MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
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If entire group costs really are to be considered as opposed to individual group company cost structures, as has been the case for the last decade.
The question needs to be asked, should pilots on LWOP with other parts of the group be transferred back to a position that will require additional training, add to a surplus & require more training to replace 2 positions (Capt & FO who replaces Capt).
Reminds me of when Jetstar received A330's. Qf pilots were & still are being assigned leave, whilst additional pilots were hired into the group to fly existing group A330's. Only for those aircraft to be given back & the Jetstar pilots now being trained to fly Boeing's whilst Qantas has an excess of Boeing pilots.
Must be saving millions hiring all these additional crews so we can get the leave balance down.
Meanwhile the Jetstar cadet sausage factory continues to produce. Maybe they could be sent to Toulouse for base training to put some hours on the operational spares.
The question needs to be asked, should pilots on LWOP with other parts of the group be transferred back to a position that will require additional training, add to a surplus & require more training to replace 2 positions (Capt & FO who replaces Capt).
Reminds me of when Jetstar received A330's. Qf pilots were & still are being assigned leave, whilst additional pilots were hired into the group to fly existing group A330's. Only for those aircraft to be given back & the Jetstar pilots now being trained to fly Boeing's whilst Qantas has an excess of Boeing pilots.
Must be saving millions hiring all these additional crews so we can get the leave balance down.
Meanwhile the Jetstar cadet sausage factory continues to produce. Maybe they could be sent to Toulouse for base training to put some hours on the operational spares.
toulouse
get with the plan...
This could be a thread on its own... The possibilities are both endlessly humorous and suggestive.
Before BGA makes a full frontal assault on Eastern Europe, has it occurred to anyone that it might be worth pointing out that the Russian Winter is more than a tad 'brisk'?
Taking on the Red Army and hoping QF International could continue to supply loyal Jetstar crews through a Northern Winter might possibly stretch the organisation to breaking point...
BGA is a shoe in for Adolf. Chief Pilot International obviously plays Goering, but who is Stalin? There are at least half a dozen I could think of just off the top of my head
Adolf only had one Stalingrad, BGA is creating them all over the globe!!
If nothing else works, then a total inability to look facts in the face will see us through!!
PS: Borghetti is Claus von Stauffenberg, but doesn't die tragically - he gets to join the Allies after a daring escape...
Before BGA makes a full frontal assault on Eastern Europe, has it occurred to anyone that it might be worth pointing out that the Russian Winter is more than a tad 'brisk'?
Taking on the Red Army and hoping QF International could continue to supply loyal Jetstar crews through a Northern Winter might possibly stretch the organisation to breaking point...
BGA is a shoe in for Adolf. Chief Pilot International obviously plays Goering, but who is Stalin? There are at least half a dozen I could think of just off the top of my head
Adolf only had one Stalingrad, BGA is creating them all over the globe!!
If nothing else works, then a total inability to look facts in the face will see us through!!
PS: Borghetti is Claus von Stauffenberg, but doesn't die tragically - he gets to join the Allies after a daring escape...
Last edited by V-Jet; 29th Mar 2014 at 11:09.
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...Jetstar pilots now being trained to fly Boeing's whilst Qantas has an excess of Boeing pilots.
whether or not it has saved any money up till now who knows, but qf crew on jq flights does not serve their end game
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whether or not it has saved any money up till now who knows, but qf crew on jq flights does not serve their end game.
If pilots where recruited "to group" and deployed where required. There would not be the current situation where there are 200 excess Qantas pilots & also Jetstar pilots currently looking at LOA.
I agree there would be a surplus, but not to the magnitude that currently exists.
The "Group" conveniently froze MOU opportunities for QF pilots to transfer to JQ from as early as 2009. At the same time there was a published QF pilot excess of 180 pilots. Whilst QF pilots either took LOA, forced leave or remained at mainline surplus in rank, JQ continued to recruit in large numbers.
The correct application of the MOU is still not being applied today. There should be advertisements within JQ of available B737 FO slots in mainline. The ghost seniority numbers in mainline currently allow JQ FO to transfer to mainline should they wish to apply. I'm not saying current JQ pilots would all be jumping at the chance to transfer across. However, they should be demanding the opportunity should they so choose.
The next training years allocations will be out soon. If the QF Group want any form of pilot engagement, every promotion both sides of the fence shall be advertised as available. Per the MOU.
If I was at JQ and wanted the opportunity to transfer to mainline, I would be stamping my feet asking why the MOU is not being offered.
The end game has always been to have two separate pilot groups between QF & JQ. But at what cost? 200 excess pilots at QF and X amount of excess pilots at JQ. Surely that is more of a cost than the pay savings differential.
Alan's not happy !!
I couldn't give a S&#t. Everything these managers have touched has turned to S&#t.
