MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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Old partners British Airways show how it's meant to be done,by sacking its Chief Executive. With a far longer & worse track record of inconsistent (conflicting) media statements, lies & deception, not to mention the smoke & mirrors accounting, surely this has to be the next inevitable step for the QF (mis)Management?
Last edited by Chocks Away; 5th Dec 2013 at 19:53.
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Twins?
Too many similarities between Joyce and Ayling to mention!
Both had 4 to 5 years as CEO, both think their work ability was strong and were surprised at criticism, both have presided over massive profit losses, both have experimented with legacy parts of their airlines and have failed, both have/had nil trust or confidence from their employees, both have presided over incredibly damaging decisions that have cost their airlines dearly, both have taken reputable legacy airlines and national icons and turned them into cluster f#cks, do I need to continue...........Amaaaazimg stats. Long lost twins?
P.S And hopefully soon, very soon both can say their CEO was pushed!
Both had 4 to 5 years as CEO, both think their work ability was strong and were surprised at criticism, both have presided over massive profit losses, both have experimented with legacy parts of their airlines and have failed, both have/had nil trust or confidence from their employees, both have presided over incredibly damaging decisions that have cost their airlines dearly, both have taken reputable legacy airlines and national icons and turned them into cluster f#cks, do I need to continue...........Amaaaazimg stats. Long lost twins?
P.S And hopefully soon, very soon both can say their CEO was pushed!
Last edited by Paragraph377; 5th Dec 2013 at 13:19.
short flights long nights
Um, small point, don't think Robert Ayling was sacked today.That happened years ago.
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Too many similarities between Joyce and Ayling to mention!
Both had 4 to 5 years as CEO, both think their work ability was strong and were surprised at criticism, both have presided over massive profit losses, both have experimented with legacy parts of their airlines and have failed, both have/had nil trust or confidence from their employees
Both had 4 to 5 years as CEO, both think their work ability was strong and were surprised at criticism, both have presided over massive profit losses, both have experimented with legacy parts of their airlines and have failed, both have/had nil trust or confidence from their employees
now he is doing a fine job under the guidance of LC to do the same to Qantas?I think it is pretty fair to say Joyce's days are numbered and let's hope LC and the board as well, in my view. They are very poor business leaders.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 6th Dec 2013 at 14:00.
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And who is one particular board member that I am appalled with? Cosgrove.
Oh yes, the 'great Australian', head of the armed services, decorated for his love of his country and fellow man! Yeah right. Where did all those morals go, he has backed AJ with grounding the airline, inconveniencing thousands, he has backed decisions to put Australians out of work and on to the street in some cases when mass sackings have occurred, all the while he has sat back, done nothing but wallow in an excessive salary and bonus structure, oh yes what a great Australian....
Oh yes, the 'great Australian', head of the armed services, decorated for his love of his country and fellow man! Yeah right. Where did all those morals go, he has backed AJ with grounding the airline, inconveniencing thousands, he has backed decisions to put Australians out of work and on to the street in some cases when mass sackings have occurred, all the while he has sat back, done nothing but wallow in an excessive salary and bonus structure, oh yes what a great Australian....
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The current situation is a re run of 2011.
I'm guessing the next dribble we will hear from AJ is: "the current uncertainty is causing a loss of confidence amongst our passengers. We are seeing a concerning collapse in forward bookings"
The guy needs to go before passengers loose complete confidence in the management team.
I'm guessing the next dribble we will hear from AJ is: "the current uncertainty is causing a loss of confidence amongst our passengers. We are seeing a concerning collapse in forward bookings"
The guy needs to go before passengers loose complete confidence in the management team.
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The AIPA really needs to support and back up comments by other Unions and the likes of Nick Xenophon that the only way forward is for AJ, Clifford and the board to be removed. They have not accepted ANY responsibility for the demise of qantas under their watch.
There is no way that these clowns can fix what they have all but destroyed because they simply refuse to acknowledge that their strategies are wrong.
The only hope for Qantas is that they go and are replaced by a new management team with the right vision.
A strong united voice from the majority of Qantas employees denouncing this abysmal team and expressing a vote of absolute no confidence would help cut through the BS excuses and blame everyone and everything else game that AJ is indulging in!!
There is no way that these clowns can fix what they have all but destroyed because they simply refuse to acknowledge that their strategies are wrong.
The only hope for Qantas is that they go and are replaced by a new management team with the right vision.
A strong united voice from the majority of Qantas employees denouncing this abysmal team and expressing a vote of absolute no confidence would help cut through the BS excuses and blame everyone and everything else game that AJ is indulging in!!
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The comparison between BA and Qantas is interesting, but not for the reasons given.
There was a time when BA had a competitor called Virgin that was running rings around it, but not anymore. BA went through a fair bit of pain to restructure itself, but is now expanding rather than contracting and made a profit of €477m in the last quarter. Virgin Atlantic is due to report three straight years of heavy financial losses.
The big difference between BA and Qantas is that BA decided to favour the 777 over the 747 in the late 90s. Since the end of the joint-venture between BA and Qantas BA claims that the financial performance of LHR-SYD over Q2 and Q3 of this year improved by £30m compared to the last financial year. A big factor in this is BA's decision to replace the 747 with the 77W.
