Air NZ announcement
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You have to admit, the links have been hiring at an obscene rate over the last 18 months..it was a once or twice in a generation feeding frenzy. The GA ranks were decimated (probably a good thing because GA is on its last legs now)
..and now one of the links is left off the Christmas list and a hundred seasoned link pilots are told they'll have to reapply for their jobs?!
..and now one of the links is left off the Christmas list and a hundred seasoned link pilots are told they'll have to reapply for their jobs?!
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They're also planning on keeping about 10 1900's flying until the lights go out which is about 80 Pilots who can't all fit into a training programme overnight.
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Justice
Having experienced the 'Eagle' empire a few years back, all I can say is that commonsense and justice has finally arrived. I flew from the cuckoos nest as fast as I could as soon as I could. There were some great YOUNG guys and gals, but the management and senior Instrs - words do not exist nor time and space allow to even give a short prologue of what could and should be written on the 'Eagle Empire'. Never in my whole aviation career spanning 40yrs and 6 continents did I experience another shambles run by demonic Gods found in Eagle. The faster ANZ cleans out the closet - DIRECTLY to the waste bin and bonfire, the better for all young pilots in NZ.
Aeolus2000BC do tell! Now that it is all in the past, and having been through their Astronaut recruitment hoopla a long time ago (and rejected
) with a somewhat bizarre interview, I am a little curious as to what lay behind the walls of the "Eagle Empire".
Slice.
) with a somewhat bizarre interview, I am a little curious as to what lay behind the walls of the "Eagle Empire". Slice.
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Aeolus2000BC, as has already been mentioned Eagle has gone through a huge amount of change, especially in the last 18 months. I am not sure when you worked at Eagle, but the last 18 months have seen a total change in guard at management and at a training level, the addition of a sim and considerable about of working to come in line with the rest of the group. Quoting a post from 2012, I can categorically assure you reflects very little of what the job at Eagle is like today.
At the end of the day there are a lot of people who enjoy Eagle, especially given the recent considerable improvements and/or enjoy where they live outside of a main centre. From my understanding it looks like those that what a job remaining in the group have a pretty good shot by the time it all comes to an end in 2016. However for some the transfer / relocation is not as easy as it is for others and it will be a long next 18 months for some as they work out what the future holds.
At the end of the day there are a lot of people who enjoy Eagle, especially given the recent considerable improvements and/or enjoy where they live outside of a main centre. From my understanding it looks like those that what a job remaining in the group have a pretty good shot by the time it all comes to an end in 2016. However for some the transfer / relocation is not as easy as it is for others and it will be a long next 18 months for some as they work out what the future holds.
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Change the GUARD ?
Scon,
I just heard from a colleague here - yes that means its second hand info from a recent departee from Eagle - but this is a RUMUOR network - a very experienced jet Capt -worldwide- and an ex CFI F/O (two pers) both left the Big E 2yrs ago due to 'training issues'. What is being said is a Trg Capt refused to fly with the jet Capt as he 'was not current flying in the NZ IFR area'. What the F does that mean ?????? One would have thought the Trg Capt was there to TRAIN. One would presume the jet Capt was current in flying where ever his last job was?
Now the biggest laugh is the Trg Capt then said the jet Capt had to do a Part 61 Inst Rating before continuing with the B1900 trg- yep - thats a severe turbulence laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ex CFI F/O was told he could not fly a SID ????????????????
-but its understood he was the CFI of a major school approved by Air NZ as one of their 'preferred training providers'??????????
Sounds to me the gremlins/dragons are still in the closet?
- or did they resign after Miles P took office ??
Ciao.
I just heard from a colleague here - yes that means its second hand info from a recent departee from Eagle - but this is a RUMUOR network - a very experienced jet Capt -worldwide- and an ex CFI F/O (two pers) both left the Big E 2yrs ago due to 'training issues'. What is being said is a Trg Capt refused to fly with the jet Capt as he 'was not current flying in the NZ IFR area'. What the F does that mean ?????? One would have thought the Trg Capt was there to TRAIN. One would presume the jet Capt was current in flying where ever his last job was?
Now the biggest laugh is the Trg Capt then said the jet Capt had to do a Part 61 Inst Rating before continuing with the B1900 trg- yep - thats a severe turbulence laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ex CFI F/O was told he could not fly a SID ????????????????
-but its understood he was the CFI of a major school approved by Air NZ as one of their 'preferred training providers'??????????
Sounds to me the gremlins/dragons are still in the closet?
- or did they resign after Miles P took office ??
Ciao.
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both left the Big E 2yrs ago
Perhaps also remember there's two sides to every story. Not that I'm defending the old ways of Eagle, but it sounds like some 'attitudes' at play from what you describe. It's a tough ask for any very experienced pilot to join an airline like Eagle. It would require a lot of humility.
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I'll second the two sides to that story! Way more at play there than what has been described...
Lots has changed in the past few years. It's a real shame it came too late for many years of happy operations and happy operators.
Lots has changed in the past few years. It's a real shame it came too late for many years of happy operations and happy operators.
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Last I heard Air NZ Jet might be starting a few at the end of the year with interviews resuming in 2016. I guess it all depends on when they finish retiring the 737 and start retiring the 767 as those crews will need a new fleet... the S/O's on the 777 are working pretty hard at the moment, so there should be some movement from the hold file
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As Ruddder Sir correctly pointed out in regard to my previous post, allot has changed at Eagle in the last 18 months. The old Eagle training 'war' stories are well known around the traps but harping on about how bad 'my mates, mate said it was 5 years ago' doesn't do much for the 100+ current Eagle pilots nor play much relevance to the current organisation and those that have put in the effort to improve it.
