Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

[btrdux]

It's been well established that ALPA isn't a fan of the E3. They've tried (unsuccessfully, though by the looks of it, not very hard either) to have it cut during the peak of the E3 hiring. But it appears it's taken a back seat to other issues now (the slowdown of E3 hiring to a trickle probably contributing)

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by LostWanderer

That being said, a lot of Australian guys and gals there are probably (in the near term) unemployable in Australian airlines anyway, When I was over there almost none had an Australian ATPL and most hadn't even attempted a single subject so probably stuck with what they can get short of converting or doing the exams. Doubt that has changed much either.

LW,

This just points out the place of a regional job in a pilot career: steppingstone. We all know that first job is usually the toughest to get and a regional job for this group of Aussies fills an important square. Regardless of how GoJet ranks among regionals (not too high I'm afraid), they still come away with TJ airline experience they can peddle elsewhere if not in the USA. Perhaps, experience they might not have gotten at home ? All in all, a positive situation.

As for the future of the E3 visa, I don't know but suspect it won't be changed much if at all. I think I recall that there are many E3 slots going unclaimed each year (at one time there was a proposal to let the Irish into the program to use up the unclaimed spots). So maybe the Imperial Federal Kakistocracy could make some symbolic "cuts" and not really affect the real-world outcome.

[Gnadenburg]

In 2005, in what is often perceived as having been a “thank you” for to Australia for its military support, President George W. Bush inaugurated what is known as the E-3 visa — a visa open exclusively to Australians that allows almost anyone with an appropriate job offer and a university degree to relocate to the United States, valid for two years and renewable indefinitely.

Whatever you think is Trump’s military strategy and however ambitiously you speculate that to be isolationist, the USA can’t give up the Western Pacific. I’m not here to give a long geo-political lesson, and remind folks how much trade and how much energy, flows through the critical maritime choke points to our north. Strategic competition or war in the Pacific with China, just like WW2, requires the geography of Australia. That’s why AUKUS will evolve considerably. It also draws the UK back East of Suez for its important role, not token ans nor just collaboratively, in the Indo-Pacific.

To tear up the E3 visa, in all its original Republican symbolism wouldn’t be worth the diplomatic absuridty and perhaps the controversy with the backdrop of the US-Australian alliance and evolving AUKUS.

What about the pilot market? Will they go to a special effort to “just ban” Aussie pilots from the E3 scheme. Everyone knows the majors will hire again and the shortage as significant as before.

I work for a company that has had 20% attrition when the majors hiring. Aussie attrition maybe a few % and they pass all their checks and don’t require months of additional training-hoovering up scarce resources. Many of local replacements ( for the locals that have left ) will leave too. Everyone knows this. And they leave without an ounce of loyalty, guilt or bond!

I also have an inkling, ALPA has surreptitiously with its machinations got the limits in recruiment it wants with the E3’s. This via actively having its reps lobby for changes in recruiment strategies.

I’ll put a bottle of Grange on the E3 Visa scheme not changing at all.

And the Irish are still in there with a shot! Two bills travelled to the House last month to let them take up the thousands of E3’s we annually don’t take up as Aussies.

[DUXNUTZ]

Originally Posted by Gnadenburg

Whatever you think is Trump’s military strategy and however ambitiously you speculate that to be isolationist, the USA can’t give up the Western Pacific. I’m not here to give a long geo-political lesson, and remind folks how much trade and how much energy, flows through the critical maritime choke points to our north. Strategic competition or war in the Pacific with China, just like WW2, requires the geography of Australia. That’s why AUKUS will evolve considerably. It also draws the UK back East of Suez for its important role, not token ans nor just collaboratively, in the Indo-Pacific.

To tear up the E3 visa, in all its original Republican symbolism wouldn’t be worth the diplomatic absuridty and perhaps the controversy with the backdrop of the US-Australian alliance and evolving AUKUS.

What about the pilot market? Will they go to a special effort to “just ban” Aussie pilots from the E3 scheme. Everyone knows the majors will hire again and the shortage as significant as before.

I work for a company that has had 20% attrition when the majors hiring. Aussie attrition maybe a few % and they pass all their checks and don’t require months of additional training-hoovering up scarce resources. Many of local replacements ( for the locals that have left ) will leave too. Everyone knows this. And they leave without an ounce of loyalty, guilt or bond!

I also have an inkling, ALPA has surreptitiously with its machinations got the limits in recruiment it wants with the E3’s. This via actively having its reps lobby for changes in recruiment strategies.

I’ll put a bottle of Grange on the E3 Visa scheme not changing at all.

And the Irish are still in there with a shot! Two bills travelled to the House last month to let them take up the thousands of E3’s we annually don’t take up as Aussies.

