The way we were - Ansett, TAA, Qantas
Inter-airline co-operation
Air Support mentioned the co-operation between airlines (in his case Ansett & TAA) from the engineering point of view. I'm happy to say it was the same on the passenger handling side as well. I can remember starting an early shift for QF at Melbourne, just two of us getting things ready for the days work. We recieved a call from Customs to say a Yugoslav 707 had just landed and there weren't any Pan-Am staff (who were the handling cxompany for JAT) to meet the flight. The two of us met the aircraft and saw passengers through Immigration and Customs. By the time the Pan-Am staff arrived, everything had been done. Their Station Manager personally found us both to offer his thanks and we all got on with our own jobs then. Other airlines (including Pan-Am) would, if asked by us, carry staff discount or free passengers if we didn't have availability on our QF flights. It was definitely a 'help each other' atmosphere in those days. Sadly, within my working life, this co-operation gradually became less and less.
Why we all cooperated
It sure was good clean fun in those days. We even got to mix with the " Hosties " as well as other staff.
I reckon the big reason for all of the cooperation is that there was virtually NO competition. Sure we tried to outdo each other but the Industry was so heavily regulated that we could not lose much at all by helping out. These days with so much competition the thought of losing very much market share is followed by staff reductions and wage cuts thus making it a totally cut throat game and the thought of helping the " opposition " has gone.
That did not happen in those days and on the Industrial side of things because there were only two Major Domestic Airlines all we had to do was to get one Airlines staff to threaten a strike / stop work then the management would panic and capitulate and as we almost certainly had a job for life in those days there was no real worry about being dismissed.
That virtually ensured the same wages and conditions were enjoyed by all.
That all changed with de-regulation and those two " Bosses " of AN. who well and truly ruined our " good life " , it was too good to last and it simply did not
Staff today would not be game to try out a strike/ stop work given the knowledge that the Carrier you are with would do anything and everything to eliminate such an activity because they would fold if it kept on for any length of time.
I am so happy that I was there in the Halcyon days and not there now.
The only winners out of all this are the fare paying passengers but then I guess that's what it is really all about, without them there are no jobs at all.
Ah!!! Those were happy days then.
I reckon the big reason for all of the cooperation is that there was virtually NO competition. Sure we tried to outdo each other but the Industry was so heavily regulated that we could not lose much at all by helping out. These days with so much competition the thought of losing very much market share is followed by staff reductions and wage cuts thus making it a totally cut throat game and the thought of helping the " opposition " has gone.
That did not happen in those days and on the Industrial side of things because there were only two Major Domestic Airlines all we had to do was to get one Airlines staff to threaten a strike / stop work then the management would panic and capitulate and as we almost certainly had a job for life in those days there was no real worry about being dismissed.
That virtually ensured the same wages and conditions were enjoyed by all.
That all changed with de-regulation and those two " Bosses " of AN. who well and truly ruined our " good life " , it was too good to last and it simply did not
Staff today would not be game to try out a strike/ stop work given the knowledge that the Carrier you are with would do anything and everything to eliminate such an activity because they would fold if it kept on for any length of time.
I am so happy that I was there in the Halcyon days and not there now.
The only winners out of all this are the fare paying passengers but then I guess that's what it is really all about, without them there are no jobs at all.
Ah!!! Those were happy days then.
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I reckon the big reason for all of the cooperation is that there was virtually NO competition. Sure we tried to outdo each other but the Industry was so heavily regulated that we could not lose much at all by helping out.
Nor was it anything to do with Industrial matters, Unions or Associations, it was just what we did.
The only winners out of all this are the fare paying passengers but then I guess that's what it is really all about, without them there are no jobs at all.
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not as friendly today as it was back in the 70s and 80s.
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Not as it once was.
Most of we older generation of the aviation fraternity were employed when the world as a whole was different and most of us could honestly say we looked forward to going to work. Whether it be the military or civil aviation things are different now. As someone recently said it was back then when "a pilot could get a cabin attendant pregnant but a cabin attendant could not get a pilot pregnant". Simplistic I suppose, but just one facet which has changed.
In the main we were all proud to profess our loyalty to our particular brand and often went that "extra mile" without complaint to get the job done. I know I can in no way relate to my old airline in its present form if the comments by many, which I hope are not really representative of how the majority of present day employees feel about their employer, are true. Times have changed and so, sadly it seems, has the culture within the industry.
