300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
Nunc est bibendum
Many sons of senior pilots were not accepted and are now flying elsewhere. Children of other staff were, people unconnected with Qantas were accepted.
Ignore fly boat north. He's a troll. I'm going to treat him like voldemort and won't speak his name ever again. Not out of fear but because he's a clown.
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Whilst I was on parole I learn't how to 'ignore list' tossers, it works really well, even when he's posted a reply directed to me, I can't see it and couldn't give a f@rk what he's written
Flyboatnorth - What is likely over is the following, QF long haul pilots
Taking a Second Officer on at least ten or so routes to Asia when everyone else just has two pilots
Being paid 50 % more than your counterparts at BA, and the large US passenger carriers United , Delta , American & Air Canada
Taking a Second Officer on at least ten or so routes to Asia when everyone else just has two pilots
Being paid 50 % more than your counterparts at BA, and the large US passenger carriers United , Delta , American & Air Canada
Some facts in the face of this twits propaganda - Delta 747 and 777 Captain pay:
- $270.00 per credit hour including international override.
- average credit per month 80 hours. (+/- 5% depending on seniority)
- retirement contribution paid by company 17% (401K and B Fund)
- Per Diem ~ $ 650 per month (tax free based on 10 days of work)
- profit sharing ~ 8% (2013)
Total compensation: $ 332,000.00 U.S. or $ 353,317.00 Aust dollars.
* $279,000.00 is taxable income. Tax rates are far lower in the U.S.
* working 12 - 13 days a month.
* American Airlines (AA) and United have similar pay. AA pay is the slightly lower of the three. In 2016 they will be very close. United lags Delta slightly.
* Air Canada has similar rates for the 777 ($275 per hour)
Deta requires 3 pilots on any ocean crossing, and any flight over 8 hours. 4 pilots on any flight over 12 hours.
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Not how I would do the data analysis
I would say Delta @ $263 per hour, including retirement and profit share in the salary , are you for real ? Not how you do it.
80 hours a month at 263 gives you just over $250K (USD) or $274K (AUD)
So we have the highest paying US pax airline well under the base rates on Qantas 747/330/380 @ around $290K base salary, and as we know the 380 chappies average $415K.
Note that American and United don't earn as much as Delta
We all know that the QF pilots were crowing about how wonderful the US "big three" airlines had it in the late 1990s when they were likely ahead in $$. It was all quiet on the Western front from 2001 onwards when the US majors had their salaries slashed, massive furloughs , retirement funds all lost.
Yes the Americans have it so good and we all want some of that. Likely since 2001 through 2011 the QF guys were easily earning double what the US majors were. Wages for US only sprang back over last few years.
But the Americans were not iconic pilots , whereas their Qantas cousins are the truly iconic pilots.
Interesting data from Mr "Jetstar pilots get sh#t money" , just giving himself a little bit of pump up perhaps.
Really six thousand apps for cadets, don't you aqctually know the real story ? They put the piles into two mounds tossed a coin & half got binned then & there. I thought 90 or so went through Adelaide early nineties.
What would we say for 95 thru 99 when the program was only for relatives of company employees ?? Perhaps 300 to 400 applications , 50 cadets , and yes all 50 cadets have a direct connection with the company.
Qantas pilots: the best of the best
I would say Delta @ $263 per hour, including retirement and profit share in the salary , are you for real ? Not how you do it.
80 hours a month at 263 gives you just over $250K (USD) or $274K (AUD)
So we have the highest paying US pax airline well under the base rates on Qantas 747/330/380 @ around $290K base salary, and as we know the 380 chappies average $415K.
Note that American and United don't earn as much as Delta
We all know that the QF pilots were crowing about how wonderful the US "big three" airlines had it in the late 1990s when they were likely ahead in $$. It was all quiet on the Western front from 2001 onwards when the US majors had their salaries slashed, massive furloughs , retirement funds all lost.
Yes the Americans have it so good and we all want some of that. Likely since 2001 through 2011 the QF guys were easily earning double what the US majors were. Wages for US only sprang back over last few years.
But the Americans were not iconic pilots , whereas their Qantas cousins are the truly iconic pilots.
Interesting data from Mr "Jetstar pilots get sh#t money" , just giving himself a little bit of pump up perhaps.
Really six thousand apps for cadets, don't you aqctually know the real story ? They put the piles into two mounds tossed a coin & half got binned then & there. I thought 90 or so went through Adelaide early nineties.