I believe the statement regarding starts to the Air NZ jet is correct, I thought it applied to all yes letters from the regionals but not 100% sure. I guess any movement should hopefully be good news for those at Eagle in regard to job prospects though.
I believe the statement regarding starts to the Air NZ jet is correct, I thought it applied to all yes letters from the regionals but not 100% sure. I guess any movement should hopefully be good news for those at Eagle in regard to job prospects though.
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But there's still a lot wrong. 3 monthly Sim checks being one of them.
No matter how you do something, you'll always have detractors. It would be nice if they had some reasonable basis for it though!
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For sure - little c big T
About half our sim time is used for training - some of it LOFT, some specific exercises and much of it directed by the pilots. All of the time is aimed at development - whether it's training or proficiency.
If you spread the mandatory check items over twice as many checks, there are half as many to do each check
Many of our checks don't include engine failures, for instance, and are based around the line-oriented scenarios you describe, which I agree are invaluable - whether it's presented as LOFT or LOE doesn't really matter, if it's delivered properly.
About half our sim time is used for training - some of it LOFT, some specific exercises and much of it directed by the pilots. All of the time is aimed at development - whether it's training or proficiency.
If you spread the mandatory check items over twice as many checks, there are half as many to do each check
Many of our checks don't include engine failures, for instance, and are based around the line-oriented scenarios you describe, which I agree are invaluable - whether it's presented as LOFT or LOE doesn't really matter, if it's delivered properly.
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'Attitude Problem'
This thread has raised a 'little' discussion amongst ex Eagle and other Kiwi pilots here.
I remember hearing about a Jet Pilot getting washed out a few years ago. Eagle being Eagle threw him in the deep end (direct entry command) and expected nothing less than NASA test pilot standards. Little did he realize, Eagle don't train Pilots they only Check them and your experience counts for nothing when surrounded by Astronauts. I did hear he had an "attitude problem" but who wouldn't in that environment? Was all Chinese whispers of course... but I can see it happening. Transitioning from Prop to Jet or vice versa does take some getting used to as it's a completely different skill set. Without inflating any Eagle ego's... I imagine it would pretty hard work stepping back into that kind of operation, and perhaps there was a lack of understanding (from both parties) to that effect. Perhaps 2-3 months in the RHS, or an extra months line training in the LHS would of made all the difference.
- expected nothing less than NASA test pilot standards
- Eagle don't train Pilots they only Check them
Well observed comments. This is the real issue. Eagle Mgt and some Training Capts were Demonic 'Gods' who think they are above all.
ie. recommending the jet Capt do a part 61 Inst Rating (basic Instrument Rating in a light piston twin) before continuing with the B1900 training. (Thats what we hear was said- albeit 2nd/3rd hand)
and 'stop the training due not being current flying IFR in NZ'
I fly for one of the real Big E's - and flying IFR in NZ is (surprise surprise) NO DIFFERENT than flying IFR anywhere else in the world! Does NZ get Sand storms/freezing rain or fog/snow 1.0m deep ? Yes WLG is a little bumpy on windy days - but no different than many other places around the world. The jet Capt in question we believe (know) had flown in NZ previously so what was the Trg Capts issue ?
We understand the jet Capt complied with the CAA requirements for licence conversion ie.
- Medical
- Pass ATPL Law exam
- Pass Flight Test
but it seems the Trg Capt made up his own requirements and refused to TRAIN for the Flight Test. He is a TRAINING Capt so was required to TRAIN. As pointed out above - Eagle do not train, they only CHECK. This is the real issue.
So who had the REAL 'attitude problem' ?
Ciao.
I remember hearing about a Jet Pilot getting washed out a few years ago. Eagle being Eagle threw him in the deep end (direct entry command) and expected nothing less than NASA test pilot standards. Little did he realize, Eagle don't train Pilots they only Check them and your experience counts for nothing when surrounded by Astronauts. I did hear he had an "attitude problem" but who wouldn't in that environment? Was all Chinese whispers of course... but I can see it happening. Transitioning from Prop to Jet or vice versa does take some getting used to as it's a completely different skill set. Without inflating any Eagle ego's... I imagine it would pretty hard work stepping back into that kind of operation, and perhaps there was a lack of understanding (from both parties) to that effect. Perhaps 2-3 months in the RHS, or an extra months line training in the LHS would of made all the difference.
- expected nothing less than NASA test pilot standards
- Eagle don't train Pilots they only Check them
Well observed comments. This is the real issue. Eagle Mgt and some Training Capts were Demonic 'Gods' who think they are above all.
ie. recommending the jet Capt do a part 61 Inst Rating (basic Instrument Rating in a light piston twin) before continuing with the B1900 training. (Thats what we hear was said- albeit 2nd/3rd hand)
and 'stop the training due not being current flying IFR in NZ'
I fly for one of the real Big E's - and flying IFR in NZ is (surprise surprise) NO DIFFERENT than flying IFR anywhere else in the world! Does NZ get Sand storms/freezing rain or fog/snow 1.0m deep ? Yes WLG is a little bumpy on windy days - but no different than many other places around the world. The jet Capt in question we believe (know) had flown in NZ previously so what was the Trg Capts issue ?
We understand the jet Capt complied with the CAA requirements for licence conversion ie.
- Medical
- Pass ATPL Law exam
- Pass Flight Test
but it seems the Trg Capt made up his own requirements and refused to TRAIN for the Flight Test. He is a TRAINING Capt so was required to TRAIN. As pointed out above - Eagle do not train, they only CHECK. This is the real issue.
So who had the REAL 'attitude problem' ?
Ciao.