MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
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Every time I read this heading I think, stiff SH*T Alan!
If only he were unhappy, but I'm sure that whatever happens he'll walk away with a smile on his face and a fat wallet!
So far the QF staff have been treated with 'soft gloves' compared to what Willie did when he started at BA.
Within 2 years of being there he had 'restructured' ground staff and engineering. Made 78 pilots redundant (voluntarily) and totally restructured the pilot pay structure leading to around an 8 - 10% pay cut straight off the bat. He has since managed to restructure the pay again for flight crew leading to much lower yearly increments and the introduction of much 'cheaper' cadets.
Also in this time he let the Cabin Crew go on strike, keep the airline flying using ground staff who were EP trained at short notice, sacked the two main union organises from the Cabin Crew for very very minor indiscretions. The result of this was a brand new cabin crew fleet who were paid much less, worked harder and are promoted by merit not seniority.
It would appear that so far Alan has talked the talk but has failed to actually take any meaningful action. This is what I find the most confusing, all the messages coming from HQ are the same that Willie sent out, Willie followed it up though with fairly decisive action. Alan seems to be wandering around like a headless chook, I am suprised the board have put up with the 'lack' of action, makes me think that there must be a 'plan' that they are all privy too and we are just in the phase of getting all the 'ducks in a row'. Either that or the board and management are actually clueless??? probably a 50/50 between which one.
Within 2 years of being there he had 'restructured' ground staff and engineering. Made 78 pilots redundant (voluntarily) and totally restructured the pilot pay structure leading to around an 8 - 10% pay cut straight off the bat. He has since managed to restructure the pay again for flight crew leading to much lower yearly increments and the introduction of much 'cheaper' cadets.
Also in this time he let the Cabin Crew go on strike, keep the airline flying using ground staff who were EP trained at short notice, sacked the two main union organises from the Cabin Crew for very very minor indiscretions. The result of this was a brand new cabin crew fleet who were paid much less, worked harder and are promoted by merit not seniority.
It would appear that so far Alan has talked the talk but has failed to actually take any meaningful action. This is what I find the most confusing, all the messages coming from HQ are the same that Willie sent out, Willie followed it up though with fairly decisive action. Alan seems to be wandering around like a headless chook, I am suprised the board have put up with the 'lack' of action, makes me think that there must be a 'plan' that they are all privy too and we are just in the phase of getting all the 'ducks in a row'. Either that or the board and management are actually clueless??? probably a 50/50 between which one.
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Ollie Onion, I think you just described Jetstar! As for the CC, QF did just that when the CC went on strike, in the 80's over the galleys, on the SP. The ground staff started flying, and came home to cars with no wheels, or painted a unpleasant color, or no car at all. It was not a great success for the ground staff one can only say. The CC who carried out the carnage, never got caught, and it cost QF quite a bit to fix up the cars. Unionism, at its best and finest.
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Ollie, the difference is that Joyce & management have been severely distracted from the core business setting up FOUR separate franchises in FOUR separate Asian jurisdictions in a headlong rush to achieve CAGR's of 30+%.
Too much rush to grow into the Asian century land (air) grab, too few making too many decisions in cultures almost impenetrable to the western mind.
Too much rush to grow into the Asian century land (air) grab, too few making too many decisions in cultures almost impenetrable to the western mind.
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QF management trained up a bunch of people, back 10 or so years ago, and bused them to EP training on blackened windowed buses in the middle of the night to be used as Strike Breakers when CC threatened strike action over Christmas.
I think they were issued King Gee trousers and Polo Shirts as the uniform.
Smoke and Mirrors.
Nothing happened.
Precedents that Lucky Charms is surely looking at :
Sabena and Swiss Air
Reasons for bankruptcy
[The reasons for SABENA's bankruptcy are numerous. One of the direct causes was Swissair not living up to their contractual obligations and failing to inject necessary funds into the company. This was because at the time Swissair was having its own financial problems. During the so-called "Hotel agreement", signed on July 17, 2001, Belgian prime minister Guy Verhofstadt met with Swissair boss Mario Corti, who agreed to inject €258 million into SABENA. Mr Corti had made a terrible mistake as the sum was never paid, due to Swissair's own financial problems. The purchase of 34 new Airbus planes, imposed by the Swiss, was a burden SABENA could not cope with.