Maybe I see things through rose coloured glasses but to me the old days were truly the best days to have been involved in the aviation game.
In the main we were all proud to profess our loyalty to our particular brand and often went that "extra mile" without complaint to get the job done. I know I can in no way relate to my old airline in its present form if the comments by many, which I hope are not really representative of how the majority of present day employees feel about their employer, are true. Times have changed and so, sadly it seems, has the culture within the industry.
Maybe I see things through rose coloured glasses but to me the old days were truly the best days to have been involved in the aviation game.
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a pilot could get a cabin attendant pregnant but a cabin attendant could not get a pilot pregnant
There was quite a big deal when the first female Pilot began flying with us, the first time she was transitting BNE I was looking after the B727, I was well used to shall we say colourful language with male Pilots but was determined to make sure I was careful, when I opened the cockpit door (you could in those days) what was the first thing I heard, the female Pilot using language that would make most men blush.
On another recent thread, story of the MD80 captain trying to get Dubia Tower to respond to her calls (during the first Gulf War)
Another aircraft interecedes on her behalf, so the tower says in condescending tone 'Nightingale Nine . . . is your captain there?'
And she says " I AM THE CAPTAIN. NOW SPEAK TO ME, ASSHOLE."
Another aircraft interecedes on her behalf, so the tower says in condescending tone 'Nightingale Nine . . . is your captain there?'
And she says " I AM THE CAPTAIN. NOW SPEAK TO ME, ASSHOLE."
It's not cynical
airsupport.
I still believe that a lot of the reason we all helped each other was that we had very little to lose by doing so and we did enjoy helping out.
However , most would not be very willing to help out too much these days as it is so competitive that we have to look after our Airline first and foremost and helping a direct competitor could be seen as siding with the " enemy " by the Management and in the long term might even put our jobs at risk.
Also if you read my Post I did not link " cooperating " with Industrial Matters , I specifically stated : " and on the Industrial side of things ". That is a separate issue and has nothing to do with helping out .It was simply stating my belief that because of the 2 Airline policy we did have quite secure jobs due in part to the Industrial advantage of playing one side against the other.
We saw all of this " helping each other " start to disappear when the 3rd Airline , Compass started up as they posed a direct threat to the other Airlines continuance and thus the future of many of us.
Never the less it was the most wonderful days in Aviation the likes of which we will never see again.
Those really were the Halcyon days.
I still believe that a lot of the reason we all helped each other was that we had very little to lose by doing so and we did enjoy helping out.
However , most would not be very willing to help out too much these days as it is so competitive that we have to look after our Airline first and foremost and helping a direct competitor could be seen as siding with the " enemy " by the Management and in the long term might even put our jobs at risk.
Also if you read my Post I did not link " cooperating " with Industrial Matters , I specifically stated : " and on the Industrial side of things ". That is a separate issue and has nothing to do with helping out .It was simply stating my belief that because of the 2 Airline policy we did have quite secure jobs due in part to the Industrial advantage of playing one side against the other.
We saw all of this " helping each other " start to disappear when the 3rd Airline , Compass started up as they posed a direct threat to the other Airlines continuance and thus the future of many of us.
Never the less it was the most wonderful days in Aviation the likes of which we will never see again.
Those really were the Halcyon days.
Last edited by RodH; 26th Jan 2014 at 23:12.
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I still believe that a lot of the reason we all helped each other was that we had very little to lose
PLEASE do NOT start about Compass being a threat, I was with Compass and the absolutely disgusting, unethical and even illegal things that were done to Compass 1 and 2, well
I was also with Compass and the remark I made was meant to reflect that the other 2 Airlines saw them as a threat and as you said some totally rotten things were done to it..
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I was also with Compass and the remark I made was meant to reflect that the other 2 Airlines saw them as a threat and as you said some totally rotten things were done to it..
I thought you were having a go at Compass.
Were you a Captain there, and are they your real initials (Rod H), just I wondered before if you were who I thought you may be?
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Okay, guess you are not going to answer, NO sinister reason, I just thought with those initials you may be a Captain I spent a lot of time with in the Cockpit at Compass, especially when we first got the Airbus A310. 
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airsupport
Sorry for the late reply .
I was outside trying to clean my place up after a 5 week absence.
