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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 16th Mar 2014, 13:48
  #3461 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
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Fed Sec:
Im so f&&&&en angry that it NEEDS a regulator to even be involved. This is iconic Qantas, not a tin pot GA startup! Like ASIC with corporate fraud (another 'totally unrelated' subject) if you rely on them in real life to head off problems then you will get caught. They are only (in my experience) helpful in hindsight when something has already gone wrong and they are forced to act, or be seen to have acted.

I completely understand your anger. I dont know how you deal with it so calmly. I would be reaching across tables strangling people.

Ive dealt with ASIC and they are Council workers who want to get home each day with as little on their desks as possible for the next day.

There is nothing wrong with the rules, just they are not policed.

CASA seems like ASIC.

That does not surprise me. What now surprises me is how accepting I have become with the 'regulators' inaction. You are absolutely correct to point out how wrong that attitude is.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 17:53
  #3462 (permalink)  
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They knew all about this. What would motivate them to lie to the press??? Are they so ****en stupid to think that we don't keep records? I am so angry that this mob that are meant to be our Regulator can be so untrustworthy
Good point Steve, a good reminder how Government, Government agencies and the Qantas management fit in so well with each other in my view..

V-Jet nails it
I've dealt with ASIC and they are Council workers who want to get home each day with as little on their desks as possible for the next day.

There is nothing wrong with the rules, just they are not policed.

CASA seems like ASIC.
As are most of those Senators at that inquiry last week, really was a waste of time and money, Two high quality submissions Submissions ? Parliament of Australia was largely ignored in my view, as if they were way above their heads for them to get a grasp of what is really going on in the industry. I too have tried and failed with ASIC, they are simply not interested..

Originally Posted by Shark Patrol
The two things they were talking about here were "P&L" - profit and loss - versus cash flow. What Evans was saying was that the routes still being flown by QF International are cash flow positive (meaning the flights are making money), but that QF International are doing badly on profit and loss. So, by extrapolation, the flights are making some profit, but not enough to counter the losses that are being made elsewhere - maintenance costs or labour costs, by inference. What the senators weren't cluey enough to ask was where QF International was losing money and whether Jetstar cost-shifting was taking place.
Again the wrong people asking accounting questions, (other than Nick X, but time restrictions got the better of him) they simply don't understand what Joyce & Co are getting away with, think about it, if Joyce had nothing to hide then why would he bring his head lawyer with him? It's simple, he's hiding something.. we know it, probably many in the so called regulator agencies know it but nothing ever happens.

What now surprises me is how accepting I have become with the 'regulators' inaction. You are absolutely correct to point out how wrong that attitude is
Is basically where we are all at again.... and again.. its become the Australian way.

There must be someone in this country who can order a forensic study into the accounts at Qantas for example.. or force CASA to come clean etc. other than going through countless Senate inquiries that never get much coverage and always end up going nowhere.

On the upside, what has changed, the mainstream media almost daily now are calling for AJ to quit.

And in the background, calls are growing louder for Alan Joyce to quit as the airline's long serving chief executive.
The Irish born Australian citizen - who controversially grounded the entire Qantas fleet in late 2011 in his fight with unions - is vowing to stay on.
Mr Joyce once joked in his first ABC interview as Qantas boss back in 2008 that he took a "hospital pass" from his tough talking predecessor Geoff Dixon.
The question now is whether any corporate warrior would have the nerve and stamina to take a hospital pass from Mr Joyce.
Qantas: What's the future for the flying kangaroo? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
It's a mess, the question is, how loud do people have to shout before anything ever gets done in this country?

I don't know how you deal with it so calmly.
I think everyone in the industry do an outstanding job considering the events of the past few years, true professionals..

What's the future for the Flying Kangaroo? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 21:14
  #3463 (permalink)  
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A forensic audit of the Qantas books will not work. The accountants wouldn't know where to look and it is too easy for Qantas to hide shit. When they were getting close, they give them Chairman's lounge memberships and presto, they come out giving them a clean bill of health.

