Airservices CEO resigns
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Good to hear from you blokes at the coal face.
To keep it away from statistics and other superscillious issues:
How many hours a week do you blokes work?
Not interested in what senior management do or earn.
To keep it away from statistics and other superscillious issues:
How many hours a week do you blokes work?
Not interested in what senior management do or earn.
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How many hours a week do you blokes work?
If you believe the spin then we have sufficient numbers . The latest jargon is 'core' or 'mature'. Lots of 'mature' controllers that's for sure!
In aviation terms we have an ever decreasing number of 747 drivers with lots of newbies just learning to fly a C172. No matter how fast we train and how many corners we cut we are struggling to have sufficiently qualified drivers for the heavy machinery. No problemo. We just give the C172 a cruise rating on the 747. I mean nothing can go wrong when the 747 is in level flight at Fl350 can it? If something does trouble the newbie we have lots of baggage handlers around to offer their invaluable experience. NOT! No disrespect intended to the bag snatchers but you get what I mean. The experience levels are on a slippery slope downhill.
'There are a boat load in the sandpit who want to come home'
You sure about that? In many ways the sand ended up being greener. Things a plenty need to change in AsA or the controllers will just be right back in the mess they left.
You sure about that? In many ways the sand ended up being greener. Things a plenty need to change in AsA or the controllers will just be right back in the mess they left.
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Blackhand short answer, as much as you want. Long answer, depends. We're rostered 72(?) hours a fortnight, but that is averaged over the roster cycle, in my case six weeks (which is why I'm not sure if it's 72 or a bit more or less, I just blindly trust whoever writes the roster). Overtime is very variable, over time and location. The General Manager, sorry Executive General Manager is probably correct when he says company wide the average is one shift a month. Trouble is, some units are fully staffed and hardly do any, while others are short, even without sick leave.
Our roster usually has 20 people to cover a 22 person roster, roughly. Another 2 or 3 wil be on leave at any one time to allow everyone to aquit their annual leave. Then take two people offline to cross train on another sector in the group, another two to train them for a few days in the sim, someone else gets released to go to a tower that's even more desperate for staff, some maternity leave, someone gets the flu for a few days and the whole thing nearly collapses.
However, each days OT is usually filled the day before, but you can volunteer in advance. So if you rally want the money you could easily do 2 or 3 shifts a fortnight, say between 16 an 30 hours. Then probably once or twice a week you wil be asked to stay late or come in early, say another 4 to 8 hours a fortnight. Alternatively, you can ignore the phone on your days off, and have commitments before or after work, and do none. Most people are somewhere in the middle.
The there's the invisible shortages, gaps in the roster that an not filled, getting by with 5 people for a few hours instead of six etc. Ridiculously we sometimes have to call two people in on OT because they each hold half the sector ratings required, and no one else is available.
I think what gets most of us is no the amount of OT, but firstly, the number of phone calls. You can easily be called 3 or 4 times in one day to come to work. If it looks like airspace will be closed it is policy to call back everyone who has declined the shift, and pressure them by telling then if they do not come to work, airspace will be closed, i.e. what ever happens is now on them. (Our new harassment supremo has ruled then being rung three times to do the same OT shift is not harassment!)
Secondly, it's management's constant denial. My line manager showed me a spreadsheet that proved we wen't understaffed. When I asked why then were there blank lines on the roster, and why I was asked to to OT while on annual leave, he had no answer.
Our roster usually has 20 people to cover a 22 person roster, roughly. Another 2 or 3 wil be on leave at any one time to allow everyone to aquit their annual leave. Then take two people offline to cross train on another sector in the group, another two to train them for a few days in the sim, someone else gets released to go to a tower that's even more desperate for staff, some maternity leave, someone gets the flu for a few days and the whole thing nearly collapses.
However, each days OT is usually filled the day before, but you can volunteer in advance. So if you rally want the money you could easily do 2 or 3 shifts a fortnight, say between 16 an 30 hours. Then probably once or twice a week you wil be asked to stay late or come in early, say another 4 to 8 hours a fortnight. Alternatively, you can ignore the phone on your days off, and have commitments before or after work, and do none. Most people are somewhere in the middle.
The there's the invisible shortages, gaps in the roster that an not filled, getting by with 5 people for a few hours instead of six etc. Ridiculously we sometimes have to call two people in on OT because they each hold half the sector ratings required, and no one else is available.
I think what gets most of us is no the amount of OT, but firstly, the number of phone calls. You can easily be called 3 or 4 times in one day to come to work. If it looks like airspace will be closed it is policy to call back everyone who has declined the shift, and pressure them by telling then if they do not come to work, airspace will be closed, i.e. what ever happens is now on them. (Our new harassment supremo has ruled then being rung three times to do the same OT shift is not harassment!)
Secondly, it's management's constant denial. My line manager showed me a spreadsheet that proved we wen't understaffed. When I asked why then were there blank lines on the roster, and why I was asked to to OT while on annual leave, he had no answer.
Last edited by Nautilus Blue; 6th Jun 2012 at 09:34.
