Swiss Cheese ASA Style
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The important thing is though that college has been removed from HR, and the head of training now reports direct to the CEO. That has to be an improvement.
Could be better, could also be worse. I don't know of any ATC that won't fly as a passenger, yet. Personally I'd not fly at night, and if it weren't for TCAS I'd be worried. Most of the small percentage of the public who care would have trouble seeing past the spin, and there is only one way to prove there is a problem. Almost certainly it will get worse before it can get better.
are our skies as safe as we suppose them to be ?.
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My turn is it ?. OK
NB. - I don't know of any ATC that won't fly as a passenger, yet. Personally I'd not fly at night, and if it weren't for TCAS I'd be worried. Most of the small percentage of the public who care would have trouble seeing past the spin, and there is only one way to prove there is a problem.
Is it getting really, really messy out there ?. They talk about holes in the sacred cheese. Lets look at the ones we have lined up right now:-
Is CASA moribund; only capable of generating pointless, half baked administrative show cases, an endless amount of smoke, mirrors and a defence which reckons they have no responsibility ?. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
Is ATSB emasculated ?; does it appear as the starved child of a loveless union. Bullied and beaten into cringing submission until the will to resist; let alone publish anything vaguely resembling a honest appraisal of the most probable and ranked contributing causes related to the incidents ?. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
Is the ASA apparently suffering a combination of Casaititis and Atsbaphobia ?. At least the front line troops may hold their heads up. They have to; highly visible, easily located and providing an endless supply of ready to hand cannon fodder for the speedy abrogation of all responsibility. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
If it was all found to be true, there is at least a Ministerial head in a metaphoric bucket available here. We only need an axeman to do the job; even only if for so small a reward as ensuring the travelling public may travel at night and have a fair chance of getting off at the other end before the pubs close.
Steam off.
Mutter, curse, mumble, curse, Click.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Take a ticket and stand in line, it's my turn..
Is CASA moribund; only capable of generating pointless, half baked administrative show cases, an endless amount of smoke, mirrors and a defence which reckons they have no responsibility?.The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
That is their quest in life. To create spin and deflection and run from accountabilty. They cannot oversight or manage their own internal issues let alone negate the requirements of the aviation industry in all it's complexities. As an example talk to the new 'CMT participants' and you will learn that it has already disintegrated at the seams. Inspectors not allowed to travel to conduct work 'live in the field' due to 'budget restraints'. They are being advised to regulate via a keyboard! As if that works? Heaps of cost cutting taking place with these funds used to fund the Skulls golden dream of a training center of excellence in Brisbane! I am sure some of the re-budgeted lucre is also paying for senior heirachy to indulge in some additional international hoohah.
Is ATSB emasculated ?; does it appear as the starved child of a loveless union. Bullied and beaten into cringing submission until the will to resist; let alone publish anything vaguely resembling a honest appraisal of the most probable and ranked contributing causes related to the incidents?. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
And yes the ATSB has been raped by bureaucrats who have recategorized incident/accident rankings, added some bureacratic garnish such as 8.7 investigations completed per 1000 hours investigative time, or some similar styled number fluffing techniques. The heart and soul of the ATSB has always been it's non politically stymied Investigators and the quality work they attempt to undertake on a shoe string frontline budget while being dominated by the Ministers whips.
Is the ASA apparently suffering a combination of Casaititis and Atsbaphobia ?. At least the front line troops may hold their heads up. They have to; highly visible, easily located and providing an endless supply of ready to hand cannon fodder for the speedy abrogation of all responsibility. The whole sad, sorry edifice seems dedicated only to baffling Senators, Coroners, the Judiciary and any one else who crosses their twisted path.
Sadly ASA have been infected by a host parasite called Bureaucrat****is, a disease that is flourishing within Australia and spreading at an alarming rate within aviation and infastructure. The disease, which has been prevalent for eons within all walks of governemnt at all levels has become more recently discernable as the outbreak spreads uncontained. Symtoms often include the existence of lies and deception, spin, mathematical perentages banded about, overseas trips for cure finding missions, a distortion of the tongue in which words such as robust, underpinning, overarching and 'worlds best practise' are often spewed forth violently and reptitively.
We only need an axeman to do the job; even only if for so small a reward as ensuring the travelling public may travel at night and have a fair chance of getting off at the other end before the pubs close.
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Cor, stone the bloody chooks,
To quote the Bard, (Toofey d' Brudge) – “if he could find a chook, in a chook house with a candle”; it would be a bloody site better than the purblind, home spun pony pooh we are 'hearing' about now. 
Sandilands (Plane talking) is definably on to "it'; the tent children appears to be on fire.
GD – No apology – Tick tock indeed; and Noco (Cahones) watches as home burns. The silly sod doesn't even realise he is responsible even if he's retired to a high class chook house in a noise sensitive suburb, with hot and cold running kerosene showers.
