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Qantas Recruitment

Old 11th Apr 2018, 03:19
  #1301 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus
PER is the junior base, so there would be gnashing of teeth and rending of garments if a new hire got a prized east coast slot instead of a current pilot.
There were some slots for 737 FO MEL awarded to new hires, or at least very recent hires <3 months in etc

Mostly PER though
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 03:38
  #1302 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CurtainTwitcher
Latest info is it now a few months. Apparently 787 September 2017 joiner, 2 bid periods online as SO (112 days) and MEL 737 slot.

SYD & BNE are unlikely to be far behind.
Thanks. I had heard that, but was unable to check the numbers. I was having a chat to a 737 Capt who was saying the company is quietly sh!tting themselves about how to crew the 737 in the next few years.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 03:49
  #1303 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ruprecht
the company is quietly sh!tting themselves about how to crew the 737 in the next few years.
He was a man of understatement!
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 04:00
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Bring in the Kiwi’s? That is their answer. But it’s just making things worse. Engagement of the current pilots has diminished due to these decisions.
Reap what you sow��

Last edited by SandyPalms; 11th Apr 2018 at 05:18.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 08:11
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If you take an early 737 FO slot when you are a new hire, get comfy, you are going to be there for a VERY long time, thereís a reason why they are going so junior.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 08:36
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Go over to Jetconnect in New Zealand and youíll be closer to the east coast of Australia 🇦🇺. 😛
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 10:05
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Out of curiosity, what does an SO make these days and how long are you fetching coffee before you move to the front seat?
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 19:29
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A lot of money, as per previous post. Thatís why they would think they would struggle to crew the 737 potentially.
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 22:43
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Jee Ray, a new joiner on the 787, about 100k. Established crew on the 380/747 could easily earn 2.5 times that amount due to the differences in the contract. This is significantly more than a 737 FO earns who, incidentally, works much harder for the dough in terms of lifestyle and days at work. It’s been an aberration for ever and management wonder why pilots are unwilling to sacrifice both money - a lot of money - and time at home to move into the right hand seat. Most junior east coast wide body FO slot is running at about 15 years seniority.

There have been no promotions for so long at QANTAS that many S/Os are well into their 40s with kids and family commitments and have discovered there are MUCH more important things in life than a 3rd stripe. A number of 737 FOs have recently bid back to the 747 to spend more time with young families. Good luck to them. Management like to talk about “work-life balance” but this is the reality of what it takes to make it happen.

The 787 contract was an attempt to remove the incentive to stay as a SO but, guess what, management couldn’t even get that right. They had the contract in place but couldn’t get their training needs right so they had to bring in new joiners on the 747 and 380, further perpetuating the current system, at least after the new joiners hit 18 months.

Short story, there is no financial or lifestyle incentive whatsoever - in fact it’s negative on both fronts - to move from the back seat on the 747 or 380 to the right seat on a maggot.

It’s even questionable financially whether you would move from a comfy FO spot on the LH types to a 737 command but more pilots seem willing to take that step as it’s a command.

Oh, and all this is before you even consider the need to uproot your family and move to Perth or Adelaide at your own expense to take a pay cut. I think my wife said, “Get f$&ked!” or something similar when I raised the topic for discussion several years ago.

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 11th Apr 2018 at 23:13.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 00:47
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DA...

Nailed it!👍... & itís a problem of the companyís own making.🙄😖
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 00:58
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Nailed it!��... & it’s a problem of the company’s own making.����
It is even more insidious than that; it was by design.

If you carefully review the testimony of Peter Gregg Ex CFO given to a Parliamentary hearing you will see several key phrases.

Specifically 'competitive wage tension across the group' This was a cornerstone strategy in JQ's establishment; control labour unit cost.

Denial of career opportunities and inability to transfer meant JQ was ring fenced and a nice new workforce without that 'polluting' culture (Yes Mr Joyce said that) of mainline pilots.

What was once a proud career, is merely a job.
As we are told, AIPA 'negotiators' are asking pilots in one breath 'what do you want from the new contract negotiation?' and then when given the answer retort, 'what will you give up?'

Seems axiomatic that there is nothing left to give and to restore the balance both remuneration and life balance needs addressing, but whether the union is prepared to do anything remains to be seen.

With no appetite for change, Qantas will quietly establish the Network and Jetconnect narrative as the reason that direct entry recruiting onto the 737 thereby making the contract irrelevant. Of course the 'grown ups' structuring the pilot union defence must know this, right?
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 02:26
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Originally Posted by Jetsbest
Nailed it!👍... & itís a problem of the companyís own making.🙄😖
Correct but thatís not how they see it. The evil pilots cost us a fortune in training costs as they stay on the 737 for as little time as possible . The fact that if the 737 rosters could be bought to 15 days a month a lot of the problems would go away.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 02:51
  #1313 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere
Jee Ray, a new joiner on the 787, about 100k. Established crew on the 380/747 could easily earn 2.5 times that amount due to the differences in the contract. This is significantly more than a 737 FO earns who, incidentally, works much harder for the dough in terms of lifestyle and days at work. Itís been an aberration for ever and management wonder why pilots are unwilling to sacrifice both money - a lot of money - and time at home to move into the right hand seat. Most junior east coast wide body FO slot is running at about 15 years seniority.

There have been no promotions for so long at QANTAS that many S/Os are well into their 40s with kids and family commitments and have discovered there are MUCH more important things in life than a 3rd stripe. A number of 737 FOs have recently bid back to the 747 to spend more time with young families. Good luck to them. Management like to talk about ďwork-life balanceĒ but this is the reality of what it takes to make it happen.

