Australian pilots can work for US regionals.
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 46
Likes: 12
From: Canada
Another key difference I noticed was the level of stress placed on pilots. In Australia, the training environment was error-critical to the point of being excessive. It created unnecessary stress, making pilots more worried about not making mistakes rather than genuinely improving their skills. When I trained in the U.S., I felt far less stressed and worried because the philosophy was about developing pilots, not trying to catch them out. Those who worked together as a team often succeeded, and teamwork was actively encouraged during and after training.
One of the most striking differences was how pilots are checked to the line:
• In Australia, I had to be checked to line in 100 hours, followed by further training before being checked again at 120-130 hours, with additional requirements beyond that.
• In the USA, I was told I would be checked to line in 25 hours. I ended up being checked in 30 hours—a reasonable timeframe with a clear progression path.
The American approach was far more efficient while still ensuring pilots were competent and continued to learn. A key reason for this was that Captains in the U.S. were also seen as part of the training process, helping new pilots consolidate their skills after being checked to line.
One of the most striking differences was how pilots are checked to the line:
• In Australia, I had to be checked to line in 100 hours, followed by further training before being checked again at 120-130 hours, with additional requirements beyond that.
• In the USA, I was told I would be checked to line in 25 hours. I ended up being checked in 30 hours—a reasonable timeframe with a clear progression path.
The American approach was far more efficient while still ensuring pilots were competent and continued to learn. A key reason for this was that Captains in the U.S. were also seen as part of the training process, helping new pilots consolidate their skills after being checked to line.
Doing my training (and, recently, airline type rating) in Canada, the focus was always on being a competent pilot. That meant that you were taught what that competency looked like first, taught the techniques next, and were expected to then reproduce it. Any issues were dealt with openly and collaboratively, with the eye of making you a better, safer pilot.
Comparing this to when I did my conversion in Australia. I had to repeat a "required" review lesson before being signed off for the flight exams due to not being within 20' of a target altitude. In 30+ degree turbulent weather, in a tiny piston plane... "Because you're a commercial pilot, and you should do better". Not, hey, it's a crappy day, and you demonstrated you can keep altitude well within CPL limits in straight and level, let's move along.
The overall impression I got from many people I've talked to in Oz was one tinged with arrogance. One instructor during my instructor course tried to tell me how aviation is hard, and to demonstrate that, he regaled me with stories of having to walk around 3 different planes before one could be taken (due to mechanical issues)... Meanwhile, as I sat across them, I could only think "yeah... I did that. In -40, in howling winds, while also having to deal with deicing said planes". The same attitude was also in evidence applying for basic 200-series Cessna jobs up North.
Which is a shame, because the kind of collaborative and regimented approach to aviation that exists in Canada, US, and a good chunk Europe is an absolute joy to work within... And, moreover, the general Australian culture seems tailor made for it! Instead, you have people doing the Tall Poppy thing in literally every level of the aviation world, for no good reason other than them having made it. And the actual learning, mentorship, and camaraderie are left to wither on the vine.
Ironically, I found the aviation industry in Australia is actually exactly how many things work in the US: everyone for themselves. And that's unfortunate, because emulating that has done Australian pilots absolutely dreadfully in just about every regard.
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Dark Side of the Moon
I was living in Europe when the family and I decided to immigrate to OZ, I left a good flying job and was genuinely excited to work for an Aussie Airline as all the Aussies I had met in my travels were very laid back and friendly. On one of my last flights the Captain I was with was an ex Cathay guys and when he found out I was going to OZ he said 'christ mate you are in for some pain, every Aussie check pilot I have ever encountered is a thruster and make everything hard work'. I assumed he just had a bad experience, within a month of joining my new gig I regretted it big time, I had no idea just how miserable an experience you could make flying an airliner so I quit and went to another carrier. Same thing unfortunately, it has improved a lot since then but in comparison to the rest of the world Australia is a horrible place to be a pilot, training systems are archaic, CASA is a nightmare and unity amongst pilots is nowhere to be found. Everyone keeps telling me about 89 and seem to use this as an excuse for screwing each other over. It is a shame, but still a great place to live, just the aviation industry is f@#ked.
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 174
Likes: 20
From: Sydney
Money is not everything-far from it to be honest.
Accountants salaries haven't moved in 20 years here because of skilled migration.
I consider myself lucky to raise my family here, despite cost of living wise probably better off in Ireland.
I met a mate of mine on recent holiday to Ireland who retired, because a lot of his friends similar age had tragically passed away. ( he is in his 50s like me)
He put it down to work related stress and was financially viable(engineer) to walk away from that environment.
Australia is a great country with relaxed population and great facilities/climate.
I am lucky to be here and likewise my family.
