MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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Qantas management rewards
Well, we know good ole General Cosgrove is going to slide through the fallen field to become GG, 
undoubtedly quoting his constant and productive efforts on the QF Board, but how many of you saw the reward you get for creating the happy IR environment that is QF:
MEMBER (AM) IN THE GENERAL DIVISION OF THE ORDER OF AUSTRALIA
Ms Sue-Ellen BUSSELL, Longueville NSW 2066
For significant service to industrial relations, as a supporter of women in business, and to the aviation sector.
Consultant, Metal Trades Industry Association.
Commissioner, Victorian Industrial Relations Commission.
Federal Industrial Officer, Australian Postal and Telecommunications Union.
Federal Vice-President, Flight Attendants Association of Australia International Division, early to mid 1980s; Vice-President, Overseas Branch, early to mid 1980s; Councillor.
Executive Manager, Industrial Relations, Qantas Airways Ltd, since 2002.
Variety of roles including General Manager Operations (Australian Airlines); General Manager, Human Resources Commercial; General Manager, Employee Relations; and General Manager, Retail Sales Australia, since 1994.
Industrial Officer, Ansett Australia.
Kingsley Laffer Memorial Lecturer, University of Sydney, 2010.
Founding Member, Faculty of Business and Economics Industrial Advisory Board, Macquarie University, since 2010.
Current Member, Work and Organisational Studies Department Advisory Board, University of Sydney.
Member, World Congress Organising Committee, International Labour and Employment Relations Association, 2009.
Board Member, Odyssey House, Sydney, 2001-2004.
undoubtedly quoting his constant and productive efforts on the QF Board, but how many of you saw the reward you get for creating the happy IR environment that is QF:MEMBER (AM) IN THE GENERAL DIVISION OF THE ORDER OF AUSTRALIA
Ms Sue-Ellen BUSSELL, Longueville NSW 2066
For significant service to industrial relations, as a supporter of women in business, and to the aviation sector.
Consultant, Metal Trades Industry Association.
Commissioner, Victorian Industrial Relations Commission.
Federal Industrial Officer, Australian Postal and Telecommunications Union.
Federal Vice-President, Flight Attendants Association of Australia International Division, early to mid 1980s; Vice-President, Overseas Branch, early to mid 1980s; Councillor.
Executive Manager, Industrial Relations, Qantas Airways Ltd, since 2002.
Variety of roles including General Manager Operations (Australian Airlines); General Manager, Human Resources Commercial; General Manager, Employee Relations; and General Manager, Retail Sales Australia, since 1994.
Industrial Officer, Ansett Australia.
Kingsley Laffer Memorial Lecturer, University of Sydney, 2010.
Founding Member, Faculty of Business and Economics Industrial Advisory Board, Macquarie University, since 2010.
Current Member, Work and Organisational Studies Department Advisory Board, University of Sydney.
Member, World Congress Organising Committee, International Labour and Employment Relations Association, 2009.
Board Member, Odyssey House, Sydney, 2001-2004.
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Ken,
Commendable that her activities may be in other outside duties, but the fact remains that she has overseen the worst employee relations in the company's history.
I'd be interested in your yardstick for success wearing THIS particular hat during this period.
I suspect that none of the critical decisions were of her own making, rather that being at board level.
Commendable that her activities may be in other outside duties, but the fact remains that she has overseen the worst employee relations in the company's history.
I'd be interested in your yardstick for success wearing THIS particular hat during this period.
I suspect that none of the critical decisions were of her own making, rather that being at board level.
Last edited by AEROMEDIC; 26th Jan 2014 at 10:14. Reason: Typo due predictive text
Industrial Negotiation - Sue Bussell style
1. Turn up at the pre-arranged meeting with union to further negotiations.
2. Announce to all present that she is there to read a statement and there will be no discussion or questions wrt the statement.
3. Read the statement.
4. Leave the meeting.
She has great negotiation skills - doesn't she, Ken?