Almost every new/reinstated long-haul route BA has added over the past few years (Seoul, Chengu, Tokyo Haneda, Buenos Aires direct, San Diego) has been served with the 777.
There was a time when BA had a competitor called Virgin that was running rings around it, but not anymore. BA went through a fair bit of pain to restructure itself, but is now expanding rather than contracting and made a profit of €477m in the last quarter. Virgin Atlantic is due to report three straight years of heavy financial losses.
The big difference between BA and Qantas is that BA decided to favour the 777 over the 747 in the late 90s. Since the end of the joint-venture between BA and Qantas BA claims that the financial performance of LHR-SYD over Q2 and Q3 of this year improved by £30m compared to the last financial year. A big factor in this is BA's decision to replace the 747 with the 77W.
Almost every new/reinstated long-haul route BA has added over the past few years (Seoul, Chengu, Tokyo Haneda, Buenos Aires direct, San Diego) has been served with the 777.
Last edited by Omnipresent; 5th Dec 2013 at 20:30.
I'm not sure if everybody views this a seriously as i do. I believe the window of opportunity for Qantas to survive is getting smaller by the day. Firstly, the board by backing Joyce are saying we will all go down together. Instead of doing the correct thing and getting rid of him they are indicating that they know that if Joyce goes that as they have backed him and his strategies that they also must go. Secondly, by selling either Jetstar or the frequent flyer scheme, the books would be opened up especially if it was via a float a major accounting firm would have to sign off on the prospectus. Problem, in the case of Jetstar the truth would finally be revealed as to how much the parent was subsidising it and with the frequent flyer scheme the truth would be revealed as to what they pay for the seats they redeem on Qantas flights. I believe it is around about 50% of retail. Can i see a train wreck coming? Yes? Joyce and the board are liike a rabbit caught in the headlights. They are stunned. The aaaammmazzing management team dont know what to do.
Funny that the internal simon hickey webinar for the 9th got canned on Wednesday the day before this dropped. Perhaps not wanting to answer too many questions about their amaaazing pillar strategy. Muppets
It could be a strategy as Keg suggest but they would have to be clever to execute a strategy and I don't think they are. As for the general he has lost it. No ash he ain't.
It could be a strategy as Keg suggest but they would have to be clever to execute a strategy and I don't think they are. As for the general he has lost it. No ash he ain't.
In my earlier post I should have said `Australia New Zealand and the Pacific Forum' not this thread, which as someone else quite rightly pointed out has been going for less than a month.
Before diving into any thread about Qantas - you have to steel yourself for the whining.
The market will deal and is dealing with you guys - it's Darwinian.
The problem ain't the management or the Board.
Good on Joyce for grounding you - the little guy's got balls the size of watermelons.
Nope - he's not the problem.
The problem is the significant majority of the Qantas workforce that think they're entitled to a job no matter what, and led by moronic unions that have no grasp of the fundamentals of business or economics.
I suspect you're all going down, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Unless Abbott and co blink at the last minute and pull an Air NZ on you.
Personally, I'd leave you to the wolves.
And now I'll tell you what I really think...
Before diving into any thread about Qantas - you have to steel yourself for the whining.
The market will deal and is dealing with you guys - it's Darwinian.
The problem ain't the management or the Board.
Good on Joyce for grounding you - the little guy's got balls the size of watermelons.
Nope - he's not the problem.
The problem is the significant majority of the Qantas workforce that think they're entitled to a job no matter what, and led by moronic unions that have no grasp of the fundamentals of business or economics.
I suspect you're all going down, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Unless Abbott and co blink at the last minute and pull an Air NZ on you.
Personally, I'd leave you to the wolves.
And now I'll tell you what I really think...
Last edited by tartare; 5th Dec 2013 at 20:49.
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Don't feed the troll... use the ignore button instead.
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Tartare.
Why then was Qantas mainline making billion dollar profits before the little guy appeared on the scene?
The one constant has been the staff. In fact the staff have given pay freezes in difficult times. Whilst management financially rewarded themselves at the same time.
The variables are the Qantas strategy, Australian dollar, foreign and domestic competition, fuel costs etc
Alan Joyce's strategy for the Qantas group maybe the best strategy for the current environment. But he and the Qantas board are not the people to deliver it.
The CEO & board have lost the support of the entire workforce. There needs to be an entire clean out. Delivering new faces with fresh strategies. If the new board and CEO agree that the current strategy is working and the way forward for the Qantas group. Employees would join them for the ride. But I would be surprised if a new board of CEO would continue on the current path of self destruction.
In short. The board and CEO have lost the trust of their employees & nothing will change while they are still running the show.
MC
Why then was Qantas mainline making billion dollar profits before the little guy appeared on the scene?
The one constant has been the staff. In fact the staff have given pay freezes in difficult times. Whilst management financially rewarded themselves at the same time.
The variables are the Qantas strategy, Australian dollar, foreign and domestic competition, fuel costs etc
Alan Joyce's strategy for the Qantas group maybe the best strategy for the current environment. But he and the Qantas board are not the people to deliver it.