What would we say for 95 thru 99 when the program was only for relatives of company employees ?? Perhaps 300 to 400 applications , 50 cadets , and yes all 50 cadets have a direct connection with the company.
Qantas pilots: the best of the best
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Fly North or whatever,
Why such a pathological hatred for Qantas pilots?
Yes some were cadets others were not. Some have family in the airline some dont.
So what?
As far as pay is concerned, i doubt very much that the current QF business model is totally driven by such.
I am always amused at guys like you who seem to think otherwise.
A pilot centric world view. Its a flawed argument at best.
Cheer up old son its not as bad as your hatred would suggest.
Why such a pathological hatred for Qantas pilots?
Yes some were cadets others were not. Some have family in the airline some dont.
So what?
As far as pay is concerned, i doubt very much that the current QF business model is totally driven by such.
I am always amused at guys like you who seem to think otherwise.
A pilot centric world view. Its a flawed argument at best.
Cheer up old son its not as bad as your hatred would suggest.
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Because somebody has a different opinion than you might have, it doesn't mean that they have any personal feelings towards you or your particular occupation, it simply just means that they have a different opinion than the viewpoint that you might hold.
Nor does it mean that they have a desire to work in the particular job area or vocational field that you might work in.
Nor does it mean that they have a desire to work in the particular job area or vocational field that you might work in.
Nunc est bibendum
People are entitled to their opinions. They're not entitled to make up crap that they then proclaim as 'fact' upon which they then base their 'opinion'. These actions are known as a straw man. It's normally the chosen tool of those whom have NFI, or have such a weak position that it's the only way they can distract from said weak position.
You can normally pick the quality of people as to how they utilise this tool. In fact, it's quite a handy example of intellectual and emotional maturity.
You can normally pick the quality of people as to how they utilise this tool. In fact, it's quite a handy example of intellectual and emotional maturity.
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This is not the work of a pathological hater, it would appear to be the work of an agent provocateur. Quite simply to attempt to engage at others on an emotional level. This has all the hallmarks of communications disinformation type strategy by someone employed to do a job. The job is to antagonist, disrupt, discredit, spoil, and above all provoke emotional outbursts from others. In short, to deliberately "get your goat". Further, these emotional responses appear to be to be elicited for the benefit of non-pilots & press (and they do) who may be watching this thread.
Notice the complete lack of emotional commitment to any cause in their posts. This appears to someone employed to do a job, and they are just doing their job. Why would someone go to such a length to investigate the minutiae of contracts for hate on an anonymous BB? Way too much research has been done by the individual who just hates. More likely, the research has been handed to them by their superior.
Any fact or argument will be taken, altered & used against you. There is no attempt at rational or logical debate. Any argument or fact will be twisted to attempt to provoke an emotional response.
I visit a lot of other forums with much more highly skilled professional disinfo operatives. There is nothing subtle, nuanced or clever about your work, you lack any degree of subtly, plausibility, credibility, knowledge or authority. They are the tools of professionals, you are straight out of amateur hour.
Notice the complete lack of emotional commitment to any cause in their posts. This appears to someone employed to do a job, and they are just doing their job. Why would someone go to such a length to investigate the minutiae of contracts for hate on an anonymous BB? Way too much research has been done by the individual who just hates. More likely, the research has been handed to them by their superior.
Any fact or argument will be taken, altered & used against you. There is no attempt at rational or logical debate. Any argument or fact will be twisted to attempt to provoke an emotional response.
I visit a lot of other forums with much more highly skilled professional disinfo operatives. There is nothing subtle, nuanced or clever about your work, you lack any degree of subtly, plausibility, credibility, knowledge or authority. They are the tools of professionals, you are straight out of amateur hour.
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
As a third party observer in this thread, (while I may not agree with what FBN has to say) - I believe he has the right to say it. He never personally attacks his debaters unlike his detractors on here. Fight the man with facts not emotion, other wise you come off no better than irrational fundamentalists.
As a third party observer in this thread, (while I may not agree with what FBN has to say) - I believe he has the right to say it. He never personally attacks his debaters unlike his detractors on here. Fight the man with facts not emotion, other wise you come off no better than irrational fundamentalists.
Why the question - you didn't make it as an airline pilot ??
Very puzzled as to why it seems so many on this forum seem to regard that as some kind Mt Everest of achievement
Very puzzled as to why it seems so many on this forum seem to regard that as some kind Mt Everest of achievement
You're obviously just some uni grad muppet who thinks that flying is like everything else you just go to uni pass a few exams then someone gifts you a job and you cruise around.
