Australian pilots can work for US regionals.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 231
Likes: 45
From: In the soup
Most American pilots commute to their base too. Sure, they get paid way more, but they get furloughed more too. And the market is totally different, with several “premier” carriers. It’s been a while since I’ve heard anyone claim that QF is a premier carrier. That made me laugh, but I get your point.
I wonder how ‘normal’ (ie non QF pilots) people in Sydney and Melbourne manage to get by on lower wages. How does that work for them?
I wonder how ‘normal’ (ie non QF pilots) people in Sydney and Melbourne manage to get by on lower wages. How does that work for them?
As for "normal people" and their earnings. They don't launch into the sky with $1B worth of liability every day. Nor are their careers threatened every 6 months with check rides, or every year with medicals. Nor do they spend their 20s out in the desert flying 40 year old death traps for peanuts to finally get a sniff at something resembling the peak earning potential of their career.
This is one of my few criticisms of Australian culture, is the desire to cut everyone down to be average like everyone else. I don't think Australian pilots are average by any stretch. The career path is uniquely difficult, and I think the top jobs should be on parity with their global peers. There's nothing really special or different about Qantas compared to the US legacies, save that Qantas has the absolute lion's share of market capacity in Australia compared the their US counterparts.
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 174
Likes: 20
From: Sydney
No bait intended ,although certain Michael O’Leary comes to mind ,who single handlely cut conditions for aircrew worldwide through Ryanair.
Is Ryanair one of the most profitable airline worldwide?
Zero contract hours,paying $50k for type rating, with pilots lining up to pay it .
Is Ryanair one of the most profitable airline worldwide?
Zero contract hours,paying $50k for type rating, with pilots lining up to pay it .
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
Likes: 190
From: nowhere
why should a ozzie pilot get paid **** money just because the other ozzies do? is it acceptable for a pilot to rent for life or buy a **** box apartment because how does everybody else in sydney do it? ffs who cares what the average wage is, being a pilot is not your average job
bull**** like this could only come from boomers who bought their sydney inner city mansion for a couple of hundred k and do nothing but complain how hard it was for them too
id like to see them try again now
bull**** like this could only come from boomers who bought their sydney inner city mansion for a couple of hundred k and do nothing but complain how hard it was for them too
id like to see them try again now
Last edited by directsosij; 3rd December 2024 at 03:48.
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 174
Likes: 20
From: Sydney
Apartment prices in Mascot back to 2014 levels-u can get 3 bedroom for $1m.
Is that a shoebox apartment?
We live in a 2 bedroom apartment for our family with rooftop, in ground pool and gym ,4km from city/airport.
Bought 15 years ago and now ,mortgage free ,but interestingly apartment prices are back to 2014 levels from our area to
Mascot.
Houses are different though ,and very expensive to buy ,but rentals from $1300 pw.
Sydney is a very expensive city to live property wise, irrespective of your career choice ,and we settled on an apartment ,because give us space to live rather than be at beck and call of massive mortgage.
To be honest, we couldn’t and still cannot afford to buy a house without taking on massive mortgage ,but very happy with apartment living.
Is that a shoebox apartment?
We live in a 2 bedroom apartment for our family with rooftop, in ground pool and gym ,4km from city/airport.
Bought 15 years ago and now ,mortgage free ,but interestingly apartment prices are back to 2014 levels from our area to
Mascot.
Houses are different though ,and very expensive to buy ,but rentals from $1300 pw.
Sydney is a very expensive city to live property wise, irrespective of your career choice ,and we settled on an apartment ,because give us space to live rather than be at beck and call of massive mortgage.
To be honest, we couldn’t and still cannot afford to buy a house without taking on massive mortgage ,but very happy with apartment living.
