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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 23rd Dec 2013, 07:52
  #1261 (permalink)  
 
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Bankrunner you may see that sooner than you think
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 09:35
  #1262 (permalink)  
 
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96% load factors to be profitable?

Nah, this is PPRuNe, if they don't get 103% load then they're stuffed and mainline will have to pay off the total debt of the USA.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 10:13
  #1263 (permalink)  
 
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Romulus.

The figure of 98% load factor (excluding ancillaries) to break even was quoted at a JQ staff briefing earlier this year by DH.

When I see high load factors published for JQ, it doesn't equate to profit.

V-Jet. My bad. That should have read muffins.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 10:55
  #1264 (permalink)  
 
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I've been through proud to be a associated with QF, honoured to get a job, knowing it 'will all be OK' to frustrated, apathetic, shocked, angry and now I just have to laugh and throw stupid comments back at 'them' (which should be 'we') about muffins/donuts. And you know, there is probably a very flashy ppt presentation in an office somewhere that shows exactly why muffins are better than donuts.

This is probably Australia's only true internationally recognised iconic brand we are openly mocking. And we actually care about the place!

You could not make this stuff up!

Wolf of Wall Street was surely not meant to be an airline owners handbook!!
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 11:38
  #1265 (permalink)  
 
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Talking

Your right V Jet.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

The QF 767 dedicated freighter goes in for Maintanence and the mainliners cover the flying.

It may have been more palatable if QF Freight weren't gearing up for some more promotional training early in the new year.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 19:19
  #1266 (permalink)  
 
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It typically costs a couple of million dollars per year to maintain a high cap AOC, these costs include the Head of Flight Ops, the head of Training and Checking, the administrative staff, compliance costs etc.

I can't see the value in having QF freight, an operation which flies aircraft operated by its owner, operate on a separate AOC.

Ah - The pilot costs are lower in QF freight I hear you say!

Possibly if you look at the costs on a per unit basis BUT the reality is that adding the night freight flying to the QF 737 and 767 pax flying results in a minuscule increase in overall flying and allows guys operating on min guaranteed hours or less each month to gain some flying. If someone needs leave, there are plenty of others to fill the seat. If you need sim, then you do sim anyway so it's covered, if someone goes sick there is a much bigger pool of available pilots to pick up the lost trip.

It is an incremental cost only

On the other hand you could do what they have done, employ people on lower terms and conditions but they only fly on night freight, so the work has to be spread across a dedicated group - this by itself makes it inherently inefficient.

Add to that the cost of sim, leave, reserve coverage, training if someone leaves to get a better paying job, the cost of paying for a separate management structure, and the lower salaries for the pilots becomes a much bigger overall cost to the mothership.

Economies of scale will almost always win out and having "boutique" operations just to screw wages down is short sighted and dumb.

After all, you canna change the laws of physics cap'n as a Scottish engineer would say and regardless of whether it is a mainline pilot or EFA pilot, the fuel burn will be roughly the same (the overall level of pissedoffness if that is a word I can use will impact this slightly), the air Nav charges are the same, the lease costs on each airframe are the same, the engineering support is basically the same (same discussion re engineering) , so your basic input costs - fuel, lease, maintenance, air Nav are all the same regardless of who crews the machines, so the motivation for separating out the pilot group must be to screw down wages.

So if Alan and the board want to save a million bucks a year off the cuff how about looking at the structure of the business and seeing where economies of scale can be made.

This seems opposite to what they are up to with the separation of AOC's etc, but breaking the operation up into smaller chunks can only increase your costs not decrease them, without achieving the ultimate aim which is supposedly accountability.

PS the same discussion could be had with regards that amaaazing business called Jetstar? QF operate A330's and did before JQ came on the scene. QF could have still bought A320's if they wanted, still painted them with the Jetstar branding, and still operated them on the QF mainline AOC. They could have CCQ'd the 330 crews and had them doing domestic and international work -efficient flying with lots of variety -economies of scale at work.

Would it have been cheaper? Dunno, but it is worth doing the maths and worth having a discussion from an industrial perspective to see what could have been done to better facilitate the flying being done by mainline.

V Australia and Virgin Blue tried the same thing when V was established. It didn't work and ultimately V was rolled into VB or VAA as it was by then.

Last edited by Snakecharma; 23rd Dec 2013 at 19:30.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 20:51
  #1267 (permalink)  
 
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#1310
Further example of QAL people management.

AirNZ approach QF to provide engineering coverage in Perth for the B777. AirNZ offer to provide and pay for the cost of training engineers. QF decline the offer.
Mstr Caution, nothing like giving a heads up to your major Australian competitor as well, imagine Air NZ making a quick call to Virgin and saying a few things like:
all systems go,
you can expand in Perth,
you are correct John, they haven't got a clue,
you are correct John, they are only focused on the FIFO segment,

A quick look at the Virgin Australia careers site shows a few jobs in Perth,
Safety and Quality Specialist,
Quality Assessor,
Ground Operations Outsourced Ports Trainer,
Reliability Team Support Advisor,
Flight Safety Manager,
Line Planning Engineer,
Regional Cabin Crew - Perth,


John's transformation continues........
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 21:04
  #1268 (permalink)  
 
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Snakecharma the old V Australia AOC is the VAI AOC in the Virgin Group. It didn't get rolled at all.
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 23:07
  #1269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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Borghetti to throw in free catering for domestic SLF

Virgin Australia keeps upping the ante in domestic. They've signalled they're going to start offering meals. What next - baggage included?