2. Announce to all present that she is there to read a statement and there will be no discussion or questions wrt the statement.
3. Read the statement.
4. Leave the meeting.
She has great negotiation skills - doesn't she, Ken?
I remain nonplussed at the various revelations of Qantas junior functionary behaviour, AMs notwithstanding...
The lately celebrated Ms. Bussel may have attracted kudos from the ususal suspects on this annual ritual of "she'll do nicely, mate" awards, but the reality persists: QF mangement, second tier executives and their direct reports have all been co-opted by a board and senior executive enthralled by an idealogical imperative. (Staff=Bad!) They are transfixed with the idée fixée that we are the enemy: the last pillbox between them and the final victory*
*with apologies to J. Goebells.
I long for an Australia Day when we celebrate the embodiment of the TRUE AUSSIE spirit a là Breaker Morant: the ability and willingness to call bull**** when bull**** is presented. To look beyond one's immediate monetary gains towards a higher, and greater, truth.
I do not expect to see, in the twenty or so years left to me, a business leader hailed for any of these attributes. More is the pity. I worry for my offspring in such a country.
The lately celebrated Ms. Bussel may have attracted kudos from the ususal suspects on this annual ritual of "she'll do nicely, mate" awards, but the reality persists: QF mangement, second tier executives and their direct reports have all been co-opted by a board and senior executive enthralled by an idealogical imperative. (Staff=Bad!) They are transfixed with the idée fixée that we are the enemy: the last pillbox between them and the final victory*
*with apologies to J. Goebells.
I long for an Australia Day when we celebrate the embodiment of the TRUE AUSSIE spirit a là Breaker Morant: the ability and willingness to call bull**** when bull**** is presented. To look beyond one's immediate monetary gains towards a higher, and greater, truth.
I do not expect to see, in the twenty or so years left to me, a business leader hailed for any of these attributes. More is the pity. I worry for my offspring in such a country.
I long for an Australia Day when we celebrate the embodiment of the TRUE AUSSIE spirit a là Breaker Morant: the ability and willingness to call bull**** when bull**** is presented. To look beyond one's immediate monetary gains towards a higher, and greater, truth.
I do not expect to see, in the twenty or so years left to me, a business leader hailed for any of these attributes. More is the pity. I worry for my offspring in such a country.
I do not expect to see, in the twenty or so years left to me, a business leader hailed for any of these attributes. More is the pity. I worry for my offspring in such a country.
I think that would probably end up more along the lines of an Agatha Christie murder mystery!! Everyone would own up to it, the difficulty would be in working out who _really_ did the deed, it would make great TV!
Bloody hilarious idea
Bloody hilarious idea
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Fair Dinkum????
Read more: Toyota waits on Federal Court ruling over union pay deal
And then it gets to court, and blow me down, if its not work choices by stealth, and it was coming to a work place near you......
A FEDERAL Court judge has blocked Toyota from seeking employees' votes on a new package which would cut entitlements, ruling the auto giant had breached the Fair Work Act.
And then...........
Toyota worker entitlements dispute: Federal Government to intervene in court action - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
So the question seems to be, is the government going to support this company in breaching the Fair Work Act?
And the other question seems to be, is a deal a deal in the eyes of the government? Some would say if you want to alter a work place agreement the appropriate and lawful time to do it is when it next comes up for negotiations.
In the political arena, its been said time and time again when public opinion swings against the government, "we will have to wait to the next election to vote and have our say". Or you go and see the Governor General......Oh dear......Same goes here.
The government should stay the hell out of it.
A deal is a deal.
Companies are lined up at FWA and the federal court awaiting this piece of bastardry. If its rolled over, you will see a stampede and return to corporate happiness. And your agreements wont be worth the paper they are written on.
That's unless everybody votes 'NO'......
And then it gets to court, and blow me down, if its not work choices by stealth, and it was coming to a work place near you......
A FEDERAL Court judge has blocked Toyota from seeking employees' votes on a new package which would cut entitlements, ruling the auto giant had breached the Fair Work Act.