Accountants salaries haven't moved in 20 years here because of skilled migration.
I consider myself lucky to raise my family here, despite cost of living wise probably better off in Ireland.
I met a mate of mine on recent holiday to Ireland who retired, because a lot of his friends similar age had tragically passed away. ( he is in his 50s like me)
He put it down to work related stress and was financially viable(engineer) to walk away from that environment.
Australia is a great country with relaxed population and great facilities/climate.
I am lucky to be here and likewise my family.
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 37
Likes: 60
From: usa
Yeah, I had a similar experience when I completed my recurrent. A sim/training captain shook my hand firmly and told me he couldn’t wait to do my upgrade. He was really genuinely looking forward to it. This guy was a retired US Navy pilot on F-18s and F-14s and a retired captain at United. I was humbled, and it really motivated me to do well.
At one of the kangaroo groups, on the other hand, a training captain who came up through the cadet program had the complete opposite attitude. It pretty much disgusted me. (Not that I have anything against cadets) The difference between the two cultures was night and day.
After a few more experiences like that, I decided to go back to the USA. A decision I’ve never regretted.
At one of the kangaroo groups, on the other hand, a training captain who came up through the cadet program had the complete opposite attitude. It pretty much disgusted me. (Not that I have anything against cadets) The difference between the two cultures was night and day.
After a few more experiences like that, I decided to go back to the USA. A decision I’ve never regretted.
Last edited by Staffypilot; 11th February 2025 at 07:31.
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 574
Likes: 429
From: Outbush
Yep, there is an absolute toxic training methodology in some airlines. Train by Checking. Sorry, that should be Train by Pendantic checking.
We have a great country, and great people. But aviation here is ferked thanks to a useless regulator (who know little about practical aviation), weak management (who seem not to want to deal with bullies), and the dreadful attitude of fellow pilots (who are focused solely on themselves). And how many unions? All fighting.
We have a great country, and great people. But aviation here is ferked thanks to a useless regulator (who know little about practical aviation), weak management (who seem not to want to deal with bullies), and the dreadful attitude of fellow pilots (who are focused solely on themselves). And how many unions? All fighting.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,381
Likes: 532
From: Somewhere
Accountants salaries haven't moved in 20 years here because of skilled migration.
The baseline problem in Australia is unlike the USA the talent pool is so large for a small number of jobs. This and CASA's culture is what drives the whole pedantic culture. It's not about meeting a standard it's about justifying that you should be employed. Noone would get away with that in a large labour market as people would just quit and go to the next guy.
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 218
From: Eden Valley
An elite cadre of 89ers in 2000, returned to Australia and introduced pay for your endorsement, sub-par wages compared to incumbents and a silliness to aviation- welcome Virgin Blue. They were paid less as training captains than F/O’s at QF or AN.
Australian aviation was done for!
Anyways went overseas and had a blast. Heaps of money allowed for an early retirement. The opportunity to fly in the US has me back flying and it’s the most fun I’ve had in my career. I don’t agree with everything they do nor aspects of American culture in aviation, though over all, they certainly are the chosen people for aviation opportunity.
Briefing an approach into SYD a few days ago with three other US pilots, the big threat was to get our callsign correct in Oztronaut airspace - was the flight number a three two or thirty two? Welcome to Australia mate!
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Not trying to stir the pot but just asking the question because I don't know the answer.
Where and in what sector of US aviation did you see "...everyone for themselves." ? Unionized airlines, non-union airlines, Part 135, something else ?
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 46
Likes: 12
From: Canada
From talking to US pilots, most are pretty happy with the career overall. Aviation there is the exception to the rest of "how the US works", I'd wager in no small part due to how united and involved their pilot body is
Last edited by AlphaVictorFoxtrot; 13th February 2025 at 00:35.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 169
Likes: 27
From: Melbourne
Yup, from the time I did over there it is striking how unified the pilot groups are and supportive most colleagues are. It's sad and frankly pathetic that over here we are quite happy to trample our own grandmothers at the expense of another pilot or group. And for many Aussies to still act like we invented aviation, the "Austronauts" were by far the worst ones I ever encountered in my time overseas...and there were a few of them.
Joined: Jul 2024
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From: Outbush
Joined: Sep 2019
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From: Mexico City
You can also just apply as a skilled migrant. No need for sponsorship.
Last edited by Climb150; 15th February 2025 at 12:00.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
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From: USA
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: On the water
Joined: Sep 2019
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From: Mexico City
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 574
Likes: 429
From: Outbush
Regarding the ATPL skill test (we don’t have check rides down here 😉
, that’s normally not a drama. If you can’t find an industry examiner, CASA flight standards will conduct / approve fairly readily (obviously at a cost).