Eagle Airways Ltd

[Gwan B Yirheid]

For anyone considering a career in aviation DO NOT JOIN EAGLE. You WILL regret it. They have ruined and tried to ruin too many careers.

If they ever get rid of their Training and Standards Manager then the culture may change but until then do not go there. If you've done the R2G interview wait for Mount Cook or Air Nelson.

Getting sh@fted by GA for an extra 6months is far better than having your whole career ruined by Eagle.

Had to be said.

GBY

[waren9]

Listing your reasons why might save this thread from being locked... but I doubt it.

[27/09]

I thought it was a pretty happy camp at Eagle.

Perhaps a bit more info to back up your claim might help you stop looking like a lonely disgruntled pirate.

[tail wheel]

Perhaps a bit more info to back up your claim might help you stop looking like a lonely disgruntled pirate.

He/she is in the Eastern Archipelago. We’ll give him until sunrise in the Western Island to provide facts or………….. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/Closed-1.gif

[hownowbrowncow]

I think he is referring to the very high failure rate of checks, and he isn't wrong...

[prospector]

Perhaps the failure rate relates to the standard of people presenting for check rides??

Whatever, this is not the place to vent such a diatribe.

Getting sh@fted by GA for an extra 6 months is far better than having your whole career ruined by Eagle.

I would think that that statement alone says it all as to where where you are coming from.

[mattyj]

maybe its just the fact you worked for eagle..:}

[hownowbrowncow]

Perhaps the failure rate relates to the standard of people presenting for check rides??

Yea, these guys are so bad that they are getting into PB, J* and Cathay shortly after getting shafted by Eagle's awesome C&T system :D

The thing to remember though, is these guys haven't had their careers ruined from failing checks or upgrades, so keep your head up!

[prospector]

Yea, these guys are so bad that they are getting into PB, J* and Cathay shortly after getting shafted by Eagle's awesome C&T system


What then is the problem?? surely the Eagle C&T bloke is doing them a favour???

[Gate_15L]

Don't forget, there is life after Eagle... and Eagle doesn't represent 95% of what it's like working for other operators... nor NASA...

There is no C & T system at Eagle, it's all c and no T... and to have such a high failure rate reflects very badly on the training system and not necessarily the trainee...
Big egos.. small aircraft... for fcuk sakes.. it's a B1900!

[haughtney1]

As a general principle, this stuff tends to happen in places that have promoted people beyond their capabilities and/or in smaller operators with a comparatively high turnover.
It's nice to hear thought that the good old Kiwi knocking machine is still in action, the trainers are probably just p1ssed off at having younger, smarter and quicker witted whippersnappers showing them up for being a bunch of pedantic nitpickers with over inflated ego's :E
Not much change at Eagle interstellar Airways then :8

[Sarcs]

There is no C & T system at Eagle, it's all c and no T... and to have such a high failure rate reflects very badly on the training system and not necessarily the trainee...


Gee that sounds familiar!:ugh: Maybe there is an echo in here, never ceases to amaze me how small operators always employ the worst T&C staff, then they wonder why they have such a high turn over of aircrew!:}

[minimum_wage]

With Air NZ recruit to group now you may end up at Eagle regardless of your first choice.

[mattyj]

Nah whoever needs drivers gets to send up someone to sit on the panel..they have a 33% say in your fate so eagle will probably still be able to weed out most ordinary candidates

[27/09]

Hmmm, plenty of knocking going on here. How bad is the failure rate at Eagle? Does anyone have any hard figures to compare with other places or just hearsay?

A little birdie yells me that there's been some failures at the other link carriers recently. Is the recruit to group process part of the problem?

[waren9]

Possibly it is.

HR types hiring candidates into a postition they know nothing about.

[Boney]

This happened to a mate of mine.


They went for an Eagle interview which went pretty well except for a medium sized stuff up in the Sim.

Fast forward a year or two.

Interview with Air NZ. It went pretty well too, overall. Told we won't employ you due to the Eagle effort.

Pretty unfair, me thinks!

[NZCPL]

I spent a few years at eagle
Their training system has improved significantly and now very fair. If you are a muppet then you won't get thru ...fair enough....plenty of those around....Gotta know your stuff as this is arguebly the most challenging flying you will do in your career....with responsibility....short sectors..lots of wx...no AP.. Uncontrolled airspace.. Etc.

[prospector]

If you are a muppet then you won't get thru ...fair enough....plenty of those around....

Perhaps something to do with the student loan scheme?? from what I have heard and experienced, there is no IQ test, no aptitude test prior to loans being granted.

May even go further than that because of changes in the education system where nobody ever fails at school because to do so would "bruise" your self esteem etc etc etc. When one gets out into the big world no such cotton wool protection exists, and that is the way it has to be if you require jobs that put the publics safety in your, hopefully, capable hands.

[hownowbrowncow]

How bad is the failure rate at Eagle? Does anyone have any hard figures to compare with other places or just hearsay?

At one point last year and the it was something stupid like more than 70% of candidates failing their command upgrade at the first try, then most passing at the second.