Come in on O/T from ARL..??
Did this not USED to attract a full ARL entitlement starting again from
'day 1' of ARL entitlement..??
Wot's the goss these days..??
Did this not USED to attract a full ARL entitlement starting again from
'day 1' of ARL entitlement..??
Wot's the goss these days..??
Did this not USED to attract a full ARL entitlement starting again from
'day 1' of ARL entitlement..??
'day 1' of ARL entitlement..??
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That's a fair picture painted by NB. Of course, don't forget that controllers are required to give a reason as to why they knock back overtime when called at home on their day off. On the upside, phone calls to attend overtime are reducing in some groups as it is becoming more popular to either not replace a vacant shift or at least only replace an 8 hr shift with 6hrs of overtime (as an example). Safety first once again as this means potentially (and often) longer stints at the console in often busy, complex environments which leads to higher fatigue, higher risk of errors, cumulative fatigue, stress, etc leading to higher rates of illness, sick days, more overtime required, etc .... and the cycle continues.
Regarding pax numbers as mentioned previously, in many cases it is a matter of bigger airframes resulting in higher numbers, but don't discount the significant increase in aircraft being processed and the complexity increase created, most notably with mining FIFO from major ports, i.e. Perth, Brisbane.
Regarding pax numbers as mentioned previously, in many cases it is a matter of bigger airframes resulting in higher numbers, but don't discount the significant increase in aircraft being processed and the complexity increase created, most notably with mining FIFO from major ports, i.e. Perth, Brisbane.
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Just when you think it cannot get worser...
"New appointments to the Airservices Board
Wednesday, 6 June 2012
We are pleased to inform staff that the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Anthony Albanese MP, has appointed four new Directors to the Airservices Board.
Samantha Betzien, Annette Kimmitt, Paul Lucas and Tony Mathews bring a range of new skills to our Board, with vast experience across aviation, legal, financial and infrastructure fields and start in these positions from today.blah blah blah....."
Yes punters.......the PAUL LUCAS referred to above is the VERY SAME Paul Lucas who "retired" from politics on 16 Sep 2011 and was the minister responsible who said "We let people down" in reference to the QLD health payroll rollout which led to thousands of QLD Health workers to be wrongly paid and was described as the "worst failure in public administration in QLD History"...
....but its all good now that he is on the "SS.Airservices" board huh?
Wednesday, 6 June 2012
We are pleased to inform staff that the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Anthony Albanese MP, has appointed four new Directors to the Airservices Board.
Samantha Betzien, Annette Kimmitt, Paul Lucas and Tony Mathews bring a range of new skills to our Board, with vast experience across aviation, legal, financial and infrastructure fields and start in these positions from today.blah blah blah....."
Yes punters.......the PAUL LUCAS referred to above is the VERY SAME Paul Lucas who "retired" from politics on 16 Sep 2011 and was the minister responsible who said "We let people down" in reference to the QLD health payroll rollout which led to thousands of QLD Health workers to be wrongly paid and was described as the "worst failure in public administration in QLD History"...
....but its all good now that he is on the "SS.Airservices" board huh?
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Lucas – Prince of Darkness ??
For those unfamiliar with British electrical systems, Lucas gear was powered by smoke; once the smoke got out – operation ceased.
Questions for the ATC 'ers :-
1) FPCF is ??.
2) TAAATS Eurocat Seamless Upgrade is ??.
I only ask because if this (they) were intended to provide efficiencies for the airlines, the public and improve safety, are they to be abandoned, if so why ?. Be interesting to project the expected cost impact on airline operations in terms of efficiency lost.
Probably also like to know the level of public money invested, in real terms, you know consultants, travel, conferences, reports, meetings etc. etc. Not to mention infrastructure, equipment, hardware, software, training, research etc. and the time expended to get to the abandon ship order to getting something equivalent in place.
Taxi Minister?.
Questions for the ATC 'ers :-
1) FPCF is ??.
2) TAAATS Eurocat Seamless Upgrade is ??.
AsA will not be upgrading the Eurocat software for 2012 Flight Plan.
What was abandoned: seamless upgrades or FPCP ?.
FPCF cannot be used as envisioned without seamless upgrades. Therefore no universal free flight. ?.
What was abandoned: seamless upgrades or FPCP ?.
FPCF cannot be used as envisioned without seamless upgrades. Therefore no universal free flight. ?.
Probably also like to know the level of public money invested, in real terms, you know consultants, travel, conferences, reports, meetings etc. etc. Not to mention infrastructure, equipment, hardware, software, training, research etc. and the time expended to get to the abandon ship order to getting something equivalent in place.
Taxi Minister?.
Last edited by Kharon; 7th Jun 2012 at 20:59. Reason: Forgot the Dog, Donkey and Porker transport. Bad K.
Kharon, however much money it is.....it clearly isn't/wasn't enough. ATC group have run out of money in the budget until the new FY. If you have look around the mighty AWB you will be surprised by the amount of people who's job is in Canberra but they don't live here. They commute in and out and get put up in Canberra all on the company purse.