After the bankruptcy, a parliamentary commission in Belgium was established to investigate the demise of the airline. The Belgian politicians got a part of the blame; Rik Daems, who, at the time, was Minister of Public Enterprises and Participations, Telecommunication and Middle Classes, received most criticism due to his lack of effort. Swissair itself went bankrupt in October of that year.]
After the bankruptcy, Sabena restarted part of its operation through its subsidairy Delta Air Transport (DAT). Named it SN Brussels
Theres nothing to stop QANTAS shutting the asbestos filled doors and restarting the QANTAS "BRAND" under a subsidiary company. They own enough airlines to pick one and start up again on lower cost base.
Lucky Charms will run the company into the ground , say BANKRUPT, let the receivers come in and pay out the super payments, The "Abbott" will allow the company to restart as Australia needs a "National Icon" airline.
Call it "Trans Qantas Australian Styled Premium Airline Related Flying Machine Airways", give the 35000 unemployed a chance to regain their dignity by offering them the same job, in the same uniform (sans Kangaroo) but on less conditions then VOILA. Success. There's enough AN staff in senior management at QF that can talk them through the process.
Lucky Charms gets a fat cheque to go home and feed to his "wife" and then as the saviour of "Trans Qantas Australian Styled Premium Airline Related Flying Machine Airways" gets to retire and move back to LeprechaunLand. Maybe even open a pub in County Cork with Dixon and Clifford as board directors.
"The Italian" says HAHA I won, Branson sells the remainder to SG, NZ and the arabs and the Virgin Brand becomes Stralia's National Airline Icon.
The Aussie battler wins against big business.
See how far the boys can pee up the wall, Thats what its all about.
I think they were issued King Gee trousers and Polo Shirts as the uniform.
Smoke and Mirrors.
Nothing happened.
Precedents that Lucky Charms is surely looking at :
Sabena and Swiss Air
Reasons for bankruptcy
[The reasons for SABENA's bankruptcy are numerous. One of the direct causes was Swissair not living up to their contractual obligations and failing to inject necessary funds into the company. This was because at the time Swissair was having its own financial problems. During the so-called "Hotel agreement", signed on July 17, 2001, Belgian prime minister Guy Verhofstadt met with Swissair boss Mario Corti, who agreed to inject €258 million into SABENA. Mr Corti had made a terrible mistake as the sum was never paid, due to Swissair's own financial problems. The purchase of 34 new Airbus planes, imposed by the Swiss, was a burden SABENA could not cope with.
After the bankruptcy, a parliamentary commission in Belgium was established to investigate the demise of the airline. The Belgian politicians got a part of the blame; Rik Daems, who, at the time, was Minister of Public Enterprises and Participations, Telecommunication and Middle Classes, received most criticism due to his lack of effort. Swissair itself went bankrupt in October of that year.]
After the bankruptcy, Sabena restarted part of its operation through its subsidairy Delta Air Transport (DAT). Named it SN Brussels
Theres nothing to stop QANTAS shutting the asbestos filled doors and restarting the QANTAS "BRAND" under a subsidiary company. They own enough airlines to pick one and start up again on lower cost base.
Lucky Charms will run the company into the ground , say BANKRUPT, let the receivers come in and pay out the super payments, The "Abbott" will allow the company to restart as Australia needs a "National Icon" airline.
Call it "Trans Qantas Australian Styled Premium Airline Related Flying Machine Airways", give the 35000 unemployed a chance to regain their dignity by offering them the same job, in the same uniform (sans Kangaroo) but on less conditions then VOILA. Success. There's enough AN staff in senior management at QF that can talk them through the process.
Lucky Charms gets a fat cheque to go home and feed to his "wife" and then as the saviour of "Trans Qantas Australian Styled Premium Airline Related Flying Machine Airways" gets to retire and move back to LeprechaunLand. Maybe even open a pub in County Cork with Dixon and Clifford as board directors.
"The Italian" says HAHA I won, Branson sells the remainder to SG, NZ and the arabs and the Virgin Brand becomes Stralia's National Airline Icon.
The Aussie battler wins against big business.
See how far the boys can pee up the wall, Thats what its all about.
Theres nothing to stop QANTAS shutting the asbestos filled doors and restarting the QANTAS "BRAND" under a subsidiary company.
An application by the subsidiary for an AOC, or by QAL for approval to allow the subsidiary to ‘borrow’ QAL’s AOC, would be a very interesting test of CASA’s independence and integrity.
Now there’s a new concept: A ‘split’ AOC.
Tell me what a ‘split’ AOC means.
