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Project Sunrise

Old 8th Mar 2020, 01:30
  #1781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 484
Yes thats true.

The other thing to consider, which was also mentioned in the webinars was that one of the fleet had a higher take home pay and lower super contributions. The other had a smaller take home pay but higher super contributions. I can't remember off the top of my head which option belonged to which fleet. Suffice to say that was another option to consider when picking a fleet.

If anyone could confirm the following that would be great. 787 FO to 330 FO under the proposed new training requirements. Is this allowed? I know you can't go from 787 FO to 330/350 FO.
normanton is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 01:33
  #1782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 71
Posts: 904
NORM
I still keep my finger on the pulse , whilst I still have one .
AIPA isn’t just the President and the Executive ,it’s CoM too.
There are plenty of CoM members seething at the bias showing from this Executive.
I’ve read his and Brad’s “personal “opinions !

The AIPA president has confirmed that everything the company is doing his(sic) legal. He has also stated that should a NO vote get up, the union will NOT be pursuing legal action under his leadership.
Isn’t there an SGM on Friday coming up ,on the 13th , might get unlucky for some ? Beware the Ides of March ?
blow.n.gasket is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 01:34
  #1783 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Window Seat
Posts: 49
I’m sure we will have plenty of opportunity to discuss the consequences of a vote either way at the SGM on Friday. I for one will be seated in a low key area with a family sized popcorn if anyone is keen on joining me.
bythenumbers is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 01:45
  #1784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
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Originally Posted by blow.n.gasket View Post
NORM
I still keep my finger on the pulse , whilst I still have one .
AIPA isn’t just the President and the Executive ,it’s CoM too.
There are plenty of CoM members seething at the bias showing from this Executive.
I’ve read his and Brad’s “personal “opinions !
Just in case you can't read, I did say we are still waiting for the COM.

Enjoy the lunch with your wife. Make sure you don't order any tofu.
normanton is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 03:02
  #1785 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by blow.n.gasket View Post
NORM
I still keep my finger on the pulse , whilst I still have one .
AIPA isn’t just the President and the Executive ,it’s CoM too.
There are plenty of CoM members seething at the bias showing from this Executive.
I’ve read his and Brad’s “personal “opinions !



Isn’t there an SGM on Friday coming up ,on the 13th , might get unlucky for some ? Beware the Ides of March ?
I think the CP should be a candidate?
Allowing this ‘gun to the head’ behaviour on his watch is unacceptable.
Vote of no confidence from the pilot group?
Wingspar is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 03:02
  #1786 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: centre of my universe
Posts: 289
[QUOTEIf anyone could confirm the following that would be great. 787 FO to 330 FO under the proposed new training requirements. Is this allowed? I know you can't go from 787 FO to 330/350 FO.[/QUOTE]
No change to current rules. It’s a back bid and therefore the company have to agree to it.
Poto is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 03:58
  #1787 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: vegas, not 'las', or 'bris', but the other one
Posts: 87
If the ULR is opt in only, why not everyone vote NO, let Joycey set up his new operation, then if you want to fly the 350 move across to the new entity.

then everyone is happy
mince is online now  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 04:10
  #1788 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by Wingspar View Post
I think the CP should be a candidate?
Allowing this ‘gun to the head’ behaviour on his watch is unacceptable.
Vote of no confidence from the pilot group?
THIS. Be good if it could make it to the news.
cloudsurfng is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 05:03
  #1789 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
Age: 53
Posts: 464
“Hmm an article written by someone with a character name from Fightclub. Very credible. Here is a quote from Wikipedia about the website”

Zero Hedge is a reasonably credible source of information regarding finance and geo politics.

The name of the author is irrelevant, the articles are simply reposts from other sources and are usually from respected and knowledgable writers.