Stone the bloody chooks. How ?, (someone tell me) in all the Hells would the country's reputation survive a mid air, now this sorry saga is all slowly becoming public knowledge.
A lot of good “standard” mandatory radio calls will do then.
Sandilands (Plane talking) is definably on to "it'; the tent children appears to be on fire.
GD – No apology – Tick tock indeed; and Noco (Cahones) watches as home burns. The silly sod doesn't even realise he is responsible even if he's retired to a high class chook house in a noise sensitive suburb, with hot and cold running kerosene showers.
Stone the bloody chooks. How ?, (someone tell me) in all the Hells would the country's reputation survive a mid air, now this sorry saga is all slowly becoming public knowledge.
A lot of good “standard” mandatory radio calls will do then.
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As an example talk to the new 'CMT participants' and you will learn that it has already disintegrated at the seams. Inspectors not allowed to travel to conduct work 'live in the field' due to 'budget restraints'. They are being advised to regulate via a keyboard! As if that works? Heaps of cost cutting taking place with these funds used to fund the Skulls golden dream of a training center of excellence in Brisbane!
Auditor General raises red flag over Transport Canada’s oversight of aviation safety
While Transport Canada requires yearly inspections, 70 per cent of aviation companies in Canada were not inspected in 2010-2011, Auditor General Michael Ferguson
Canada News: Auditor General raises red flag over Transport Canada
Is it just me or are these 'breakdown of separation' events becoming so commonplace that no one even bats an eyelash, I guess you could say that all the 'heavy tin' has TCAS these days....."ho hum"! or "tick tock"!
Ben's latest ATC/ATSB grab: Jet airliners played tag near Melbourne Airport says ATSB | Plane Talking
Ben's latest ATC/ATSB grab: Jet airliners played tag near Melbourne Airport says ATSB | Plane Talking
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Ministerial interest ??.
Snowy heard a whisper today, there are some positive steps, in the 'right' direction being taken, driven from quite high up. Any truth in it ??.
Curious and without fanfare even more so. Would be nice to say thanks, just for once.
Curious and without fanfare even more so. Would be nice to say thanks, just for once.
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In the good old days a jet didn't climb out under 300kts. It was published in our books. Then the accountants told the company to tell the pilots to climb at 'econ' speed or 'cost index' speed (whatever any of that means?). Nobody told the ATC's, got a few 'surprises' when it first started happening. Asking the pilot in front to climb not below 300kts fixed it.
Any inquiry conducted into these incidents wont give the real reason why these BOS's are happening with monotonous regularity. I can tell you some of the reasons, it started you know where, when someone who trained bank tellers believed that 'anybody' could do ATC. By the same premise, that means that 'anybody' could be a doctor.........right? Anybody could fly an FA18 mission into Iraq............right? Anybody could be a trapeze artist?
Any inquiry conducted into these incidents wont give the real reason why these BOS's are happening with monotonous regularity. I can tell you some of the reasons, it started you know where, when someone who trained bank tellers believed that 'anybody' could do ATC. By the same premise, that means that 'anybody' could be a doctor.........right? Anybody could fly an FA18 mission into Iraq............right? Anybody could be a trapeze artist?
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Tip of the iceberg
Any one catch the Melbourne - "Herald Sun" piece today.
Who knows - it's interesting though, when the CASA super spin - voice is onto it before the ink was dry. Hear it's been on Sky News. Still a rumor network ain't it ??.
Sorry - no link - Sky News crib. Poor old Journo's, someone should tell them how things are.
Who knows - it's interesting though, when the CASA super spin - voice is onto it before the ink was dry. Hear it's been on Sky News. Still a rumor network ain't it ??.
Melbourne's crowded airspace dangers
Updated: 09:31, Monday May 7, 2012
Melbourne's crowded airspace is leading to dozens of close calls every week, according to a dossier compiled by the Herald Sun.
The paper said planes too close together, unsafe landings and mechanical malfunctions are putting thousands of lives at risk in the skies over Victoria.
The catalogue of chaos includes smoke or fumes in the cabin, pilots tracking for the wrong runway or airport, and birds flying into planes.
Other issues include dangerous goods on board such as explosives and carbon dioxide cylinders, communications system crashes, incorrect data entry or settings on flight computers, and call-sign mix-ups.
Many of the incidents go unchecked because safety authorities don't have the staff or resources.
'Experts have warned the crowded airspace above Melbourne, combined with fatigued pilots and air traffic controllers, could prove fatal on a mass scale,' the newspaper said.
Australian and International Pilots Association vice-president Richard Woodward was worried that financial conditions were driving all airlines to cut costs, including safety expenses.
'When things get a bit pear-shaped, they don't have the skills to recover, Mr Woodward said.