Do you mean that operations that were being conducted under one AOC held by one entity will be ‘split’ between two entities and two AOCs? If yes, who are the two entities?
Tell me what a ‘split’ AOC means.
Do you mean that operations that were being conducted under one AOC held by one entity will be ‘split’ between two entities and two AOCs? If yes, who are the two entities?
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Creampuff, you're absolutely correct, I should have used the term "split" much more carefully. In reality its domestic making an application for an entirely new AOC. Apparently its the largest & most complex application to CASA ever - image the $$$$$ spent on that! Just what Alan needs in the middle of a capacity war.
Not only that, they get to double up on management, two of everything, jobs for the mates all round! Another stoke of genius.
Just remember, its the bloody overpaid & lazy pilots that are cruelling this operation.
Not only that, they get to double up on management, two of everything, jobs for the mates all round! Another stoke of genius.
Just remember, its the bloody overpaid & lazy pilots that are cruelling this operation.
And any exec bleating that the bonus structure is there is to attract "the best" can be the first to go.
"The best" have had their time and well and truly screwed the pooch.
"The best" have had their time and well and truly screwed the pooch.
.The great bonus giveaway has seen the Accor/QANTAS partnership move from the airport lounges to the HO corporate reception/switchboard.
Apparently plenty of lies, e.g. QANTAS could not believe what Accor, who the staff will be working for, were paying. Contracts offered this week and the figure offered $21 p/h, was certainly not what the staff were told in discussions - that's called a lie. The QANTAS side not happy with selection process, QANTAS side not happy with Accor asking about 5 star hotel experience at interviews, QANTAS side concerned about lack of knowledge about QANTAS departments/sections department heads and locations when the Accor dream team move in.
QANTAS get what they deserve though won't they? reduced staff and overheads, a big bonus for doing that - bonus for short term result.
QANTAS will get what they deserve though won't they? wait for the 1st invoice to come in from Accor and QANTAS might ask why so many people on the books, person who got the bonus well, they got it, spent it and don't care - no bonus for long term plan and result
What's this got to do with pilots? zip, just a bit for all readers from within to see what is happening, your role might be next if it hasn't already been outsourced.
short flights long nights
Another week goes past and still Alan says or does nothing. I fear the elastic band is being stretched tighter and tighter and it is really going to hurt when it finally snaps.
In reality its domestic making an application for an entirely new AOC.
Are you saying QAL has applied for another AOC, authorising only domestic ops?
Or are you saying an entity related to but separate from QAL has applied for an AOC, authorising only domestic ops?
The AOC split I'm guessing has more to do with the fact that foreigners can own 100% of a domestic airline in Australia ala Tiger, Rex, Skywest, Cobham etc. They can't own majority international airlines.
The split was organised probably in anticipation of the QSA being relaxed one day, the domestic operation to being able to be essentially owned by foreigners and being then able to have defacto control over the international operation, exactly what Qantas accuse Virgin of doing.
However, that's all just a guess.
The split was organised probably in anticipation of the QSA being relaxed one day, the domestic operation to being able to be essentially owned by foreigners and being then able to have defacto control over the international operation, exactly what Qantas accuse Virgin of doing.
However, that's all just a guess.
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Creampuff - there has been very little in the way of concrete information about the "Domestic" AOC "application". Suffice to say that it appears that only the B737 operation will be operated under this new AOC, and I cannot even say that with 100% certainty.
Given that it is still at the application stage, we won't actually know what's in it until it descends to the low level functionaries with CASA's still wet stamp.
Given that it is still at the application stage, we won't actually know what's in it until it descends to the low level functionaries with CASA's still wet stamp.
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SOPS, may I enquire as to why you have such an interest in Mr Joyce's media proclamations or lack thereof? You appear from other posts to be employed by a Middle Eastern carrier.
You wouldn't be a member of that illustrious club of regular posters on this thread, salivating over anticipated schadenfreude at the perceived prospect of 30 000 people becoming unemployed, would you?
You wouldn't be a member of that illustrious club of regular posters on this thread, salivating over anticipated schadenfreude at the perceived prospect of 30 000 people becoming unemployed, would you?
Last edited by Fool Sufferer; 20th Dec 2013 at 22:10.
short flights long nights
No actually Fool Sufferer, I am a person that is very worried about the fate of Qantas, and having been through 89, there is no way that I would wish that on anyone in Qantas, especially some good freinds. There is no way I want to see the demise of Qantas.