Might claim your Grange, one of the few guys to get terminated by my shop was an Aussie. Embarrassing to say the least given the small amount of Aussies hired.

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by DUXNUTZ

...one of the few guys to get terminated by my shop was an Aussie.

DUX,

Why was he terminated ? There are a few reasons that could happen...some unrelated to his E3 status.

[bafanguy]

Well, the purse fight has started over the "rumor" that Atlas is going to furlough. I haven't seen a documented source for that.

But the "Blind Men and the Elephant" are already at it about the E3s. In post #6 the first incorrect statement gets made:

"...want to hire people cheap labor from Australia..." A contract is a contract and Es get paid like US citizens. If that were not true, there'd be no reason to have a contract.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/a...an-pilots.html

[DUXNUTZ]

Originally Posted by bafanguy

DUX,

Why was he terminated ? There are a few reasons that could happen...some unrelated to his E3 status.

Attitude.

[dusty99]

Originally Posted by bafanguy

Well, the purse fight has started over the "rumor" that Atlas is going to furlough. I haven't seen a documented source for that.

But the "Blind Men and the Elephant" are already at it about the E3s. In post #6 the first incorrect statement gets made:

"...want to hire people cheap labor from Australia..." A contract is a contract and Es get paid like US citizens. If that were not true, there'd be no reason to have a contract.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/a...an-pilots.html

I'm not at Atlas but at another U.S. Cargo Operator, so I can't comment directly about Atlas, but I believe the view and position of that thread starter from my experience is the minority. This bloke is that American die hard who can't think outside the yankland box, just a pot stirrer.

[Verbal Kint]

And it’s ironic that many Aussies are flying in the US due (in part) to the actions of American scabs during the 89 dispute & downwards trajectory of the pilot profession in Oz ever since.

[Newhairdo]

Originally Posted by Verbal Kint

And it’s ironic that many Aussies are flying in the US due (in part) to the actions of American scabs during the 89 dispute & downwards trajectory of the pilot profession in Oz ever since.

Get a grip, that was 36 years ago. Half of the members in here were not even born then. Move on mate.
The reason why Ts & Cs are poor in Australia is that pilots are continually arguing with each other. Instead of being smart enough to get behind one union, there are at least 4 unions, possibly more. So there is zero unity.

[Verbal Kint]

I moved on a long time ago thanks …. mate.

i don’t disagree with your other points regarding lack of unity amongst pilots/unions in Australia. I was pointing out that it’s a little trite for the occasional US pilot to suggest Australians were coming over and taking their jobs/undercutting T & C’s given certain past events here.

[Newhairdo]

Originally Posted by Verbal Kint

I moved on a long time ago thanks …. mate.

i don’t disagree with your other points regarding lack of unity amongst pilots/unions in Australia. I was pointing out that it’s a little trite for the occasional US pilot to suggest Australians were coming over and taking their jobs/undercutting T & C’s given certain past events here.

Aussie pilots need to stop undercutting each other !
The Americans are very good at sticking together, even if they have some odd rules

[Staffypilot]

Originally Posted by Newhairdo

Aussie pilots need to stop undercutting each other !
The Americans are very good at sticking together, even if they have some odd rules

I couldn’t agree with you more and here is my take on the difference in pilot culture: USA vs. Australia.

One of the biggest lessons I learned from flying in the United States was the camaraderie and support among pilots, something I felt was missing in Australia. This was quite surprising, as I had expected the opposite. I flew for one airline in Australia and two in the USA, and my experience highlighted a stark contrast in workplace culture. In the U.S., the aviation industry fosters an inclusive, team-oriented environment where pilots encourage and help each other rather than compete. There’s a strong sense of teamwork, mentorship, and shared growth, and I never felt like I had to prove myself or deal with condescending attitudes.

This was a stark contrast to what I experienced in Australia, where the aviation industry often felt more cutthroat and individualistic. Instead of teamwork, there was more of an “I’m better than you” mentality, and at times, even backstabbing. Whether it was due to limited opportunities, a smaller industry, or cultural differences, the professional environment in Australia felt less welcoming.

I was often undermined or treated as if I knew nothing, especially by veteran Captains who had been flying for the same airline for 14-20 years. This attitude created unnecessary pressure during training and, at times, even on the line. I found this to be systemic across Australian aviation, though, even in the flight schools and the small 210 charter companies up North. Instead of focusing on building skills and confidence, I found there was a culture of weeding people out rather than developing them. In contrast, in the U.S., training was more structured, professional, and focused on improvement. If you didn’t know or understand something, they would show you—All you need is the right attitude, and they will give you the tools and support to succeed.

