Project Sunrise
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Prison Island (WA)
Posts: 1,386
Would be a damn shame if Chicago suffered from a second false start. I believe the original planned service on the Jumbo got pulled at the last minute as well (due to 9/11 I think?). Hopefully it doesn’t take another 19 years!
As for network changes, I’d expect to see further frequency drop, aircraft downsized where possible, maybe schedules rejigged, but most destinations retained. If only we had more 787s sitting around...the aircraft utilisation is through the roof already.
As for network changes, I’d expect to see further frequency drop, aircraft downsized where possible, maybe schedules rejigged, but most destinations retained. If only we had more 787s sitting around...the aircraft utilisation is through the roof already.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 192
Yes Meatbomb I can see the plan. We get them to sign off on a deal for the 350 that we want, then spend several hundred million in set up costs to start up an new entity whilst screwing our share price. It’s a classic plan. The 350 is about a lot more than sunrise and is much more cost effective for the company if it is within the LH award.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 476
Originally Posted by meatbomb01
Normanton and other yes voters:
Explain why when you vote yes and ‘secure’ the flying for a dogsh!t deal, QF don’t just turn around and transfer the flying to a new entity anyway? As long as it’s on new routes, there’s nothing illegal about it? So QF get you suckers to sign a shit deal, and the flying still goes elsewhere. How short sighted can you be?
Explain why when you vote yes and ‘secure’ the flying for a dogsh!t deal, QF don’t just turn around and transfer the flying to a new entity anyway? As long as it’s on new routes, there’s nothing illegal about it? So QF get you suckers to sign a shit deal, and the flying still goes elsewhere. How short sighted can you be?
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by meatbomb01
Normanton and other yes voters:
Explain why when you vote yes and ‘secure’ the flying for a dogsh!t deal, QF don’t just turn around and transfer the flying to a new entity anyway? As long as it’s on new routes, there’s nothing illegal about it? So QF get you suckers to sign a shit deal, and the flying still goes elsewhere. How short sighted can you be?
Explain why when you vote yes and ‘secure’ the flying for a dogsh!t deal, QF don’t just turn around and transfer the flying to a new entity anyway? As long as it’s on new routes, there’s nothing illegal about it? So QF get you suckers to sign a shit deal, and the flying still goes elsewhere. How short sighted can you be?
Your argument is flawed. Sure they can do that, but what happens to EBA 10 when it gets voted up and the 350's aren't ordered?
What conditions come into play, which ones never eventuate, and what we do gain, and what does the company gain? Have a good think about it my friend. Feel free to enlighten us with your findings.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by meatbomb01
Normanton and other yes voters:
Explain why when you vote yes and ‘secure’ the flying for a dogsh!t deal, QF don’t just turn around and transfer the flying to a new entity anyway? As long as it’s on new routes, there’s nothing illegal about it? So QF get you suckers to sign a shit deal, and the flying still goes elsewhere. How short sighted can you be?
Explain why when you vote yes and ‘secure’ the flying for a dogsh!t deal, QF don’t just turn around and transfer the flying to a new entity anyway? As long as it’s on new routes, there’s nothing illegal about it? So QF get you suckers to sign a shit deal, and the flying still goes elsewhere. How short sighted can you be?
The arrival of the 350, as Captain MW and co. are well aware, means lots of new jobs, expansion and promotions on an overall package that isn’t too bad. A yes vote would keep all this in house which hardly seems short sighted to me.
The rest of the deal is good, especially in the current environment eg. 3% pay rises.
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by dutch_oven
The shit parts of the deal are actually associated with the arrival of the 350 (SO pay, MVF, 4 man crew, 20 hr+ duties). So if the 350 doesn’t arrive, these shitty parts of the deal don’t arrive either. So there’s the hole in your assumption. It’s obvious you are on the outside looking in otherwise you would have known that.
The arrival of the 350, as Captain MW and co. are well aware, means lots of new jobs, expansion and promotions on an overall package that isn’t too bad. A yes vote would keep all this in house which hardly seems short sighted to me.
The rest of the deal is good, especially in the current environment eg. 3% pay rises.
The arrival of the 350, as Captain MW and co. are well aware, means lots of new jobs, expansion and promotions on an overall package that isn’t too bad. A yes vote would keep all this in house which hardly seems short sighted to me.
The rest of the deal is good, especially in the current environment eg. 3% pay rises.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,127
Originally Posted by Ruvap
is Captain MW the CSA captain who wrote to AJ? If so, I think I know who he is and am gobsmacked at his audacity! Someone should write to his CSA boss and let them know he is preparing a plan to move all of the CSA Aussie pilots to Qantas. No doubt the Chinese wouldn’t be impressed when the time comes to recall those guys only to find they have been hijacked by MW.
And expect them (and other Airbus and experienced pilots) to form the bulk of the new entity. Even if, and it’s a big if, mainline pilots are eventually allowed to fly at the new entity there’ll be no guarantees they’ll go in as DECs or DEFOs. Those who get there first will write the contract to suit them, any transfers will be a long way out of the comfort zone of what mainline pilots are used to.
Basically kiss goodbye to mainline careers for the majority if that happens.
Very easy to put a stop to, just vote Yes.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,127
Another thing I’ve noticed.
At the moment top two threads on Aus and Nz are:
Project Sunrise, and
VA pilots worried about employment.
One airline is looking to invest a lot of money a create a lot of jobs, the other’s pilots are getting concerned about employment.