Yes , they are my real initials and I was a Captain with them and it probably was me that you are referring to.
They were good times in Compass Mk1 and it might have succeeded were it not for sabotage by others.
They were wonderful days back then and it is something that we can be proud of .
It is sad that others will never see such a great workplace as we had , it really was a pleasure to go to work.
That's not what I'm hearing now although I think VA people are fairly happy but alas , the Rat is being ruined by an Irish Gnome.
I am so glad I was a part of the "good times " !!!!!!!!
Sorry for the late reply .
I was outside trying to clean my place up after a 5 week absence.
Yes , they are my real initials and I was a Captain with them and it probably was me that you are referring to.
They were good times in Compass Mk1 and it might have succeeded were it not for sabotage by others.
They were wonderful days back then and it is something that we can be proud of .
It is sad that others will never see such a great workplace as we had , it really was a pleasure to go to work.
That's not what I'm hearing now although I think VA people are fairly happy but alas , the Rat is being ruined by an Irish Gnome.
I am so glad I was a part of the "good times " !!!!!!!!
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No worries.......... 
Yes I thought it was you, had some really great times at Compass1, it was a pleasure going to work.
When we first got the A310 I was the only Engineer licenced on it for some 10 days and literally lived with the aircraft where ever it went, had some great times flying with you guys then, I remember you particularly, for good reasons, including some things that were said in the cockpit, re SYD ATC and some of the other Airlines.
You can see from what is posted here I have had some very good times, all over the World, but I still miss Compass the most.
Yes I thought it was you, had some really great times at Compass1, it was a pleasure going to work.
When we first got the A310 I was the only Engineer licenced on it for some 10 days and literally lived with the aircraft where ever it went, had some great times flying with you guys then, I remember you particularly, for good reasons, including some things that were said in the cockpit, re SYD ATC and some of the other Airlines.
You can see from what is posted here I have had some very good times, all over the World, but I still miss Compass the most.
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From my memoirs:
A few days before Christmas in 1965, a colleague and I were booked TAA Sydney Melbourne as the final leg of our journey back from Vietnam. For reasons possibly not unconnected to the discovery of a broken down M1 Carbine in a veteran's luggage (not mine), Customs decided to do us all properly. The result was that we were in danger of missing our flight. However, after a bit of pushing by our air-movements man, we were cleared, and whilst our luggage had an easy run on the back of a towmotor, we had a lengthy sprint through the ancient Mascot terminals from the arrivals hall to the TAA departure gate.
We were escorted across the tarmac to an Electra sitting there with the front all buttoned up, numbers 3 and 4 running at idle, and the extremely senior Air Hostess awaiting us at the foot of the rear stairs. She was, indeed, the only four-bar hosty I had ever met, and I guess she was the senior check and trainer or somesuch. She escorted us to the semi-circular lounge at the rear of the Electra, and plied us with champers and goodies for the trip south. This was probably not such a great idea at 10 in the morning, we having come off PanAm Saigon to Singapore, then QF to Sydney, all first class, but we weren't about to refuse. Indeed, apart from the odd hasty hand-shake, it constituted the only real welcome home (apart from our families) that we had until 23 years later. It might have also contributed to me falling asleep during the family welcome home, who knows?
I was later told that she had refused to allow the rear stairs to be cleared by the expedient of standing on the bottom step until we turned up. At this distance, I salute her - but can anybody tell me her name and official rank? PM if necessary.
A few days before Christmas in 1965, a colleague and I were booked TAA Sydney Melbourne as the final leg of our journey back from Vietnam. For reasons possibly not unconnected to the discovery of a broken down M1 Carbine in a veteran's luggage (not mine), Customs decided to do us all properly. The result was that we were in danger of missing our flight. However, after a bit of pushing by our air-movements man, we were cleared, and whilst our luggage had an easy run on the back of a towmotor, we had a lengthy sprint through the ancient Mascot terminals from the arrivals hall to the TAA departure gate.
We were escorted across the tarmac to an Electra sitting there with the front all buttoned up, numbers 3 and 4 running at idle, and the extremely senior Air Hostess awaiting us at the foot of the rear stairs. She was, indeed, the only four-bar hosty I had ever met, and I guess she was the senior check and trainer or somesuch. She escorted us to the semi-circular lounge at the rear of the Electra, and plied us with champers and goodies for the trip south. This was probably not such a great idea at 10 in the morning, we having come off PanAm Saigon to Singapore, then QF to Sydney, all first class, but we weren't about to refuse. Indeed, apart from the odd hasty hand-shake, it constituted the only real welcome home (apart from our families) that we had until 23 years later. It might have also contributed to me falling asleep during the family welcome home, who knows?
