isn't the only part of the equation, but I've always felt that the QF v Delta comparison is a bit incomplete, without factoring in that Delta pretty obviously can't compete with Qantas (or other full service airlines) head to head.
Hello! Pilot Pay is exactly the part of the equation we are discussing here!
Even Delta (which apparently, you say, can't compete with Qantas head to head) can still pay their pilots a decent wage that far exceeds Qantas.
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Be very careful cherry picking data points! You might be willing to take the Delta pay, but are you willing to accept the layoffs too?
2001 article Delta pilots fight job cuts Union seeks to block furloughs of 1,700 pilots at nation's No. 3 airline.
It won't take very many google searches to see the US industry moves from boom to bust and back to boom. The big increases come with much higher probabilities of layoffs when the industry tanks. The industry relations between management and pilots could be described as a knock-down, bare knuckle, no holes barred brawl.
To wit
NY Times: SULLY TOOK BIG PAY CUT By Clemente Lisi February 24, 2009
The founder of one of the largest hedge funds (160 billion under management), Ray Dalio of Bridgewater Associates came out this week, describing the COVID-19 virus as likely a one in one hundred year event. He is an avid student of history & debt cycles, and is up there in the elite of returns, so he has a point of view worth considering.
My Thoughts About the Coronavirus Published on March 4, 2020
I would be extremely surprised if Qantas did not have buyers remorse about what they are about to offer.
What is going to be on the table soon is an insurance policy. Have the odds shifted in favour of the pilots to bet the farm on a single vote? That is the question everyone needs to ask themselves.
Between now and the beginning of the vote opening we are all likely to get a much better insight into the validity of Dalio's assessment of the severity of this virus. This could potentially cripple Aviation for a very long time. It took a decade in the US before the industry recovered after 9/11.
NEW YORK (CNNmoney) - The Air Line Pilots Association filed a grievance Thursday challenging Delta Air Lines' decision to furlough 1,700 pilots as part of the airlines' plans to cut staff by about 13,000 jobs.
"Our contract has a no-furlough clause that covers all pilots on the seniority list on July 1, 2001," said a statement from Capt. William Buergey, chairman of the union's Delta unit. "Nearly all of the pilots targeted for layoff are protected by that provision."
A representative of Delta, the nation's No. 3 airline, said that management believes the grievance is without merit.
"Our contract has a no-furlough clause that covers all pilots on the seniority list on July 1, 2001," said a statement from Capt. William Buergey, chairman of the union's Delta unit. "Nearly all of the pilots targeted for layoff are protected by that provision."
A representative of Delta, the nation's No. 3 airline, said that management believes the grievance is without merit.
It won't take very many google searches to see the US industry moves from boom to bust and back to boom. The big increases come with much higher probabilities of layoffs when the industry tanks. The industry relations between management and pilots could be described as a knock-down, bare knuckle, no holes barred brawl.
To wit
Hero pilot Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger, who safely splash landed a US Airways jet into the Hudson River last month, said today that he had his pay and benefits slashed over the past few years.
In his testimony before a House aviation subcommittee in Washington, Sullenberger said that his pay had been cut a whopping 40 percent and that his pension had been slashed and replaced with a promise “worth pennies on the dollar” from the federally-created Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.
It was those cuts — followed by a wave of airline bankruptcies after the 9/11 terror attacks and the current recession — that hurt how much pilots are currently paid.
“The bankruptcies were used to by some as a fishing expedition to get what they could not get in normal times,” Sullenberger said of the cash-strapped airline industry.
“I do not know a single, professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps,” he added.
In his testimony before a House aviation subcommittee in Washington, Sullenberger said that his pay had been cut a whopping 40 percent and that his pension had been slashed and replaced with a promise “worth pennies on the dollar” from the federally-created Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.
It was those cuts — followed by a wave of airline bankruptcies after the 9/11 terror attacks and the current recession — that hurt how much pilots are currently paid.
“The bankruptcies were used to by some as a fishing expedition to get what they could not get in normal times,” Sullenberger said of the cash-strapped airline industry.
“I do not know a single, professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps,” he added.
The founder of one of the largest hedge funds (160 billion under management), Ray Dalio of Bridgewater Associates came out this week, describing the COVID-19 virus as likely a one in one hundred year event. He is an avid student of history & debt cycles, and is up there in the elite of returns, so he has a point of view worth considering.
Additionally, it seems to me that this is one of those once in 100 years catastrophic events that annihilates those who provide insurance against it and those who don’t take insurance to protect themselves against it because they treat it as the exposed bet that they can take because it virtually never happens.
I would be extremely surprised if Qantas did not have buyers remorse about what they are about to offer.
What is going to be on the table soon is an insurance policy. Have the odds shifted in favour of the pilots to bet the farm on a single vote? That is the question everyone needs to ask themselves.
Between now and the beginning of the vote opening we are all likely to get a much better insight into the validity of Dalio's assessment of the severity of this virus. This could potentially cripple Aviation for a very long time. It took a decade in the US before the industry recovered after 9/11.
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So we now have the President of AIPA, Neville Chamberlin, advocating for appeasement of the corporate bully. When has that ever worked? It would appear on here that he is aptly assisted by many sycophantic vassals.
If this threat works, when will you actually stand up to the bully? What will it take before you stand up and say enough?
If you don’t stand up now, despite your protestations, you never will.
If this threat works, when will you actually stand up to the bully? What will it take before you stand up and say enough?
If you don’t stand up now, despite your protestations, you never will.