But Civil Aviation Safety Authority spokesman Peter Gibson said it was wrong to link the number of reported incidents with safety issues.
'Aviation is an extremely safe way to travel,' he said.
Updated: 09:31, Monday May 7, 2012
Melbourne's crowded airspace is leading to dozens of close calls every week, according to a dossier compiled by the Herald Sun.
The paper said planes too close together, unsafe landings and mechanical malfunctions are putting thousands of lives at risk in the skies over Victoria.
The catalogue of chaos includes smoke or fumes in the cabin, pilots tracking for the wrong runway or airport, and birds flying into planes.
Other issues include dangerous goods on board such as explosives and carbon dioxide cylinders, communications system crashes, incorrect data entry or settings on flight computers, and call-sign mix-ups.
Many of the incidents go unchecked because safety authorities don't have the staff or resources.
'Experts have warned the crowded airspace above Melbourne, combined with fatigued pilots and air traffic controllers, could prove fatal on a mass scale,' the newspaper said.
Australian and International Pilots Association vice-president Richard Woodward was worried that financial conditions were driving all airlines to cut costs, including safety expenses.
'When things get a bit pear-shaped, they don't have the skills to recover, Mr Woodward said.
But Civil Aviation Safety Authority spokesman Peter Gibson said it was wrong to link the number of reported incidents with safety issues.
'Aviation is an extremely safe way to travel,' he said.
Last edited by Kharon; 7th May 2012 at 09:05. Reason: Sky news - cribbed
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When the regulatory abilities of Airservices were taken from them and given to the CAA, the point of contact is probably Peter Gibson who will talk rubbish to you and blame AsA.
Just another of Mrs Palmers graduates.
It may be of interest to see how a certain representative body behaved in the YMML airspace steps, mostly done to discredit Dick Smith and a highly experienced Heavy RPT Captain, by a Private VFR Day pilot with no practicable experience, advocating non standard step slope.
No wonder they have meetings in telephone box's.
Tick Tok Peter!
Just another of Mrs Palmers graduates.
It may be of interest to see how a certain representative body behaved in the YMML airspace steps, mostly done to discredit Dick Smith and a highly experienced Heavy RPT Captain, by a Private VFR Day pilot with no practicable experience, advocating non standard step slope.
No wonder they have meetings in telephone box's.
Tick Tok Peter!
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 7th May 2012 at 23:29.
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I heard there's a new charity raffle going around CASA.
First prize is a week, all expenses paid, at the new BN training school!!
Second prize is two weeks, all expenses paid at the BN...... Oh
First prize is a week, all expenses paid, at the new BN training school!!
Second prize is two weeks, all expenses paid at the BN...... Oh
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You'd be amazed at the lengths they go to to avoid hiding the lack of staff numbers. In the old days, an ATC group (eg 3 or 4 sectors) would have a published minimum staffing level. That number would vary throughout the day depending on traffic levels.
As an example, a 4 sector group might have a requirement to have at least 7 controllers rostered and a minimum of 5 working allowing for sickies. If these minimums weren't met, an ESIR was put in and explanations would be required. It was a safety event! Notams were also issued.
Over time, these minimums were reduced and reduced until the paperwork trail and the embarrassment became so regular that the documents were scrapped and there is no longer any trail of when these situations take place. The minimum staff requirement for the 4 sectors these days is simply 1. As long as one body is sitting in a chair and the sectors can all be combined up and there is no declared TRA/TIBA, then minimums have been met.
Traffic metering? NOC help?? pfft! A break should be provided every two hours and is supposed to be mandated at least every 3 hours but often this just doesn't happen. Need a pee? Wait until a supervisor deems he isn't **** scared enough to sit and watch the screen for 3 minutes while you duck out for a quickie and leave nobody qualified to watch YOUR airspace. Better be careful tho, that supervisor is not responsible for what happens while you are gone.
Oh, the next shift has just gone down as well. Would you mind extending your 0600 shift through to 3pm? You can still legally make it back for the night shift tonight at 2300! Or better still, extend to 1600 and we'll come up with something in the meantime and get you back at midnight instead.
As an example, a 4 sector group might have a requirement to have at least 7 controllers rostered and a minimum of 5 working allowing for sickies. If these minimums weren't met, an ESIR was put in and explanations would be required. It was a safety event! Notams were also issued.
Over time, these minimums were reduced and reduced until the paperwork trail and the embarrassment became so regular that the documents were scrapped and there is no longer any trail of when these situations take place. The minimum staff requirement for the 4 sectors these days is simply 1. As long as one body is sitting in a chair and the sectors can all be combined up and there is no declared TRA/TIBA, then minimums have been met.