Simply quoting wikipedia and its CNN quote, as though CNN has ANY credibility at all, is just lazy. I hope you do more diligent research about subjects when they are more important than simply willy waving on PPRuNe.


oicur12.again is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 06:44
  #1790 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by blow.n.gasket View Post
You lot of Sanctimonious , pontificating , millennial keyboard ,schoolgirls must be an absolute hoot to fly with !
I would cringe just thinking about having to spend 1 hour , let alone 20+ hours on a flight deck listening to your lecturing ,superior than thou diatribe on how everybody else should be more like you and your vegan tofu toasting ,lotus eating ,wheatgrass swilling , Marxist Millennial crap!
Will be interesting listening to your ilk in a decade or two when you have a few life skill ground into you with this ULR crap.
The most interesting part I found when I flew was the meeting down in the lobby at 5 having a few beers, heading out for a meal and actually getting to know your fellow crew members . There is a novel concept , getting a measure of the person sitting beside you for the next 16 hours .
I must admit I probably learned more through this type of personal interaction both professionally and personally than I would have if all I did was look at myself in the mirror at the gym whilst swiping through grinder that you lot appear to fit the profile for !
Good luck , you’re going to need it .
I agree with the above advice, especially the ‘good luck’ bit cause you are gonna need lots of it. Or you could grow some kahunas and vote NO and save money by not needing to buy any rectinol.
Ruvap is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 07:00
  #1791 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by mince View Post
If the ULR is opt in only, why not everyone vote NO, let Joycey set up his new operation, then if you want to fly the 350 move across to the new entity.

then everyone is happy
Tino has already conceded in a webinar that if a seperate entity were to be setup, he expects some current mainline pilots would bid across and this is exactly how we all should be thinking about it. Obviously they plan to allow such a mechanism. It could actually mean a quicker promotion by voting NO for some pilots. Maybe AIPA should get a clause put into the deal which leaves existing pilots with first rights to new positions in the new entity if in fact they proceed down that path in the event of a NO vote. I think a win/win is achieved by voting NO and gives AIPA another chance at renegotiating an new EBA ex the A350 ops. VOTE NO.
Ruvap is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 07:31
  #1792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 192
That’s if Qantas set up a mechanism for transfer, they may not. There is no transfer mechanism to Jetstar other than an agreed MOU which only covers some pilots. Would people be willing to resign from mainline and go permanently to an new entity? Not many stayed at Jetstar. Also that is if terms and conditions are the same that are on offer now, no guarantees there. They may well offer lower terms to fit the cost of setting up a green fields operation into their business case (or because they can and will still get applicants). Therefor voting NO will probably still not get you a chance to fly the 350 unless you’re willing to resign from mainline (which the company may want to avoid costs of RINs and redundancy a few years down the track).
engine out is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 07:43
  #1793 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Prison Island (WA)
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by normanton View Post
You're a muppet. If you don't want to do the Sunrise flying, don't opt in for it. They are not forcing you.

Your probably one of those pilots who drop the line "see you down at 5pm for drinks". Despite it being 6am in your local time. Learn how to control your mind and health my friend. Your a pilot for god sake, not a 8am-5pm office worker.

Get a grip
After recently returning to LH it was refreshing to see the “downstairs at 6pm” routine is pretty much gone. Still getting through a few pints, just starting earlier in the day and earlier to bed