Qantas offered this via the ACTU last year and AIPA and ALAEA said no worries but we want one of our nominated Reps present the entire time to make sure the accountants understood the areas to look in. Qantas would not allow this forensic investigation to take place with anyone with any aviation knowledge there.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 22:55
  #3464 (permalink)  
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Pretty sure you or the pax don't want to see a 5 plus ton engine bouncing down the runway just on rotate
Been done before - American Airlines 191 at Chicago in 1979. Didn't end well.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 23:12
  #3465 (permalink)  
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Ansett found a couple of problems with the 767's in 2000 & 2001, fixed them & self reported. The fleet was grounded by CASA - twice! QF seems to have a growing number of issues that are at least as serious as those, but has never had even one aircraft grounded by CASA.

What has changed? Is CASA a different beast these days? Does QF have some sort of control over them? Is there political interference? Or is the 'National Carrier' simply untouchable?
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 23:36
  #3466 (permalink)  
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 23:59
  #3467 (permalink)  
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CASA doesn't have the competency, let alone the balls, to ever find fault with Qantas.

Pilot mate talked about one of CASA'a surviellance efforts - when shown some systems and data, they couldn't even understand what they were looking at, let alone analyze and critique what was happening.

CASA is happier beating up GA children. (cue "The Bold Gendarmes")
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 01:15
  #3468 (permalink)  
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Seems some bond traders understand why Alan’s not happy.
Doubts over Qantas Airways Ltd. (QAN)’s plan to stem losses pushed bond risk for Australia’s biggest carrier above that of Air France-KLM Group, which is attempting a turnaround from near bankruptcy.

Credit-default swaps protecting against non-payment of Qantas’s debt have risen by 48 basis points since Feb. 28 to 300 on March 13, the highest level since November 2012. Risk for Air France-KLM fell to a three-year low on March 7 as the carrier’s Chief Executive Officer Alexandre de Juniac, who said it had been “heading to bankruptcy," refocused on premium fliers.
Source:Qantas Risk Tops Air France-KLM on Plan Doubts: Australia Credit - Bloomberg

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Old 17th Mar 2014, 02:17
  #3469 (permalink)  
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Seems some bond traders understand why Alan’s not happy
Oh dear, this is serious now! Bloomberg doesn't write this stuff for the fun of it...

“If revenue keeps falling the profit margin might remain very similar despite all the cost cuts,” Raymond Lee, who helps manage about A$6.5 billion at the Sydney-based fund, said by phone. “There hasn’t been any real positive news about the underlying business.”
Annual revenue at the 93-year-old carrier will fall this year for just the fourth time since 1993, according to the median of 12 analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg.

Losing Control

Qantas will have to borrow money to pay for planes and other capital spending during the year through June due to negative free cash flow, chief executive Alan Joyce forecast Dec. 5. The measure, which shows how much cash is left over from sales once operating costs and capital spending have been paid, has only been positive in one year since Joyce took over in November 2008, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
All the negative talk from Alan the last 3 years is now hurting the company big time... hope he is very happy with his self trumped "transformation" progress...

What happened to the trading environment? - YouTube


Last edited by TIMA9X; 17th Mar 2014 at 03:24. Reason: add link
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 02:55
  #3470 (permalink)  
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ALAEA Sec at Qantas Senate Inquiry

I have copied the ALAEA Sec and Joyce at the Senate Inquiry into Qantas but didn't display it until now as I thought it may have been copied from the APAC Channel (Foxtel) by some one else. I missed out on copying the others as I turned it on too late. So, I believe TIMEX has already shown Joyce, so here is Steve P.:

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Old 17th Mar 2014, 04:07
  #3471 (permalink)  
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Why is it Fed Sec is pushed for answers, yet BGA supplies none of substance?