Is the recruit to group process part of the problem?

Don't think so, thats only been up and running for around 6 months and the poor pass rate was around before that.

I spent a few years at eagle
Their training system has improved significantly and now very fair. If you are a muppet then you won't get thru

There are many good pilots out there who would disagree with you!

[hownowbrowncow]

Historically, Eagle got a lot of it's Pilots from the flying schools, and in many (not all) cases, they needed to fail a few checks to wake them up. Flying in the RHS of Duchess for a year or 2 doesn't make you god's gift to Aviation.

Historically, people were doing commands within 12 months. That has not been the case the last couple of years due to the recession, people have been waiting ages and have a few thousand hours in the beech, so a few thousand hours in a bongo is gonna make no difference in my opinion.

And while I'm sure your mates enjoyed their time, speak to guys there now and you will probably find morale isn't the highest it's been. I'm not saying the job is terrible, but pretty much anyone in the company will agree that the training is lacking and some of the checking is a bit dubious. Come on guys, back me up!

[prospector]

Historically, people were doing commands within 12 months. That has not been the case the last couple of years due to the recession, people have been waiting ages and have a few thousand hours in the beech, so a few thousand hours in a bongo is gonna make no difference in my opinion.

If you do not like where you are at, then the solution is in your hands, go to some other RPT carrier where you will, perhaps, and then again perhaps not, get a command within 12 months. Or perhaps go somewhere that operates single pilot IFR scheduled services, not usually a lot of in house training in those outfits though.
but, if as you would appear to want, it will be all command time.

[hownowbrowncow]

I wasn't saying I wanted a command, I meant that saying these guys are failing because they think they are 'gods gift' and aren't experienced because they havn't done any 135 time is rubbish. They have a few thousand hours in the beech so are plenty experienced. And prospector, NZ is a very small place, there aren't many opyions when it comes to changing employers...

[prospector]

. And prospector, NZ is a very small place, there aren't many opyions when it comes to changing employers

Exactly, so one must play by the rules of the few that are here if one wishes to progress, not always easy granted, but even the right seat of the Beech is better than no seat at all.

[big buddah]

"Gotta know your stuff as this is arguebly the most challenging flying you will do in your career....with responsibility....short sectors..lots of wx...no AP.. Uncontrolled airspace.. Etc."

Blah Blah Blah......... Eagle Astronaut. It's a big wide world out there & there's nothing (hard) special about flying a turbo prop around NZ.

[Shredder6]

Do they still have a four day interview process???

:ugh:

[remoak]

arguebly the most challenging flying you will do in your career....with responsibility....short sectors..lots of wx...no AP.. Uncontrolled airspace.. Etc.

Yeah agree with big buddah on that one. If an Eagle pilot ever got into the real world, they'd wonder what hit them. The funny thing is, some of the most arrogant SOBs I have ever met in aviation were Eagle pilots, they seem to be a different breed to the Air Nelson crews for some reason. I guess that may change with recruit-to-group.

[Sqwark2000]

Do they still have a four day interview process???


Integrated in the Recruit to Group process.... 2 days.

I have heard that they're moving to a 2 step process. Get invited to SIM first, if you're ok after that, then you'll get invited back for interview. Could be a couple of weeks between steps.

That's probably 2 x 2days off, 2 x airfares, 2 x accom for those from further a field...

[Roaring Forties]

What I read here --
"Gotta know your stuff as this is arguebly the most challenging flying you will do in your career....with responsibility....short sectors..lots of wx...no AP.. Uncontrolled airspace.. Etc."

Blah Blah Blah......... Eagle Astronaut. It's a big wide world out there & there's nothing (hard) special about flying a turbo prop around NZ.

-- is precisely why I left 'The BIG island' and its little eastern brother 'Godzone' and ventured out into the real world. Surprise surprise, in the 'REAL' world the flying is a little more challenging. - read my other posts.

The problem with pilots who spend all their time in Godzone is they develop 'fishbowl syndrome' ie. This is THE WORLD - and WOW its a big place - all 20 odd airports. When somebody comes back into 'their' world, they cannot accept that there is 'another world' outside their 'world'. Oh - occasionally one is allowed to jump out of the fish bowl and head west for 3hrs and bump into the big island where a similar attitude exists. I understand that syndrome is called 'shark patrol' syndrome. :E

Last week in Sao Paulo, today in Cape Town, next week in Seattle - must visit Boeing Museum!:ok:

[big buddah]

Roaring forties, agree with you 100%.

[framer]

Who cares, I´ve done both and there are crap pilots venturing around the world and there are crap pilots staying in NZ/ Ausi, there are great pilots in both environments to. If you are trying to connect your location and flying environment to your skills ....... what is your motivation for doing that? WHo are you trying to impress?

[haughtney1]

Blimin heck Roaring Forties, with a roster like that I'd be seriously checking your bidding strategy, perhaps a visit to the CRS team would be in order?
All that ULR flying is bad for you, take your ID to the Boeing Muesum though, you should get a couple of free goodies.