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Toughest EA vote I’ve ever been a part of. Still not sure which way I’ll go, I want to see the final document and I suggest others do the same in case either side manages to sneak something in.
Transition Layer is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 07:53
  #1794 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by engine out View Post
That’s if Qantas set up a mechanism for transfer, they may not. There is no transfer mechanism to Jetstar other than an agreed MOU which only covers some pilots. Would people be willing to resign from mainline and go permanently to an new entity? Not many stayed at Jetstar. Also that is if terms and conditions are the same that are on offer now, no guarantees there. They may well offer lower terms to fit the cost of setting up a green fields operation into their business case (or because they can and will still get applicants). Therefor voting NO will probably still not get you a chance to fly the 350 unless you’re willing to resign from mainline (which the company may want to avoid costs of RINs and redundancy a few years down the track).
Having the A350 ops housed in a seperate entity is not such a bad thing. If it fails, it may not affect pilots who chose to stay in traditional mainline flying roles and it will be by choice if you want to go there. If we are going to submit to setting up some kind of B scale, then it should be an entity disconnected from current mainline ops so that we can get em back to the table and renegotiate a new EBA for existing flying, provided we get first rights to A350 ops whether that requires a resignation from mainline or not.
Ruvap is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 08:24
  #1795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by Ruvap View Post
Or you could grow some kahunas and vote NO and save money by not needing to buy any rectinol.
Is that the great advice everyone got in ‘89 when it turned out so well?
Green.Dot is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 08:39
  #1796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Cuckoos nest
Age: 1
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by Ruvap View Post
Having the A350 ops housed in a seperate entity is not such a bad thing. If it fails...
If it fails? In four years time mainline pilots are competing with this entity for A330 and A380 replacements.

Cheers
A little birdie is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 08:48
  #1797 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 45
Posts: 1,152
Considering all the A380’s are about to be grounded and a 60-70% reduction in QF international is on the horizon....
Im not advocating anything but have you looked at the loads lately on QF international flights? They are horrendous and loss making.
The peak of COVID 19 will be August here so horrendous economic pain will endure to at a minimum early next year. In some ways a vote NO will be safer if the forecast of redundancy is true as I’m hearing, are the redundancy provisions the same in the new contract? Don’t shoot the messenger I have heard there may be a 400-500 million loss first half next financial year if this COVID19 persists until then. Sunrise may be binned or delayed if this keeps up.
Angle of Attack is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 08:57
  #1798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by Angle of Attack View Post
Considering all the A380’s are about to be grounded and a 60-70% reduction in QF international is on the horizon....
Im not advocating anything but have you looked at the loads lately on QF international flights? They are horrendous and loss making.
The peak of COVID 19 will be August here so horrendous economic pain will endure to at a minimum early next year. In some ways a vote NO will be safer if the forecast of redundancy is true as I’m hearing, are the redundancy provisions the same in the new contract? Don’t shoot the messenger I have heard there may be a 400-500 million loss first half next financial year if this COVID19 persists until then. Sunrise may be binned or delayed if this keeps up.
This is yet another reason why we should resist any temptation to do anything and sit on our hands. Only way to do that is vote NO. Tino conceded that they are looking ‘through’ the virus situation but is that even possible? I don’t think so and given their already announced restructuring, this will inevitably get worse so yes, redundancy is entirely feasible and having Qantas make a decision on such a huge A350 order whilst parking A380’s seems not feasible to me. I think Tino was not telling you the whole story when he said they are looking through the virus. Watch this space! Voting NO is cheap insurance.
Ruvap is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 09:05
  #1799 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Cuckoos nest
Age: 1
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by Angle of Attack View Post
....are the redundancy provisions the same in the new contract?
Unchanged.

Alternatively, vote ‘no’, company suggests pay freeze for another 18 months or wants bigger offsets for the 5 x 3% due to ‘unprecedented situation caused by coronavirus’. We already know outcomes for crewing if ‘no’.

Sunrise is 3 years away. Being able to overfly SIN is a good thing.

If Sunrise never happens? 5 x 3% payrises and pre allocated training. Happens? 5 x 3% payrises, pre-allocated training. Future more secure.

Cheers
A little birdie is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 09:17
  #1800 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 45
Posts: 1,152
Thanks Ruvap and Birdie, no I’m not in the game to vote but was just curious, I could see a forced pay freeze become a condition with the current economic conditions, with a NO vote. I can also see the merit of a YES vote to keep the flying, but I’m not sure if it will happen regardless. Good luck and I hope it all works out well! 👍
Angle of Attack is offline  

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