Its like there are two different sets of Senators.

Just think how Fed Sec would have been pilloried if he had answered questions the way BGA didn't. Talk about man who knows what he's talking about vs someone who knows nothing about what he's talking about.


Jesus Christ! Amazing work and depth of knowledge Fed Sec. This STILL hasn't been looked at seriously!!!!

Last edited by V-Jet; 17th Mar 2014 at 04:35.
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 04:39
  #3472 (permalink)  
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Indeed you are correct, and this was the result of dodgy shortcuts in work practices also. Such a terrible loss.

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Old 17th Mar 2014, 05:22
  #3473 (permalink)  
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Angel Fed Sec Responses

Steve P demonstrated that the majority of the Senators were fishing for answers that were already made available in the ALAE submission. I took the trouble to read it so it beats me why the senate committee did not, with the exception of Senator X, do the same.

The answers given by Steve P to rambling questions by the venerable senators were clear and concise which did not need further explanation.

I have worked as a contracted LAME in overseas organizations, albeit many years ago, as well as part of the regulatory team that had the responsibility of oversight (not as part of CASA) of MRO's in Asian and European countries. With the odd exception the people I dealt with we're skilled, professional and focused on the tasks at hand and able to demonstrate compliance with whatever rules and regulations were in place at that time.

However, time has changed this attitude I believe and it Falls upon the folk such as in the ALAE to keep the hard questions coming and not be put off by those who don't like the truth.

Many years ago I was a member of the ALAE, but resigned in 1982.

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Old 17th Mar 2014, 06:06
  #3474 (permalink)  

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Thanks for that.

ALAE Fed Sec 👍 Elephant stamp for calmness under fire. And as Nkosi demurs they clearly had not read your submission.

I could not see which Sen other than the obvious but I will now read the Hansard, barrows being pushed but I'm nt sure by whom. Having said that the Sen's are entitled to assure themselves re motive. I think you sorted that well.

And what more is there to say about CASA. I have over the years actually given them the smoking gun, vids and witnesses of the act and body, without even a twitch and I know I am not alone.

Last time I attempted to ventilate this subject my post disappeared and I was excoriated and told to go play with my toys somewhere else. Make no mistake QF and it pains me to say it, is in deep trouble. Laying down huge smokescreens in order to retreat from the scene of imminent defeat and hopefully regroup is a well proven tactic in extremis.
The Government is desperate not to have to intervene or let them go, either alternative is fraught.
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 06:49
  #3475 (permalink)  
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Transcript Of Fridays hearing
Complete Transcript
Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee;14/03/2014;Qantas's future as a strong national carrier supporting jobs in Australia - 14 Mar 2014 .pdf version

Alan Joyce / Qantas specific Fragment .pdf version
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 07:25
  #3476 (permalink)  
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Dash 8? Don't have such high hopes, it will be a Jabiru in QF colours authorised not below Transition altitude and 60% power for next year......
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 07:42
  #3477 (permalink)  
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and 60% power for next year......
Just Like the Cars!

Gotta say the Cars were so quiet that we thought we were at the tennis.

Anyway, back to sledging BGA.
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 07:46
  #3478 (permalink)  
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Photos: Beech 24R... Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Maybe they could get this lil guy up and running by next year?
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 09:37
  #3479 (permalink)  
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...blah blah blah...... What an absolute disappointment... It was well publicised that an A380 was doing the flypast before the start of the GP, and they turn up in this!!!...a real 3rd world attempt.
Next week it's the Malaysian GP........gawd I hope MAS show some tact.....
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Old 17th Mar 2014, 09:56
  #3480 (permalink)  
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We may vote for different parties but I take my hat off to you for dealing so professionally with such a bunch of morons (Sen X excluded from that rant).

Sen Edwards, you sir are an ignorant, lazy, pribbling, ill-nurtured, moldwarp.

Stick with the facts and they will ultimately be the winning hand.
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