And then...........
Toyota worker entitlements dispute: Federal Government to intervene in court action - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
So the question seems to be, is the government going to support this company in breaching the Fair Work Act?
And the other question seems to be, is a deal a deal in the eyes of the government? Some would say if you want to alter a work place agreement the appropriate and lawful time to do it is when it next comes up for negotiations.
In the political arena, its been said time and time again when public opinion swings against the government, "we will have to wait to the next election to vote and have our say". Or you go and see the Governor General......Oh dear......Same goes here.
The government should stay the hell out of it.
A deal is a deal.
Companies are lined up at FWA and the federal court awaiting this piece of bastardry. If its rolled over, you will see a stampede and return to corporate happiness. And your agreements wont be worth the paper they are written on.
That's unless everybody votes 'NO'......
Last edited by Acute Instinct; 28th Jan 2014 at 21:01.
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Then there's this little gem:
Call for pilot to fill Cosgrove's Qantas shoes
That's the first salvo in an attempt to convince Qantas employees to take a PAY CUT to pay for the reckless & grossly incompetent management.
Make no mistake, you are will be hearing much much more about your need to take a PAY CUT because things are so back.
Do not accept this absolutely manufactured crisis. Your PAY CUT will simply be used to fund the continued Asian expansion, and you will be impoverished & actually have less job security as it will enhance and enable acceleration of the off-shoring of this entire business.
Call for pilot to fill Cosgrove's Qantas shoes
Call for pilot to fill Cosgrove's Qantas shoes
The pilots union has already had informal talks with investors about the possibility and says it would help smooth the way for significant concessions that unions expect management to seek this year.
- STEVE CREEDY
- The Australian
- January 29, 2014 12:00AM
The pilots union has already had informal talks with investors about the possibility and says it would help smooth the way for significant concessions that unions expect management to seek this year.
Make no mistake, you are will be hearing much much more about your need to take a PAY CUT because things are so back.
Do not accept this absolutely manufactured crisis. Your PAY CUT will simply be used to fund the continued Asian expansion, and you will be impoverished & actually have less job security as it will enhance and enable acceleration of the off-shoring of this entire business.
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Any "CONCESSION" (euphemism) = PAY CUT will be utilized as management see fit.
They have demonstrated repeatedly (see Bruce Buchanan "400 aircraft in Asia by 2020" and Gareth Evans Asia is the new land of opportunity, paraphrasing his argument "we would be fools to miss it") that they see the future in Asia, not Australia. They are moving this business off-shore.
Any PAY CUT (not freeze, CUT) will simply be a way to continue to fund this process. Quite literally, Domestic in particular is a ca$h cow to be milked, its value extracted funding the Asian expansion.
This has all been very carefully stage managed over the last couple of years in order to provide the justification for an outcome that had already been predetermined, presented as a fait accompli. There is a plan behind the scenes, an agenda and it involves a much smaller future in Australia.
I offer no proof, except their own statements. However, they have offered no proof either, hiding behind secrecy and tricky "segment accounting" with a "trust us". Show us the proof.
Demand from your union a full & unfettered opening of the books prior to PAY CUT negotiations.
They have demonstrated repeatedly (see Bruce Buchanan "400 aircraft in Asia by 2020" and Gareth Evans Asia is the new land of opportunity, paraphrasing his argument "we would be fools to miss it") that they see the future in Asia, not Australia. They are moving this business off-shore.
Any PAY CUT (not freeze, CUT) will simply be a way to continue to fund this process. Quite literally, Domestic in particular is a ca$h cow to be milked, its value extracted funding the Asian expansion.
This has all been very carefully stage managed over the last couple of years in order to provide the justification for an outcome that had already been predetermined, presented as a fait accompli. There is a plan behind the scenes, an agenda and it involves a much smaller future in Australia.
I offer no proof, except their own statements. However, they have offered no proof either, hiding behind secrecy and tricky "segment accounting" with a "trust us". Show us the proof.