I was later told that she had refused to allow the rear stairs to be cleared by the expedient of standing on the bottom step until we turned up. At this distance, I salute her - but can anybody tell me her name and official rank? PM if necessary.
and Ansetts in flight service was outstanding
Somebody asked me the other day what was the best in-flight meal I ever had. The absolute best, by a country mile, was a cauliflower cheese soup (cost probably $2) served on a crowded, late Pan Am B727 from Houston to a frozen New York … but we won’t go there.
But up there with the absolute best was the First Class meal served on Ansett B747-300 VH-INH flying SYD-HKG on 3rd Jan 1995. The choices were:
Appetizers:
Beluga caviar, Pacific seafood parade, Beef tataki, York peninsula baby lobster
Soup:
Double consommé of black hen or Cream of green pea
Main:
Cantonese beef tenderloin,Hot salmon gravlax, Chicken mirin en papillotte, Stir fried scallops and prawns, Teriyaki tofu
Cheese :
range of Australian and French cheese
Dessert :
The magnificent Mckenzie Chardonnay and Macademia Pudding, Chestnut gateau, Sacher torte, Apple and poppy seed crepe
The champagne was Dom Perignon, and the wines were fabulous (but mostly French) .
The menu (and I have it here with me) was hard card bound with solid brass fasteners and the Ansett “star” punched through the card.
I was quite used to premium travel in those days but the Ansett service topped the lot. Super comfortable seats, amazing food, an on-board chef, you name it and Ansett had it. I gather First Class on the B747 only lasted a few months because next time I did the HKG-SYD run it was Business/economy only. But what a First Class!
But up there with the absolute best was the First Class meal served on Ansett B747-300 VH-INH flying SYD-HKG on 3rd Jan 1995. The choices were:
Appetizers:
Beluga caviar, Pacific seafood parade, Beef tataki, York peninsula baby lobster
Soup:
Double consommé of black hen or Cream of green pea
Main:
Cantonese beef tenderloin,Hot salmon gravlax, Chicken mirin en papillotte, Stir fried scallops and prawns, Teriyaki tofu
Cheese :
range of Australian and French cheese
Dessert :
The magnificent Mckenzie Chardonnay and Macademia Pudding, Chestnut gateau, Sacher torte, Apple and poppy seed crepe
The champagne was Dom Perignon, and the wines were fabulous (but mostly French) .
The menu (and I have it here with me) was hard card bound with solid brass fasteners and the Ansett “star” punched through the card.
I was quite used to premium travel in those days but the Ansett service topped the lot. Super comfortable seats, amazing food, an on-board chef, you name it and Ansett had it. I gather First Class on the B747 only lasted a few months because next time I did the HKG-SYD run it was Business/economy only. But what a First Class!
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Of course that is another thing that was way better back ''the way we were'', the catering, but I guess you get what you pay for, catering is almost non existant now domestically but the fares are way cheaper.
Back in the day with Ansett when we used to fly everywhere on staff discount, not always but usually upgraded to first class, and some great catering.
We Engineers too when we met the overnight aircraft used to share the leftovers with the other Staff.
Reminded me too on that Ansett contract with RMA in Vietnam, we used to fly Hanoi-Moscow-Hanoi (only aircraft they had that could do it non stop), had both the worst catering I have EVER seen, out of Hanoi, and the best I have ever seen out of Moscow catered by Aeroflot. When we got back to Hanoi we used to save any leftovers to use back in Saigon.
Back in the day with Ansett when we used to fly everywhere on staff discount, not always but usually upgraded to first class, and some great catering.
We Engineers too when we met the overnight aircraft used to share the leftovers with the other Staff.
Reminded me too on that Ansett contract with RMA in Vietnam, we used to fly Hanoi-Moscow-Hanoi (only aircraft they had that could do it non stop), had both the worst catering I have EVER seen, out of Hanoi, and the best I have ever seen out of Moscow catered by Aeroflot. When we got back to Hanoi we used to save any leftovers to use back in Saigon.