The 787 contract was an attempt to remove the incentive to stay as a SO but, guess what, management couldnít even get that right. They had the contract in place but couldnít get their training needs right so they had to bring in new joiners on the 747 and 380, further perpetuating the current system, at least after the new joiners hit 18 months.

Short story, there is no financial or lifestyle incentive whatsoever - in fact itís negative on both fronts - to move from the back seat on the 747 or 380 to the right seat on a maggot.

Itís even questionable financially whether you would move from a comfy FO spot on the LH types to a 737 command but more pilots seem willing to take that step as itís a command.

Oh, and all this is before you even consider the need to uproot your family and move to Perth or Adelaide at your own expense to take a pay cut. I think my wife said, ďGet f$&ked!Ē or something similar when I raised the topic for discussion several years ago.

A bold few have ventured beyond the Sydney basin and farther afield than the Southern Highlands or a whining commute from the Sunshine State, and discovered there is actually life in Australia west of the NSW border. Some cannot fully overcome the security of that huge mortgage and commute to these far flung outposts, safe in the knowledge on days off, they can return to the serenity and peacefulness of the Eastern Suburbs or The Shire.

But there are some, who load up the wagon and venture west, modern day explorers, determined to find a life beyond the East Coast. They are dismissed as crazies by the two stripers, who cannot comprehend actually doing something for a living. You would have to be complete nuts to give up the monotonous drudgery of endless back to back LA's and find a place to settle that's not dependent on 30hrs overtime a roster.

Despite the mocking, many of these outcasts have found an inner peace. With their circadian rhythm back in check, they find they can do stuff besides sleep on days off at home. Energised and fitter, they actually leave their suburbs and find they can get to another part of their new city in under an hour. They no longer have to park 1km from an overcrowded beach and pay $5 per hour for the privilege.

The work is fun, the flying varied, busy, but time passes quickly. Conversation strays beyond superannuation balances and investment property values. Far from "head office", there is less gossip and rumours, less angst about management and office politics. At sign-off, they feel they have done something with their day. The bases are smaller, crew somehow friendlier, not as uptight.

Some long for a return to the East Coast. Others live content fulfilled lives.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 02:51
  #1314 (permalink)  
Keg

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Question

Originally Posted by Rated De

With no appetite for change, Qantas will quietly establish the Network and Jetconnect narrative as the reason that direct entry recruiting onto the 737 thereby making the contract irrelevant. Of course the 'grown ups' structuring the pilot union defence must know this, right?
Is there a problem recruiting direct to 737 F/O for those who may be willing to take up that offer? Sure the LH contract doesn’t currently permit it but why shouldn’t AIPA and QF facilitate it to the mutual benefit of future employees and Qantas? I’m not suggesting ‘open slather’ but there are a number of mechanisms that can be put in place to manage the situation appropriately.

Gold Potsie! Though the PER 737 crew I run into in PER at 0425 in the morning may dispute the circadian rhythm comment!
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 02:59
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Originally Posted by Potsie Weber
They are dismissed as crazies by the two stripers, who cannot comprehend actually doing something for a living.
Oh I can comprehend it, I just don’t want to do it...
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 03:15
  #1316 (permalink)  
 
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Just to clarify for those on the outside lookin in:

Qf 737 FO ain't that bad!

I enjoyed my time there and would happily go back, pending a meteorite to cull some dinosaurs from the list
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 03:43
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Potsie...nailed it!

Direct Anywhere...spoken like someone who has never been forward of 1A (paxing to MEL for a 24hr slip) in a 737!
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 04:20
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Training on the 737 is completely different to Long Haul..first of all, is actually training, and secondly, they don't treat F/o's and S/o's like children as they do in Long Haul..
How long since you last did a training course in Longhaul? Which fleet?

There's a bunch of excellent trainers out there (but sadly still a very few who perhaps are there for the wrong reason). Many of our best trainers began that role on the 767 which most agreed had a great training culture.

As a general rule, most of our Longhaul trainers have embraced the new training-emphasised cyclic matrix and carry that over to the line training environment very well.

Ö..and I haven't been a Trainer for 6 or 7 years.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 04:27
  #1319 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
Direct Anywhere...spoken like someone who has never been forward of 1A (paxing to MEL for a 24hr slip) in a 737!
That's not fair. I have paxed on the flight deck once or twice.

I was fortunate enough to take my first promotion in QF after 18 months when such a thing was possible.

As an F/O I am tired, however, of hearing Captains, who were widebody Captains in their late 20s or early 30s, lecture 40 y/o S/Os about why they're living their lives all wrong from an exalted seniority position some 1700 numbers above. One of these Captains recently had the audacity to pull out his iPad and start showing his S/O photos of the multi-million dollar holiday shack he was building and then wondered why they weren't interested.

These S/Os have children in their teens, well established in schools, and wives who work and have careers of their own and Captain X thinks they should up sticks and move to become an F/O, work more and take a pay cut.

These guys are utterly tone deaf to think that such advice is warranted or welcome. They have no idea what the world looks like from a S/O spot after the lost decade and should be sensible enough to keep their thoughts and ideas to themselves or maybe, having seen the consequences of the RIN first hand, I'm just a little more empathetic than others.

Apologies for the thread drift.

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 12th Apr 2018 at 05:58.
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Old 12th Apr 2018, 05:55
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Originally Posted by Street garbage
Training on the 737 is completely different to Long Haul..first of all, is actually training, and secondly, they don't treat F/o's and S/o's like children as they do in Long Haul..
Completely disagree on all counts.
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