MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
IT: Qantas was turned into what it is through managerial incompetence of the highest order. It's perception in the public mind is BECAUSE of this. It is not a contributing factor, it IS the factor. Work for the buggers and you will understand how inane they are.
I understand there is still 10% to go in the shareholders stakes before foreign capital limits are hit? I know its not the whole solution but it is a factor.
The last thing I want is for BGA to succeed in holding a gun to the govts head saying (again) 'Ill shut the place down if you don't do what I want', then getting a bailout of any description, thus having the ammunition to say 'Look what a great job Ive done - bonuses all around!'.
And the snotty little worm will probably get that if the Sales Act is amended. It should be, but a condition should be that board and senior management must GO.
I understand there is still 10% to go in the shareholders stakes before foreign capital limits are hit? I know its not the whole solution but it is a factor.
The last thing I want is for BGA to succeed in holding a gun to the govts head saying (again) 'Ill shut the place down if you don't do what I want', then getting a bailout of any description, thus having the ammunition to say 'Look what a great job Ive done - bonuses all around!'.
And the snotty little worm will probably get that if the Sales Act is amended. It should be, but a condition should be that board and senior management must GO.
BNEA320. Not necessarily that Qantas salaries are way to high, but rather that most pilots salaries are far to low. The fact that Australia allows almost open slather access to the Australian aviation market means that we are all potentially subject to the lowest world pay rates. That's the only way to compete with low cost foreign carriers. Australia has a recent history of being the first to surrender local employment to overseas competition. Despite the rhetoric of 'free trade', most countries protect their internal industries. Alan Joyce is engaged in reducing Qantas to the same cost structure as Jetstar and later even lower. He won't rest until that goal is achieved or he is replaced. Qantas will rise again as a brand when it's operating costs are the same as Jet Star. Untill then it is being strangled by culpable neglect.
IT,
One thing AJ did say correctly is that time is now critical. Changing the sale act will take time that Qantas hasn't got.
When the trading halt ceases, the shares are going to crash as funds are forced to sell out. Qantas will be front page news again.
Customers will be very hesitant to forward book.
This could spiral out of control very very quickly - within a matter of weeks.
If the gov't doesn't provide some immediate help, Qantas will be gone within weeks to maybe a few months.
I think the gov't needs to provide some limited assurance to enable Qantas time to restructure. (and get rid of Joyce).
I think the only thing that will save Qantas now is gov't intervention. I don't want to see the gov't on the hook for billions of debt, but wonder whether there could be some time/dollar limited debt guarantee.
The market and customers and employees are spooked and need some sign of stability - immediately!
One thing AJ did say correctly is that time is now critical. Changing the sale act will take time that Qantas hasn't got.
When the trading halt ceases, the shares are going to crash as funds are forced to sell out. Qantas will be front page news again.
Customers will be very hesitant to forward book.
This could spiral out of control very very quickly - within a matter of weeks.
If the gov't doesn't provide some immediate help, Qantas will be gone within weeks to maybe a few months.
I think the gov't needs to provide some limited assurance to enable Qantas time to restructure. (and get rid of Joyce).
I think the only thing that will save Qantas now is gov't intervention. I don't want to see the gov't on the hook for billions of debt, but wonder whether there could be some time/dollar limited debt guarantee.
The market and customers and employees are spooked and need some sign of stability - immediately!
The problem is - who cares? And I say that as an employee.
The government is ideologically opposed to any investment in a public company. International visitor numbers wouldn't materially suffer if QF disappeared tomorrow as they play such a small role these days in the international market. There would be short term damage to the domestic economy but new capacity would move in to the Australian domestic market rapidly if QF disappeared. 30,000 taxpayers on the dole might briefly get the government's attention but apparently it's all part of the necessary pain to globalise the Australian economy ie. head towards Bangladeshi wages and conditions as it's the only way to compete.
I'm appalled with the way this has been handled. The board and executive management should all resign in shame. The fact that management still have the board's support makes me realise how disconnected from reality these idiots actually are.
PS Joyce and Strambi - it might be time to ground the airline again as, if your safety critical employees weren't distracted before, they sure as
are now as they contemplate their family's future.
The government is ideologically opposed to any investment in a public company. International visitor numbers wouldn't materially suffer if QF disappeared tomorrow as they play such a small role these days in the international market. There would be short term damage to the domestic economy but new capacity would move in to the Australian domestic market rapidly if QF disappeared. 30,000 taxpayers on the dole might briefly get the government's attention but apparently it's all part of the necessary pain to globalise the Australian economy ie. head towards Bangladeshi wages and conditions as it's the only way to compete.
I'm appalled with the way this has been handled. The board and executive management should all resign in shame. The fact that management still have the board's support makes me realise how disconnected from reality these idiots actually are.
PS Joyce and Strambi - it might be time to ground the airline again as, if your safety critical employees weren't distracted before, they sure as
are now as they contemplate their family's future.
But on the flipside innovations that the customer has seen including the QBagTag, QCard, ipads on 767/717. But on the whole despite slipups I still think the overall customer experience is better on QF - meals, drinks for all, better food in the lounges, alcohol spirits in the lounges, but undoubtedly Virgin has closed the gap (as it should when converting from an LCC)
QBagTag was accompanied by no more human interaction on check-in and if you don't have a bag tag, good luck with the bloody stickers.