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 574
Likes: 429
From: Outbush
why should a ozzie pilot get paid **** money just because the other ozzies do? is it acceptable for a pilot to rent for life or buy a **** box apartment because how does everybody else in sydney do it? ffs who cares what the average wage is, being a pilot is not your average job
bull**** like this could only come from boomers who bought their sydney inner city mansion for a couple of hundred k and do nothing but complain how hard it was for them too
id like to see them try again now
bull**** like this could only come from boomers who bought their sydney inner city mansion for a couple of hundred k and do nothing but complain how hard it was for them too
id like to see them try again now
Joined: Jun 2021
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 1
Likes: 429
From: DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA (DPRWA)
No people are tired of arguing with reason and using diplomacy. The age of diplomacy and tolerance is over, it clearly doesn't work, and it seems the only way to get a point across these days is through aggression. Just recently to get an ongoing 3 month saga brought to a conclusion, I had to threaten theft and legal action along with endless profanity. Today it seems people will only listen when they are threatened. Should it be like this? No of course not, but we live in a world where everyone from Politics, to certain demographics and large corporations to individual pricks will only act or step into line when an endless barage of abuse is sent their way. People are out of patience and that means tolerance is dead. Just look to Qantas, endless aggression is used against its staff, yet the staff until recently have always tried to be reasonable and tolerant. You cannot fight endless abuse and aggression with peace and love, it must be fought with an equal and opposite reaction, if not an even greater reaction.
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 574
Likes: 429
From: Outbush
No people are tired of arguing with reason and using diplomacy. The age of diplomacy and tolerance is over, it clearly doesn't work, and it seems the only way to get a point across these days is through aggression. Just recently to get an ongoing 3 month saga brought to a conclusion, I had to threaten theft and legal action along with endless profanity. Today it seems people will only listen when they are threatened. Should it be like this? No of course not, but we live in a world where everyone from Politics, to certain demographics and large corporations to individual pricks will only act or step into line when an endless barage of abuse is sent their way. People are out of patience and that means tolerance is dead. Just look to Qantas, endless aggression is used against its staff, yet the staff until recently have always tried to be reasonable and tolerant. You cannot fight endless abuse and aggression with peace and love, it must be fought with an equal and opposite reaction, if not an even greater reaction.
We obviously inhabit different worlds.
Good luck in yours
Joined: Jun 2021
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 1
Likes: 429
From: DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA (DPRWA)
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
Likes: 190
From: nowhere
those joining the industry now are in for a very different experience than those who are soon to depart it
i wouldn’t recommend this career to anyone. basic office workers make more than a regional jet FO
go and look at seek and let me know if you still think we are appropriately paid
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 174
Likes: 20
From: Sydney
The flying schools will not tell you this reality.
They will showcase recruits in their FO uniforms or even a few with a few extra stripes on their arm.
How much does it cost if u go flight degree route/flying school to airline pilot.
I know a guy now 30 who got aviation degree, doing skydiving runs l,ooking for his break into aviation industry.
His parents supported his training costs.
It is a race to the bottom irrespective of airline.
This is not only related to pilots.
I know accountants CPA qualified 25 years earning $100k whilst Sydney bus drivers make more and offering $6k inducement to start training.
It is a strange world we live in now.
They will showcase recruits in their FO uniforms or even a few with a few extra stripes on their arm.
How much does it cost if u go flight degree route/flying school to airline pilot.
I know a guy now 30 who got aviation degree, doing skydiving runs l,ooking for his break into aviation industry.
His parents supported his training costs.
It is a race to the bottom irrespective of airline.
This is not only related to pilots.
I know accountants CPA qualified 25 years earning $100k whilst Sydney bus drivers make more and offering $6k inducement to start training.
It is a strange world we live in now.
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 192
Likes: 55
From: HK
New E3s are likely DOA for the foreseeable future. Hiring has slowed significantly at the big 3 legacies due to A/c delivery delays. Most of the majors are no longer hiring at all, and several of the struggling airlines are actively furloughing or about to go through bankruptcy.
GoJet is taking E3s, although the pilots who have heard back are already stateside on E3s and have hundreds of FAA 121 hours. They offer a nice bonus too. Commutair is also still taking E3’s. Skywest will if you’re willing to sign that horrendous 5 year contract. Frontier offering interviews to current E3 holders but unsure about class dates, they also have a 60k 2 year contract.
Atlas hiring is paused until at least Q1 2025. Kalitta is not hiring E3’s for the rest of 2024 due to government contract requirements, may change in the new year.