Framer, I'm not sure if you have had any exposure over the years to some of the cretins that used to inhabit the hallowed seats on the bandit and now the 1900, but I can assure you that the description of Eagle Astronauts was at the time very very well deserved.

[icanclearly]

interesting thread. Yes it is true Eagle may ruin your career they have appalling pass rates even for the experienced pilots working for them. Nelson and Mt Cook have far better pass rates. Their excuse is "We dont have a SIM". Really its because we are old school control freaks and love inflicting stress and misery.
Eagle would be a good place to stay for a while if it wasn't for the control freaks.

[always inverted]

Those that fail or dont do well at eagle are those that dont put in any work into their checks, or think that the world/ company owes them a favour. Yes they fail people, I failed my first command check, so what... The checki was a dick, the industry knows that but at the end of the day you keep your head down, do the job and get a command and get out.
If you bitch about it on here then you probably failed to get in or missed multiple command upgrades. May want to have a look at your own ability before blaming it on the company, gen-y maybe...

As for a couple of thousand hrs on the 1900 before a command, rubbish, unless you were holding out for a certain base. The wider aviation community know of the checking system there and laugh about it, so that will not ruin your carreer... its the bad attitude that you may possess that will do it.

[framer]

The wider aviation community know of the checking system there and laugh about it, so that will not ruin your carreer... its the bad attitude that you may possess that will do it.
.......maybe, maybe not.
A failed check or two, or even a reduced check cycle will be discussed at length when assessing candidates, it definitely won´t be laughed about. The candidate would have to shine during the interview process just to counter the fact that they have that history.
If the interview panel is sitting on the fence then that will tip them in a certain direction even though they know Eagle fails more pilots.
If the pilot failed the check ride because Eagle has a checking and checking culture then that is unfortunate, but it is what it is. The company interviewing will normally err on the side of caution because once a troublesome pilot is in their system it becomes their problem......a very expensive problem.
Thats my opinion anyway.

[hownowbrowncow]

Those that fail or dont do well at eagle are those that dont put in any work into their checks

Seriously? As said before, many good pilots who have put in loads of work have not passed their commands at the first couple of attempts. I can tell you now they are some of the most professional pilots I have flown with.

As for a couple of thousand hrs on the 1900 before a command, rubbish, unless you were holding out for a certain base.

I wasn't asking for your opinion, I was telling you a fact. While things have returned to normal with times to command (12-18 months), there was a recession and things stopped moving for a couple of years.

The wider aviation community know of the checking system there and laugh about it, so that will not ruin your carreer

I suggest you have a look at AirNZ's new recruitment website. It specifically asks if you have failed any flight tests during your career, even if you have failed any theory tests. While the pilots interviewing you may know that Eagle have an appalling pass rate and it doesn't mean much, the HR guys probably won't. And these are the guys who for some reason think that your high school results are important, so they won't like that you missed your ATPL first time round, even if your check captain was a dick...

[mattyj]

I know one eagle cappie who was unsuccessful at jetconnect and was told specifically that it was because he failed his first command upgrade ..

[DeltaT]

While the pilots interviewing you may know that Eagle have an appalling pass rate and it doesn't mean much, the HR guys probably won't. And these are the guys who for some reason think that your high school results are important

:ok::ok::ok:

HR f**** up aviation again.

[icanclearly]

Always inverted.... I'm confused, so did you fail because the Checkie was a Dick or because you didn't put the work in?

you said, "Those that fail or dont do well at eagle are those that dont put in any work into their checks" and then gave your example "Yes they fail people, I failed my first command check, so what... The checki was a dick."

If it was because the Checkie was a Dick then that has damaged your career unfairly. Imagine if the Checkie was a Dick on your second attempt...

[splat72]

sounds simple to me ' LEAVE " find another job, however if you can't find another job in the current enviroment with so much going on in airlines around the world then the checkie was proberly right.
:ok:

[icanclearly]

Yep left. Like many others... Wasn't gona hang around and play Russian roulette with me career. Hopefully others will see this and take your advice.

[remoak]

however if you can't find another job in the current enviroment with so much going on in airlines around the world then the checkie was proberly right.

Don't know what planet you are living on, but there isn't that much going on in airlines "around the world", certainly hardly anything in the First World (assuming you could even get a work permit), and what work there is requires a type rating and experience, plus the licence of the country in question. There is plenty in China/Asia, but almost all contract and once again, requires a type rating and experience. China in particular can be a very hard row to hoe, as many contract pilots have found out to their cost.

So where does that leave a young Kiwi pilot with no other passports and a B1900 type rating?

Pretty much scr#wed, I'd say...

[JohnnyK]

There's always that great brown land to the West. They love Kiwi's over there. Not as good as before because you cant hop on the dole immediately but you can still hear a lot of awesome jokes about sheep and fish and chips.

[j3pipercub]

You can keep your Eagle Astronauts in your long white cloudy land. In fact take everyone back, especially those lower lifeforms that star in that pathetic 'GC' you lot call television.

[mattyj]

They wouldn't come if you lazy convicts would put up your own scaffolding :-)