Or alternatively someone who could pass the exams but can't fly, and washed out.
Why don't you go talk about something more suited to your interests like HTML coding or email design somewhere else.
You're only embarrassing yourself here through an obvious lack of knowledge.
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Now, at last we're getting somewhere thanks to Keg, but, oh boy, it's taken awhile hasn't it!?
As the proponents to the variations mooted to 18C keep pointing out...let the bigots have their say, it's their right.
It's also the right of others to laugh at the buffoons and bigots in our society today and to scoff at their views!
As the proponents to the variations mooted to 18C keep pointing out...let the bigots have their say, it's their right.
It's also the right of others to laugh at the buffoons and bigots in our society today and to scoff at their views!
FBN,
The cadet scheme in 2000 was not exclusive to QF relatives, nor was 99 and neither was 98, not sure about before. Perhaps you should check your facts.
You are entitled to you opinion.
I am trying to work out your agenda however. What do you hope to gain? Why come onto a pilots forum and bad mouth pilots. You expect to get them to agree to your assertions? That our qualifications are easy to attain and we are all prima donas who live in a land of fairies and leprechauns?
I think most QF pilots would agree that we are well paid and that we must change along with the times. These changes should be negotiated however.
The problem that management face is that as a group no one believes anything thing that they say. All or none of the current performance of QF mainline's performance and financial bleeding could be true. The issue is that after countless years of bald face lying to the pilot group, they have lost our trust.
Management must own their mismanagement. We must move forward but their past lies stand in the way of it. Pilots should be part of the solution not part of the problem.
How many staff does QF group have per airframe? That is were the problem lies. Too many blunts.
The cadet scheme in 2000 was not exclusive to QF relatives, nor was 99 and neither was 98, not sure about before. Perhaps you should check your facts.
You are entitled to you opinion.
I am trying to work out your agenda however. What do you hope to gain? Why come onto a pilots forum and bad mouth pilots. You expect to get them to agree to your assertions? That our qualifications are easy to attain and we are all prima donas who live in a land of fairies and leprechauns?
I think most QF pilots would agree that we are well paid and that we must change along with the times. These changes should be negotiated however.
The problem that management face is that as a group no one believes anything thing that they say. All or none of the current performance of QF mainline's performance and financial bleeding could be true. The issue is that after countless years of bald face lying to the pilot group, they have lost our trust.
Management must own their mismanagement. We must move forward but their past lies stand in the way of it. Pilots should be part of the solution not part of the problem.
How many staff does QF group have per airframe? That is were the problem lies. Too many blunts.
gotcha Fly Boat North
I taught every Qantas cadet at the AAC (9courses) in the early 90s. Apart from the flight engineers we retrained, there were no caltains sons, relatives or the like.
I have read the lop sided rubbish you write on other threads. You are, once again, misleading this forum. Do you kick your dog when you get home, just to feel superior?
I have read the lop sided rubbish you write on other threads. You are, once again, misleading this forum. Do you kick your dog when you get home, just to feel superior?
Flyboatnorth -base rates on Qantas 747/330/380 @ around $290K base salary, and as we know the 380 chappies average $415K.
Prove it.
I've shown you the math. Taken from the DAL CBA. Show me your work, backed up by proof. Show me that the average Qantas A330 Captain makes $290K per annum excluding all allowances, profit sharing, retirement benefits etc. Whilst your at it, show the work for an average A380 captain making $415K in straight pay. (repeating a number that you read on the internet will not cut it)
Until you can do that, your argument remains fallacious.
Ignore the prick, he's been shown to be a wanna bee with barely a CPL?
He's probably hoping you guys all leave so he can rush in and scab, we've seen it before.
It's the only way he can make it. He tries to drag others down to him instead of rising up to their level, unfortunately he's not the only one in Aviation "racing to the bottom"
He's probably hoping you guys all leave so he can rush in and scab, we've seen it before.
It's the only way he can make it. He tries to drag others down to him instead of rising up to their level, unfortunately he's not the only one in Aviation "racing to the bottom"
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QF A330 pay
Are you guys denying the following?
A330 rate is around $271/hour.
Divisor is 160 hours per bid period
6.5 bid periods per year.
Do the math, not incl allowances and super.
290k is about right isn't it?
A330 rate is around $271/hour.
Divisor is 160 hours per bid period
6.5 bid periods per year.
Do the math, not incl allowances and super.
290k is about right isn't it?