Another key difference I noticed was the level of stress placed on pilots. In Australia, the training environment was error-critical to the point of being excessive. It created unnecessary stress, making pilots more worried about not making mistakes rather than genuinely improving their skills. When I trained in the U.S., I felt far less stressed and worried because the philosophy was about developing pilots, not trying to catch them out. Those who worked together as a team often succeeded, and teamwork was actively encouraged during and after training.

One of the most striking differences was how pilots are checked to the line:

• In Australia, I had to be checked to line in 100 hours, followed by further training before being checked again at 120-130 hours, with additional requirements beyond that.

• In the USA, I was told I would be checked to line in 25 hours. I ended up being checked in 30 hours—a reasonable timeframe with a clear progression path.

The American approach was far more efficient while still ensuring pilots were competent and continued to learn. A key reason for this was that Captains in the U.S. were also seen as part of the training process, helping new pilots consolidate their skills after being checked to line.

The philosophy in the U.S. was that learning doesn’t stop once you’re checked to line—all Captains, whether they were training Captains or not, had a different approach to mentorship and assessment. Some Captains would micromanage, but it was always done respectfully, and the support continued as you gained experience. This created a more confident, capable pilot rather than one who constantly felt undermined or pressured.

Flying in the U.S. was simply more fun and challenging. You get real weather, complex airspace, and experience flying into some of the busiest airports in the world. Every day, I felt like I was learning and improving, but I was also enjoying the job and looking forward to going to work.

Pilots in the U.S. seemed genuinely happier, and that enthusiasm carried over into how they treated others. The work environment felt more relaxed yet still professional, allowing pilots to focus on improving their skills rather than feeling constantly judged.

There was also a huge difference in pay and union effectiveness. In the U.S, there was better seniority, pay, and the union actually worked to make a real difference for pilots. In Australia, the union and seniority structure often felt ineffective, and pilots didn’t see real changes being made.

Another major difference was how First Officers were treated. In the U.S. an FO is seen as a Captain in training, and that mentality is reflected in daily operations. There’s a real sense of teamwork, where Captains actively mentor their FOs and treat them as equals where seeing a 23 year old becoming a captain was not uncommon.

Captains with many years of experience at the same company would welcome you to speak up, saying:

“We’re both a team. I’m just like you. The only difference between us is that I’ve been here longer.”

They made it clear that they were human too, not superior, and that they valued teamwork over hierarchy. This was incredibly motivating and helped create a positive cockpit environment where you felt respected and supported.

In Australia, I never got this treatment. Instead, I experienced a lot of ego, condescending attitudes, and dismissive behavior from Captains, Training Captains, and management. There was often a feeling of “know your place,” rather than an attitude of “we’re in this together.”

What Can Australians Learn from the U.S. Approach?

This is a different philosophy, and I believe Australians could learn a lot from it. Aviation should be about mentorship, progression, and continuous learning, not just about making the cut. When pilots are given the tools to improve, they become more confident, competent, and ultimately safer.

[DUXNUTZ]

Thoroughly agree. My experience as well. Back on the E3 visa thing, I’m not surprised if it comes under scrutiny when you have a bunch of people that didn’t meet the requirements using it to come over and join the ranks. Many didn’t have a degree nor the years required in leu of.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Great post Staffy. You touched on some really good points and areas for improvement in our profession in Australia.

[Newhairdo]

Spot on Staffy.
Your experience in the USA is mirrored in Europe and in the Far East.
It’s only the Austronaut attitude that is toxic. If you look at the root cause, you can likely chase this back to 1989. I reckon that things will start to improve once the dreadful blue shirt influence declines.

[Lookleft]

It probably has a lot to do with the chip on the shoulder a lot of Australian pilots carry and the willingness to blame everyone else for their problems. If you think that the passing of Ansett pilots from the airlines are going to improve things then you have just proved my point.

[Verbal Kint]

Originally Posted by Newhairdo

Spot on Staffy.
Your experience in the USA is mirrored in Europe and in the Far East.
It’s only the Austronaut attitude that is toxic. If you look at the root cause, you can likely chase this back to 1989. I reckon that things will start to improve once the dreadful blue shirt influence declines.

I thought we’d move on from ‘89, mate?

[Verbal Kint]

Similar experience for me Oz > US.

Here it’s more a culture of ‘professionals helping professionals’. I nearly fell of my chair when the examiner shook my hand & said he was looking forward to working with me on my FAA ATP Checkride.

ALPA has a lot of buy-in & oversight of check & training, which no doubt helps. I do ALPA work on the side and have seen first hand the level of engagement.

I generally didn’t get the same vibe in OZ (Hong Kong is even worse). Apologies to the (many) great folks I did encounter along the way though .

[Stilllearning1234]

Wow!, Perfectly summed up. My experience flying in Australia.