They're systematically eroding all QF's differentiation and doing it smartly. They're roasting Alan slowly.

When did you last see a marketing innovation from Qantas? Long before the dividends disappeared... Sack the CEO and the board now!
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Old 23rd Dec 2013, 23:51
  #1270 (permalink)  
 
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I wish "last unread post" worked...
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 01:11
  #1271 (permalink)  
 
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JB & his team must be getting pretty nervous about now. (Sarcasm applied)

AJ's got his weapon of choice, JQ.

VA's value for money service with a great product to holiday destinations like Bali, Fiji & Phuket versus AJ's JQ.

QF strategic mistakes were made years ago, replacing QF services with that of JQ. Forcing the JQ product on punters and marketing it as "now you have a choice"

Well. Now AJ's customers certainly do have a choice. VA.
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 01:18
  #1272 (permalink)  
 
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73 to 91.

AirNZ only wanted 2 engineers to cover their Perth 777 flying.

Rather than look at the contract as a revenue source, QF declined the revenue source.

Much like the Sydney international baggage handling. Five years ago QF baggage handlers turned around the majority of international services at Sydney. Progressively QF failed to pursue renewing handling contracts.

QF International baggage handlers would turn around other airlines in between QF services. QF didn't renew contracts, so handlers sat idle in between QF services shaking there heads at the loss of productivity.
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 01:40
  #1273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Happy Xmas fella's and girls. For all you "Orphans" over the next couple of days working,( we have all been there,) God speed home to your families, and to the Ginger Beers who miss out on the kids tomorrow, thanks for keeping the whole box and dice going. Have a good one all.
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 01:47
  #1274 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Teresa green

Would've loved to have been your FO, I believe I might have learnt a thing or three.

Merry Christmas to you and yours!
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 02:14
  #1275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
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You would have certainly learnt how to enjoy a cleansing ale, Goblin! Many a F/O went to bed, slightly pie eyed and confused, after a evening of aviation talk, up the track, about the ancestry and breeding habits of the many CEO's and CP's I worked under. The nerdy ones I always took to the Air Force Officers Mess in DRW. They were never the same after that, a whole new world opened up to them. Not always good, but a good start for the wonderful world of flying, if they wanted to survive! I still get a lot of Xmas Cards from my former F/O's, I am never sure if age has diminished their memories, or they were just forgiving! Have a great Xmas mate, and to you and yours.
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 02:52
  #1276 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mstr caution
73 to 91.

AirNZ only wanted 2 engineers to cover their Perth 777 flying.

Rather than look at the contract as a revenue source, QF declined the revenue source.

Much like the Sydney international baggage handling. Five years ago QF baggage handlers turned around the majority of international services at Sydney. Progressively QF failed to pursue renewing handling contracts.

QF International baggage handlers would turn around other airlines in between QF services. QF didn't renew contracts, so handlers sat idle in between QF services shaking there heads at the loss of productivity.
Why give your competitor a leg up? Provision of 2 engineers will hardly make a scratch to your revenue line but if you force your competitor to employ 2 people along with all the overhead then they are in a more costly position.

Of course, how they retaliate in NZ is another story.
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 03:05
  #1277 (permalink)  
 
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er, arent there already 777s flying to per?

whoever does those, could turn around airnz? qf may as well have taken the revenue if its gonna happen anyway?
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 03:26
  #1278 (permalink)  
 
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Romulus.

It's like the baggage handlers at Sydney International.

Five years ago, every other airline was giving Qantas a leg up.

QF was earning coin from turning around every other carriers aircraft. In between loading customer airlines they would load & unload QF aircraft. In effect the cost of employing Qantas staff was heavily subsidised.

Roll forward to present day. QF staff only turn around Air Canada, JAL, China Air Air Calin, Air NG & LAN Chile. It's got to the point where employing full time staff is not viable as they are sitting idle between jobs no longer being subsidised by contract work.

Five years ago the company was making money. Now they aren't. I'd say the current strategy isn't working.
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 03:26
  #1279 (permalink)  
 
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Goblin, has Teresa morphed into Ida
And if so what's the excuse for absence over the past many months

Edit - spelling
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Old 24th Dec 2013, 08:07
  #1280 (permalink)  
 
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Goblin, has Teresa morphed into Ida
And if so what's the excuse for absence over the past many months
It's Teresa as stated back in post 498


#498 (permalink) Fella's gidday, I have come out of retirement temporarily from being the old Teresa Green, as I am somewhat annoyed at the problems of QF and the incompetent management and board. I will not stay long. Three names worry me. Dixon, Singleton and Carnagie. They are hanging around like a dead dingo, and the smell does not go away. Dixon started the rot, in my eyes anyway, and I would not be surprised to see him at the carcase for a final chew. Along with his mates. Your thoughts?
one big happy family again...

Sadly my Qantas youtube channel has been cancelled by Qantas management again, (no sense of humour ) because I posted the 2013 AGM for the staff out of the country giving them the opportunity to see it when they got back, that video only had a couple of hundred hits so what are they hiding? ... I couldn't be bothered fighting them as you would think an AGM podcast was public domain for a large public company like Qantas and I am a shareholder..







Trust 2014 see's Qantas happy & growing again, you all deserve that,



Wishing you all wonderful Christmas & a Happy New Year, and a special thought to all who are away from the family working over the holiday period "keeping the show on the road" as usual..


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