This information is all from the last month from close friends who are being furloughed from the big yellow bus and on the job hunt.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 192
Likes: 55
From: HK
Yep, those I know applying have one or more FAA types with a good amount of FAA 121 time. My apologies, I should’ve been more specific!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 558
Likes: 12
From: Oz
Back on topic…
GoJet is taking E3s, although the pilots who have heard back are already stateside on E3s and have hundreds of FAA 121 hours. They offer a nice bonus too. Commutair is also still taking E3’s. Skywest will if you’re willing to sign that horrendous 5 year contract. Frontier offering interviews to current E3 holders but unsure about class dates, they also have a 60k 2 year contract.
Atlas hiring is paused until at least Q1 2025. Kalitta is not hiring E3’s for the rest of 2024 due to government contract requirements, may change in the new year.
This information is all from the last month from close friends who are being furloughed from the big yellow bus and on the job hunt.
GoJet is taking E3s, although the pilots who have heard back are already stateside on E3s and have hundreds of FAA 121 hours. They offer a nice bonus too. Commutair is also still taking E3’s. Skywest will if you’re willing to sign that horrendous 5 year contract. Frontier offering interviews to current E3 holders but unsure about class dates, they also have a 60k 2 year contract.
Atlas hiring is paused until at least Q1 2025. Kalitta is not hiring E3’s for the rest of 2024 due to government contract requirements, may change in the new year.
This information is all from the last month from close friends who are being furloughed from the big yellow bus and on the job hunt.
I’d probably go home (back to Oz) than work for Gojet (history and all). New administration prob even money to nuke the E3 program anyhow.
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 59
Likes: 15
From: Cairns
Most aussies at Gojet enjoy it, many are captains now. It's no worse than any other 121 regional. A fair few furloughees at Spirit are looking to return as DEC.
As for the incoming administration, since they didn't touch the E3s from 2016-20, I'd take you up on that bet.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 169
Likes: 27
From: Melbourne
Most aussies at Gojet enjoy it, many are captains now. It's no worse than any other 121 regional. A fair few furloughees at Spirit are looking to return as DEC.
As for the incoming administration, since they didn't touch the E3s from 2016-20, I'd take you up on that bet.
As for the incoming administration, since they didn't touch the E3s from 2016-20, I'd take you up on that bet.
That being said, a lot of Australian guys and gals there are probably (in the near term) unemployable in Australian airlines anyway, When I was over there almost none had an Australian ATPL and most hadn't even attempted a single subject so probably stuck with what they can get short of converting or doing the exams. Doubt that has changed much either.
Personally, I believe E3s will get a much closer look at having the actual qualifications they are meant to have, unlike in the past where applications got glanced over and approved. Trump owns the government now and is even more hardline on immigration and the American jobs for Americans rhetoric than last term so who knows how it will all play out. Hope all the furloughed find their feet somewhere, sounds more and more like Spirit will be gone for good by early next year.
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 218
From: Eden Valley
What’s the logic of your view?
I’d go the other way. E3 safe and barley noticeable. Tearing up the agreement would be a poor decision in light of the original Free Trade Agreement and especially advancements in AUKUS.
20,000 Aussies are on E3. Many are in critical and lucrative fields. Then there’s us. Pilots.
I’d go the other way. E3 safe and barley noticeable. Tearing up the agreement would be a poor decision in light of the original Free Trade Agreement and especially advancements in AUKUS.
20,000 Aussies are on E3. Many are in critical and lucrative fields. Then there’s us. Pilots.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 609
Likes: 112
From: Eagles Nest
American military pouring equipment and personnel into northern Australia , nuclear subs soon to be based in Australia. Trump already briefed on benefits of AUKUS agreement. Anything possible but my money is on FTA ( E3) to continue .
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 558
Likes: 12
From: Oz
What’s the logic of your view?
I’d go the other way. E3 safe and barley noticeable. Tearing up the agreement would be a poor decision in light of the original Free Trade Agreement and especially advancements in AUKUS.
20,000 Aussies are on E3. Many are in critical and lucrative fields. Then there’s us. Pilots.
I’d go the other way. E3 safe and barley noticeable. Tearing up the agreement would be a poor decision in light of the original Free Trade Agreement and especially advancements in AUKUS.
20,000 Aussies are on E3. Many are in critical and lucrative fields. Then there’s us. Pilots.
I wouldn’t say those on current E3s would worry, it’s the renewal and initial issue that would grind to a halt. Quite frankly, with spirit furloughing that should automatically halt new issuances anyhow. Renewals would continue. Curious how ALPA feel about this and what their position is.