QCard is nothing that VA don't have
iPads are OK on 767s but bettered by VA's BYOD product.
Drinks and food in the lounges are pretty much the same with either airline and the QF Club has become an over-populated zoo.
Drinks for all is great but it added cost and it probably wasn't a must have.
Food for all can be a mixed blessing with either airline's offerings sometimes being underwhelming to say the least
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Dump AJ with his cronies and make Jet Star are totally independent company financially and the QF will recover, whilst Jet Star is funded by QF the situation will never change.
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This could be the catalyst that sees JQ morph into QF. Show the QF employees a JQ contract on one side of the room and a door on the other. Repaint the JQ fleet in QF colors and bingo, cost savings and efficiency gains that will actually mean something.
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So they are now junk. Terrific. If they were that broke,why then would you go to such a expense to change the CC uniforms? What was wrong with the last one? I am with Xenophon, he wants to look at the books, BEFORE any foreign investment is allowed, and now QF is competing with Holden for any sugar from the Govt. it looks like that is the way its going to go. Anyway back to the cricket, at least that is looking hopeful. 7 for 482. Haddin just got his ton. So did Clark. That should stick it up the Poms.
Paxing All Over The World
BBC reports; BBC News - Qantas: S&P cuts airline's credit rating to junk
The downgrade could increase the airline's borrowing costs and sends a warning to investors.
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I have it from an impeccable source that the catalyst for this a couple weeks ago was not QFs financial position but VAs.
VA is/was severely overstretched to the point where the 350 million from Etihad was required to keep it going.
That is the genesis of Joyce's complaint, which considering it appeared out of the blue, seems valid. QF were perhaps weeks from having the market to themselves.
Unfortunately for Joyce, his handling of the situation has backfired on both him and QF. The press have turned on him and the Board. Soon he and his bastard child JQ may no longer be fixtures at QF.
We seem to be entering a period of instability for all the major Australian players.
For the few here slavering over the potential demise of QF, your dream is not yet a fait accompli.
My crystal ball sees JQ Asia sold, Joyce and Clifford gone and QF to restructure and focus, eventually emerging stronger for this.
Don't write off the roo yet.
VA is/was severely overstretched to the point where the 350 million from Etihad was required to keep it going.
That is the genesis of Joyce's complaint, which considering it appeared out of the blue, seems valid. QF were perhaps weeks from having the market to themselves.
Unfortunately for Joyce, his handling of the situation has backfired on both him and QF. The press have turned on him and the Board. Soon he and his bastard child JQ may no longer be fixtures at QF.
We seem to be entering a period of instability for all the major Australian players.
For the few here slavering over the potential demise of QF, your dream is not yet a fait accompli.
My crystal ball sees JQ Asia sold, Joyce and Clifford gone and QF to restructure and focus, eventually emerging stronger for this.
Don't write off the roo yet.
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Professor,
Your suggestion would require a change to the law of the land. In any event, it is not that which is the cause of the pain, despite your and a few other's "alternative reality" viewpoints.
N
Your suggestion would require a change to the law of the land. In any event, it is not that which is the cause of the pain, despite your and a few other's "alternative reality" viewpoints.
N
Really!? Professor. Jetstar the answer/saviour of the Qantas group. You've gotta be f$&@" joking. I'd rather fly Air Nambibia.
That was suggested on here years back as the ultimate goal. Fares would rise depending on the offering, e.g. QANTAS J class and not the joke that JQ calls business class - what you'd have though is yet more 'companies' the new International pilots company formerly JQ pilots, the new cabin crew company, formerly JQ crew etc.
It would be a reverse takeover though much like the Red and Blue tails from 1992, you'd have the Red and Orange tail staff.
However, how does that change the 'foreign investment % ?
The Oz Fed govt MUST repeal the Qantas Sales Act to allow the company to access the availability of foreign capital.
On a side note, so much for free market economy, when the share price starts falling because of bad news, the trading in the shares is stopped. Illogical and irrational at best.
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History repeats itself??
You may well have it on impeccable authority Capt. K. I can assure you that the same scenario presented itself in 2001 when a legacy carrier in severe financial straits, lobbied emotively to deny rescue to its competitor.
Already the subject of a very public attack on its reputation and wounded by a canabalising parent, this competitor pleaded publically for permission to raise the necessary funds through investment by a foriegn airline . As has been repeatedly stated here by others , the legacy carrier ran straight to the Minister concerned , ( who was later rewarded with a gig there) , ensuring that 16000 people lost their jobs.
What may not be so widely known , but is most definitely true, is that one was sacrificed to save the ailing other, 'flag carrier'.
John Howard's 'love child' (T A) does not seem to have any appetite for rescue this time around.
Already the subject of a very public attack on its reputation and wounded by a canabalising parent, this competitor pleaded publically for permission to raise the necessary funds through investment by a foriegn airline . As has been repeatedly stated here by others , the legacy carrier ran straight to the Minister concerned , ( who was later rewarded with a gig there) , ensuring that 16000 people lost their jobs.
What may not be so widely known , but is most definitely true, is that one was sacrificed to save the ailing other, 'flag carrier'.
John Howard's 'love child' (T A) does not seem to have any appetite for rescue this time around.
That would be a Christmas bonus +