But yes, AsA appears to bleed a lot of money. Meanwhile, the list of failed projects and downgrading of the upgrading continues.
But yes, AsA appears to bleed a lot of money. Meanwhile, the list of failed projects and downgrading of the upgrading continues.
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OK I am interested! Jack & other ATCers, if you have six silver bullets to fix your issues with AsA what are they?
...and I mean no disrespect but I say "your" issues because from the other side of the mike it appears you guys do an outstanding job, however if things are this bad it could soon enough be "our" issues.
And what about the RAAF integration. What will that mean to us flyers?
...and I mean no disrespect but I say "your" issues because from the other side of the mike it appears you guys do an outstanding job, however if things are this bad it could soon enough be "our" issues.
And what about the RAAF integration. What will that mean to us flyers?
Probably also like to know the level of public money invested, in real terms, you know consultants, travel, conferences, reports, meetings etc. etc. Not to mention infrastructure, equipment, hardware, software, training, research etc. and the time expended to get to the abandon ship order to getting something equivalent in place.
ASA is NOT a Government Department, funded by taxes.
HOWEVER, it does contribute about $100m p.a. TO the public purse. Which, in effect, is the Airlines' "donation" to the Australian public. Aren't they nice?
Last edited by peuce; 8th Jun 2012 at 00:21.
FPCF = Flight Plan Conflict Function. Software that can look ahead and identify conflicts, mainly for use in a procedural control environment. Handling multiple random tracks (free flight) is difficult because it's very hard and laborious to prove separation. Imagine a couple of tracks that converge and diverge multiple times.
Seamless upgrades = being able to upgrade the TAAATS software without putting the whole system in a state of degraded functionality for a few hours as happens now.
Seamless upgrades = being able to upgrade the TAAATS software without putting the whole system in a state of degraded functionality for a few hours as happens now.
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Hiwaytohell I'll have a go.
1. Analyse the capital programe and do a proper cost/benefit of all projects (in conjunction with industry delegates after all they are paying). Hold managers accountable for the delivery and benefits of the project (properly accountable. How many have got bonuses in the past when they have presided over failed projects?).
2. Top down review of all support positions in the organisation to determine what value they add.
3. Dump or re-educate senior level management. The time for bullying and childish behaviour is gone. The place is run like a kinder, putting people on blacklists etc when you need their skills is just stupid.
4. Recognise that ATCs love their job but hate the company. Dont make them salute the company flag. Use their love of the job to engage them.
5. Bring head office to either Brisbane or Melbourne. The need to be close to politicians is well gone. This would take a lot off a very very large travel budget.
6. Get some ATC experience into management and listen. How many managers have worked approach? How many have been sidelined when they have spoken up about safety issues or stupid projects?
7. Stop trying to preach to the world. Instead go out and see what everyone else is doing better and this might include spending more time with their RAAF colleagues.
Sorry got to 7 but I could go on. Its not hard (similar to fixing QF), simply engage the staff and listen because they work the crap day in day out - not some suit wearer in Canberra.
1. Analyse the capital programe and do a proper cost/benefit of all projects (in conjunction with industry delegates after all they are paying). Hold managers accountable for the delivery and benefits of the project (properly accountable. How many have got bonuses in the past when they have presided over failed projects?).
2. Top down review of all support positions in the organisation to determine what value they add.
3. Dump or re-educate senior level management. The time for bullying and childish behaviour is gone. The place is run like a kinder, putting people on blacklists etc when you need their skills is just stupid.
4. Recognise that ATCs love their job but hate the company. Dont make them salute the company flag. Use their love of the job to engage them.
5. Bring head office to either Brisbane or Melbourne. The need to be close to politicians is well gone. This would take a lot off a very very large travel budget.
6. Get some ATC experience into management and listen. How many managers have worked approach? How many have been sidelined when they have spoken up about safety issues or stupid projects?
7. Stop trying to preach to the world. Instead go out and see what everyone else is doing better and this might include spending more time with their RAAF colleagues.
Sorry got to 7 but I could go on. Its not hard (similar to fixing QF), simply engage the staff and listen because they work the crap day in day out - not some suit wearer in Canberra.
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Thanks Pavement. It brightened my day to get a logical, positive, constructive response. I guess you won't make management 
While you are on a roll what about the RAAF integration? I only know what I read in the papers these days, but many years ago this idea was suggested but quickly slapped down?
While you are on a roll what about the RAAF integration? I only know what I read in the papers these days, but many years ago this idea was suggested but quickly slapped down?
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Not really sure as Im not privy to that sort of stuff. I do know the RAAF werent overly happy with the Perth integration and almost pulled out. I think it is dead at the moment with the belief that a new joint ATC system (circa 2020 now I think) will deliver the same benefits without any 'integration'.
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I do know the RAAF werent overly happy with the Perth integration and almost pulled out.
As far as I was aware, using a common system was the "integration". Buying two different incompatible ATC systems was stupid, only the crown prince of the kingdom of stupid would do it a second time.