Don’t think there’ll isn’t another alternative workforce to crew this new contract waiting right next door if mainline pilots knock back $400k a year jobs?
At the moment top two threads on Aus and Nz are:
Project Sunrise, and
VA pilots worried about employment.
One airline is looking to invest a lot of money a create a lot of jobs, the other’s pilots are getting concerned about employment.
Don’t think there’ll isn’t another alternative workforce to crew this new contract waiting right next door if mainline pilots knock back $400k a year jobs?
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by dr dre
Another thing I’ve noticed.
At the moment top two threads on Aus and Nz are:
Project Sunrise, and
VA pilots worried about employment.
One airline is looking to invest a lot of money a create a lot of jobs, the other’s pilots are getting concerned about employment.
Don’t think there’ll isn’t another alternative workforce to crew this new contract waiting right next door if mainline pilots knock back $400k a year jobs?
At the moment top two threads on Aus and Nz are:
Project Sunrise, and
VA pilots worried about employment.
One airline is looking to invest a lot of money a create a lot of jobs, the other’s pilots are getting concerned about employment.
Don’t think there’ll isn’t another alternative workforce to crew this new contract waiting right next door if mainline pilots knock back $400k a year jobs?
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Lagrangian point 2
Posts: 204
Meanwhile all the recently agreed provisions will be fully utilised with the remnants of QF
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,127
Originally Posted by beautiful_butterfly
Vote yes, it’ll secure the flying! Yeah right...
JQ MkII will start as QF sees an opportunity thanks to Coronavirus and pilots seeking to secure their own futures due to uncertainty overseas.
Mainline pilots then have no recourse for PIA because negotiations are over.
MoUs will be signed and waivers for transfer of business provisions to allow surplus mainline crew to take LWOP for opportunities as SOs with the new entity.
JQ MkII will start as QF sees an opportunity thanks to Coronavirus and pilots seeking to secure their own futures due to uncertainty overseas.
Mainline pilots then have no recourse for PIA because negotiations are over.
MoUs will be signed and waivers for transfer of business provisions to allow surplus mainline crew to take LWOP for opportunities as SOs with the new entity.
A no vote would give the company the perfect excuse to outsource however. I don’t think TS would be at webinar #142 right now if the real plan all along was to outsource. It’s obvious management want this deal to go through, but I’m pretty sure they don’t want another 2011 so the offer will be one time only.
Last edited by dr dre; 9th Mar 2020 at 13:30.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,127
Originally Posted by beautiful_butterfly
Sure hope you’re right!
The A350 looks like it'll be a more pay than the 787 but a bit more work, and less work than the 330 for more money. But on a global scale utterly downright fantastic T&C's for any flying in this day and age. Don't like it don't bid for it. But even if you don't want to fly it vote Yes and keep it in mainline because it will ensure that the position you do want to get to will come quicker. If it's No and it's outsourced then your career progression is stalled again.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 280
10 x 380s grounded (ie not flying) until Sep- A no voter would want to give themselves a serious uppercut in the event of this deal being turned down.
I like most started off in the no camp, but things change.
Most VA pilots will be happy if they have a job by mid year.
I’ll be happy if I’m not forced on LWOP this year or worse.
COVID is serious. Not the virus itself- but the scare campaign by the media which has brought the world to a standstill.
I haven’t been forced in to a yes vote by AJ or his counterparts, I have made a decision using the facts on the table. Assess your own facts wisely and don’t vote based on what your mate might think of you. This is not a pissing contest about who can outlast the other.
I like most started off in the no camp, but things change.
Most VA pilots will be happy if they have a job by mid year.
I’ll be happy if I’m not forced on LWOP this year or worse.
COVID is serious. Not the virus itself- but the scare campaign by the media which has brought the world to a standstill.
I haven’t been forced in to a yes vote by AJ or his counterparts, I have made a decision using the facts on the table. Assess your own facts wisely and don’t vote based on what your mate might think of you. This is not a pissing contest about who can outlast the other.
Last edited by Green.Dot; 9th Mar 2020 at 22:58.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by beautiful_butterfly
History repeating itself again indubitably.
At least they are giving you an option before starting up a Jetstar this time!
Vote YES to secure the flying.
Originally Posted by beautiful_butterfly
Meanwhile all the recently agreed provisions will be fully utilised with the remnants of QF.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by C441
And in another 'interesting turn of events', 10 of the 12 A380's are to be grounded amongst other measures to counter the reduction in demand as a result of the virus.
Lets look into a hypothetical future. The NO vote gets up, the 350's go to a new entity.
In the future the 380's are grounded for a longer period of time, and or retired. 380 pilots RINd to 330/787. What happens to the junior pilots? Well after the EBA process is followed, redundancy! And remember the 350s never came, so there is no new seniority numbers below you because no new pilots were ever hired (they went to the new entity).
If you are new to this company and are thinking of voting NO in this EBA, you will severely regret it!
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
10 x 380s grounded (ie not flying) until Sep- A no voter would want to give themselves a serious uppercut in the event of this deal being turned down.
I haven’t been forced in to a yes vote by AJ or his counterparts, I have made a decision using the facts on the table. Assess your own facts wisely and don’t vote based on what your mate might think of you. This is not a pissing contest about who can outlast the other.
With our beloved CEO now taking no salary until July 2020, back pay and 3% pay rises is looking pretty good!
Last edited by normanton; 9th Mar 2020 at 23:34.