Give me a real CEO who's actually interested in growing Qantas mainline & i'll give you real efficiencies in the next EBA. Show me the 1 or 3, 5 or 10 year plan to turn mainline around with fuel efficient jets. Otherwise there is no way on earth I would ever contemplate a pay freeze for these clowns.
MC.
Thread Starter
most of the jq 787 pilots have significant boeing time. irrelevant anyway because anyone going on it needs to do a course whether they are a qf boeing pilot or not
. Give me a real CEO who's actually interested in growing Qantas mainline & i'll give you real efficiencies in the next EBA. Show me the 1 or 3, 5 or 10 year plan to turn mainline around with fuel efficient jets. Otherwise there is no way on earth I would ever contemplate a pay freeze for these clowns.
Screw these fools
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The correct application of the MOU is still not being applied today. There should be advertisements within JQ of available B737 FO slots in mainline. The ghost seniority numbers in mainline currently allow JQ FO to transfer to mainline should they wish to apply. I'm not saying current JQ pilots would all be jumping at the chance to transfer across. However, they should be demanding the opportunity should they so choose.
The next training years allocations will be out soon. If the QF Group want any form of pilot engagement, every promotion both sides of the fence shall be advertised as available. Per the MOU.
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Clearly you don’t understand the MOU. The only people in JQ who can transfer to QF under the MOU are the top 100 JQ pilots – NOT the FO’s
[QUOTE]All of those pilots are either 787 Captains, or have the seniority to be a 787 Captain[QUOTE]
Really? Are there 100 JQ B787 Captains or training slots for the current 3 JQ aircraft?
Nunc est bibendum
I’d rather see no more abuse of the MOU by continuing one way traffic. An easy way to slightly improve engagement in JQ is to get rid of the MOU.
Throw in fleet pay across the organisation and we'll cut down the training costs considerably too.
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Originally Posted by Keg
I agree. Group seniority and date of joining. Y list for each of the entities from the date of acquisition of each of them. Can't get much fairer than that I would have though?
Seriously, they will wear the excess pilots managed with assigned leave, as they have since 2005, wear the training costs, whatever it takes to avoid allowing the pilots to form one cohesive body. Virtually every management action WRT pilots is about creating as many divided, feuding groups as possible. A few gain massively with rapid promotion by sheer accident because they happen to be in the right spot at the right time, but virtually every pilot within the "Qantas Group" loses. You see this with the unhappiness about the MOU by both QF & JQ pilots, as well as regional pilots moving elsewhere.
Management is the enemy, not your fellow group pilots.
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It's a great idea......employed by the Qantas Group and move around inside it to where the business demands are!Unfortunately this side of the business was not explored to it's full potential where an uneven playing field exists now......years of service are NOT recognised in all parts of the business if ya jump around in it!
"Civil disobedience"
Does this mean we are headed for another shutdown, the death blow Alan is after perhaps?
Does this mean we are headed for another shutdown, the death blow Alan is after perhaps?
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the death blow Alan is after perhaps?
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I'd rather get the public onside then offside.
Nominate a date for example 1st July.
Employees pay a special association/union levy equal to a days pay.
Work that day to show the public we are working in good faith & have the days pay (special levy) paid to a charity by the applicable association / union.
Promote the work for a day free (donated to charity) as a claim for public support to remove the CEO and board.
There would be a greater degree of public support when the travelling public hasn't been disrupted, meanwhile it's a protest against the current management.
I don't believe donating a days pay to charity is any form of unprotected industrial action.
MC
Nominate a date for example 1st July.
Employees pay a special association/union levy equal to a days pay.
Work that day to show the public we are working in good faith & have the days pay (special levy) paid to a charity by the applicable association / union.
Promote the work for a day free (donated to charity) as a claim for public support to remove the CEO and board.
There would be a greater degree of public support when the travelling public hasn't been disrupted, meanwhile it's a protest against the current management.
I don't believe donating a days pay to charity is any form of unprotected industrial action.
MC
Good Idea MC. I think all the staff have had enough of these clowns.
FYSTI-Work already done by AIPA, called a Group Mobility Scheme but as far back as 1999 proposals such as these have been intercepted on the way to the board by the words "Pilots united, they are in charge, Pilots divided, we are in charge!"- Guess who? Ian Oldmeadow. How much has he cost the company?
FYSTI-Work already done by AIPA, called a Group Mobility Scheme but as far back as 1999 proposals such as these have been intercepted on the way to the board by the words "Pilots united, they are in charge, Pilots divided, we are in charge!"- Guess who? Ian Oldmeadow. How much has he cost the company?
Don't get me wrong, I am all for a show of unity, but I cannot see there is any form of "civil disobedience" available to pilots that he can't/wont't turn back upon us.
I personally think 5000 ex-employees in a class action would be fun to observe.
I personally think 5000 ex-employees in a class action would be fun to observe.