The CEO & board have lost the support of the entire workforce. There needs to be an entire clean out. Delivering new faces with fresh strategies. If the new board and CEO agree that the current strategy is working and the way forward for the Qantas group. Employees would join them for the ride. But I would be surprised if a new board of CEO would continue on the current path of self destruction.
In short. The board and CEO have lost the trust of their employees & nothing will change while they are still running the show.
MC
Really?
And not your overheads?
Or workforce productivity?
There are some great people at QF out on the line - but they're in the minority.
Tenretni's comment is indicative of the sort of mentality I'm talking about.
Oh - and Robbie Fyfe is not the answer.
The problems at QF would be far too difficult for him.
Trust me - I worked with him for two and a half years.
And not your overheads?
Or workforce productivity?
There are some great people at QF out on the line - but they're in the minority.
Tenretni's comment is indicative of the sort of mentality I'm talking about.
Oh - and Robbie Fyfe is not the answer.
The problems at QF would be far too difficult for him.
Trust me - I worked with him for two and a half years.
Omni
True but to be honest I think there's a bit more to it than just airframes. Whilst we at BA had the Openskies debacle a while back we've now got a Union and more importantly two CEO's (Walsh and now Keith Williams), who whilst definitely being "hard" are prepared to indulge in meaningful debate with the workforce and have been prepared to give a bit in an attempt to keep the mainline workforce onside and a going concern. It seems to me (from afar) that those at QF have no such luxury, just an asset stripper (do I hear calls of "no **** Sherlock").
All that aside it pains me to see what's going on at QF. I lived in Oz for a while but I can't pretend to understand the deep seated politics of all this. I know you guys ( and girls) deserve better. Good luck.
The big difference between BA and Qantas is that BA decided to favour the 777 over the 747 in the late 90s. Since the end of the joint-venture between BA and Qantas BA claims that the financial performance of LHR-SYD over Q2 and Q3 of this year improved by £30m compared to the last financial year. A big factor in this is BA's decision to replace the 747 with the 77W.
Almost every new/reinstated long-haul route BA has added over the past few years (Seoul, Chengu, Tokyo Haneda, Buenos Aires direct, San Diego) has been served with the 777.
Almost every new/reinstated long-haul route BA has added over the past few years (Seoul, Chengu, Tokyo Haneda, Buenos Aires direct, San Diego) has been served with the 777.
All that aside it pains me to see what's going on at QF. I lived in Oz for a while but I can't pretend to understand the deep seated politics of all this. I know you guys ( and girls) deserve better. Good luck.
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Qantas Airways to slash 1,000 jobs!!
AP. Airline will also freeze pay for all employees and cut the salaries of executives
SYDNEY — Qantas Airways said today (Dec 5) it will slash 1,000 jobs and suffer half-year losses of at least A$250 million (S$284 million), increasing the likelihood that regulators will throw the flag carrier a lifeline by easing restrictions on foreign ownership.
Lower demand, a strong Australian dollar and steep fuel costs have put pressure on the airline, which warned that conditions are expected to remain volatile next year.
“The challenges we now face are immense but we will overcome them,” CEO Alan Joyce said in a statement. “The Australian international market is the toughest anywhere in the world.”
Qantas said it expects to post pre-tax losses of between A$250 million and A$300 million for the six months ending Dec 31.
In a bid to save A$2 billion over three years, the airline plans to ax at least 1,000 jobs within 12 months, freeze pay for all employees and cut the salaries of Mr Joyce and other executives.
The news sent Qantas stock plummeting, with the price dropping as much as 17 per cent.
A range of measures to help the airline have been considered.
Last month, Australia’s Treasurer Joe Hockey suggested the government may need to change rules that currently limit foreign ownership in the airline to 49 per cent.
Earlier this year, Qantas attempted to boost its struggling international division by signing a 10-year partnership with Dubai-based rival Emirates.
SYDNEY — Qantas Airways said today (Dec 5) it will slash 1,000 jobs and suffer half-year losses of at least A$250 million (S$284 million), increasing the likelihood that regulators will throw the flag carrier a lifeline by easing restrictions on foreign ownership.
Lower demand, a strong Australian dollar and steep fuel costs have put pressure on the airline, which warned that conditions are expected to remain volatile next year.
“The challenges we now face are immense but we will overcome them,” CEO Alan Joyce said in a statement. “The Australian international market is the toughest anywhere in the world.”
Qantas said it expects to post pre-tax losses of between A$250 million and A$300 million for the six months ending Dec 31.
In a bid to save A$2 billion over three years, the airline plans to ax at least 1,000 jobs within 12 months, freeze pay for all employees and cut the salaries of Mr Joyce and other executives.
The news sent Qantas stock plummeting, with the price dropping as much as 17 per cent.
A range of measures to help the airline have been considered.
Last month, Australia’s Treasurer Joe Hockey suggested the government may need to change rules that currently limit foreign ownership in the airline to 49 per cent.
Earlier this year, Qantas attempted to boost its struggling international division by signing a 10-year partnership with Dubai-based rival Emirates.