Demand from your union a full & unfettered opening of the books prior to PAY CUT negotiations.
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So could someone tell me A. How many crews do long haul have for each aircraft (both Tech,Cabin & engineering) and B. What is the actual pay and hours worked for the A380 long haul crews……I'm guessing no one will write the truth on here. 2-3 Million dollars per crew is something that cannot be sustained. You are kidding yourself if you think it can.
Back of envelope with some educated guessing involved - $1.7m. You have to understand that those pay rates are (depending on currency fluctuation) replaceable pretty much anywhere in the world. I have two good friends who have left Qf. One in the sandpit and one in asia. Sandpit driver thinks better than QF, Asian driver thinks about the same. Hours are PURELY dependant on rostering - and at Qf it is ridiculously wasteful to have crews on some fleets constantly on assigned leave. It is done in part (I think) to prove pilots are unproductive. Assigned pisses people off like nobodies business because pilots WANT to fly (and their pay is based on it).
Crew pay rates at QF ARE COMPETITIVE. The only thing at QF that isn't competitive is a management 'team' deliberately dismembering and self destructing the company.
Questions for you: How sustainable is it to park brand new financed aircraft around the world doing nothing? How sustainable is it for Qantas to be spending (or have spent) maybe a billion dollars trying to teach Asia how to operate an airline (because no one in Asia has ever thought to do it themselves). Among many, many other major, systemic problems How sustainable is it to gift profitable routes to other airlines? Or any routes for that matter.
It is ridiculous that this crazy crew pay argument comes up over and over and over and over again.
Crew pay rates at QF ARE COMPETITIVE. The only thing at QF that isn't competitive is a management 'team' deliberately dismembering and self destructing the company.
Questions for you: How sustainable is it to park brand new financed aircraft around the world doing nothing? How sustainable is it for Qantas to be spending (or have spent) maybe a billion dollars trying to teach Asia how to operate an airline (because no one in Asia has ever thought to do it themselves). Among many, many other major, systemic problems How sustainable is it to gift profitable routes to other airlines? Or any routes for that matter.
It is ridiculous that this crazy crew pay argument comes up over and over and over and over again.
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While I agree the pay for crew is a red herring mainly, I do wonder who here thinks it is appropriate that an ex 767 F/O, who switched back to A380 S/O, (seniority move ahead of the thinning of the herd of course), can be $70,000 a year BETTER off, and work less. I'm happy for it to be explained to me, but it really doesn't make any sense to me.......I know full well they are differing awards, but really, WTF?
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Apples with apples
Crew pay rates at QF ARE COMPETITIVE
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The claque re-emerges, ever eager to salivate over those considered unworthy and undeserving being brought to heel, by being stripped of income, conditions, or employment altogether.
Under the current board/management, I cannot see anyone accepting a pay cut.
However, if Joyce/Clifford go and someone is brought in from outside for a big management shakeup, then I think there might be some serious negotiations about pay freezes/cuts.
So what would it take:
1. New CEO on fixed salary $2m until ALL business segments profitable.
2. Max salary $1m for EXCO with limit of 5 people.
3. 2/3 board replacement over 5ys with 2 board positions union nominated.
4. Clear strategy for mainline to ensure sustainability (fleet replacement etc).
5. Removal of the $100m/yr plus management consultants. If you need someone to tell you how to do your job, then they can have your job.
etc etc
However, if Joyce/Clifford go and someone is brought in from outside for a big management shakeup, then I think there might be some serious negotiations about pay freezes/cuts.
So what would it take:
1. New CEO on fixed salary $2m until ALL business segments profitable.
2. Max salary $1m for EXCO with limit of 5 people.
3. 2/3 board replacement over 5ys with 2 board positions union nominated.
4. Clear strategy for mainline to ensure sustainability (fleet replacement etc).
5. Removal of the $100m/yr plus management consultants. If you need someone to tell you how to do your job, then they can have your job.
etc etc