Traffic metering? NOC help?? pfft! A break should be provided every two hours and is supposed to be mandated at least every 3 hours but often this just doesn't happen. Need a pee? Wait until a supervisor deems he isn't **** scared enough to sit and watch the screen for 3 minutes while you duck out for a quickie and leave nobody qualified to watch YOUR airspace. Better be careful tho, that supervisor is not responsible for what happens while you are gone.
Oh, the next shift has just gone down as well. Would you mind extending your 0600 shift through to 3pm? You can still legally make it back for the night shift tonight at 2300! Or better still, extend to 1600 and we'll come up with something in the meantime and get you back at midnight instead.
Roger Standby good post! From the heart and, dare I say, from a frontline tin pusher who knows and has experienced the decline.
Which makes it all pretty scary stuff when your out there ploughing holes in the sky and keeping the blue bit on top....while one of you poor buggers are potentially distracted by having to hang on because of a **** scared supervisor waiting for a break in the traffic....sheesh...tick bloody tock!
Which makes it all pretty scary stuff when your out there ploughing holes in the sky and keeping the blue bit on top....while one of you poor buggers are potentially distracted by having to hang on because of a **** scared supervisor waiting for a break in the traffic....sheesh...tick bloody tock!
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Finally; at last.
An honest unit. I know this is a 'pilots' forum, but all day, every day, (Hiundai) we, (the pilots) depend so very much on what this group of unsung folk do, it's scary. Like dependable engines, when the doo doo (rare occasion) hits the windmill, there is the calm quiet voice of hope; fully trained and qualified, fit to work, not fatigued with back up.
I, like many depend on the fact (hope now) that they are there when most needed, it's an almost symbiotic relationship. Rarely does an ATC (stuff the spin) or FSO misread the unspoken prayer for service. Brothers in arms ?, you could say so without too much fear of contradiction.
Thank you Mr. Livingston, Selah.
That the ATC guy is whacked out, fatigued, buggered about or not able to go for a wee wee is unacceptable. If ever there was a need to ensure service it is now; perhaps the Naval check "3 greens" should be reinstated, for civil use. At least half the silly buggers would the check Gear Down somewhere between 1500 and 384 feet; but, who would be responsible for that?,
As Grip Pipe would say, yes Minister – it's all bollocks (at 300 knots a piece, (that's 600 knots closing which is 10 nautical miles per minute).
CASA fuss over pilots 1 minute on duty, but ATC (their remit), oh well, the lads and laddetes will cope.` Probably through sheer professionalism , but for how long?.
Steam off.
I, like many depend on the fact (hope now) that they are there when most needed, it's an almost symbiotic relationship. Rarely does an ATC (stuff the spin) or FSO misread the unspoken prayer for service. Brothers in arms ?, you could say so without too much fear of contradiction.
Thank you Mr. Livingston, Selah.
That the ATC guy is whacked out, fatigued, buggered about or not able to go for a wee wee is unacceptable. If ever there was a need to ensure service it is now; perhaps the Naval check "3 greens" should be reinstated, for civil use. At least half the silly buggers would the check Gear Down somewhere between 1500 and 384 feet; but, who would be responsible for that?,
As Grip Pipe would say, yes Minister – it's all bollocks (at 300 knots a piece, (that's 600 knots closing which is 10 nautical miles per minute).
CASA fuss over pilots 1 minute on duty, but ATC (their remit), oh well, the lads and laddetes will cope.` Probably through sheer professionalism , but for how long?.
Steam off.
Last edited by Kharon; 10th May 2012 at 10:26. Reason: Felt good - done it.
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Roger Standby, 10/10 mate. Sadly what you are saying does not come as a shock.
How about Russell's salry be trimmed back to 250k, bonuses removed and maybe that money be converted into frontline manpower? Just a thought to begin with.
Senators, the public, and anyone with an ear - Are you hearing what we can hear? Yes you can did you say? You hear the 'tick tock' of the clock? Good.
The above example is amazing, incompetent Supervisors and a Controller that cant even take a piss due to staff shortage. Excessive fatigue and a host of other 'holes' are continuing to line up..Bloody disgrace.
How about Russell's salry be trimmed back to 250k, bonuses removed and maybe that money be converted into frontline manpower? Just a thought to begin with.
Senators, the public, and anyone with an ear - Are you hearing what we can hear? Yes you can did you say? You hear the 'tick tock' of the clock? Good.
The above example is amazing, incompetent Supervisors and a Controller that cant even take a piss due to staff shortage. Excessive fatigue and a host of other 'holes' are continuing to line up..Bloody disgrace.
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It all started when the CAA was split and ASA was formed as a Government Business Enterprise, therefore no longer a 'public service' but existing to turn a profit and fork out a dividend into the big fat general revenue bucket each year. With status as a GBE, and more importantly transition to TAAATS, came wonderful new management principles...'Business Units', cost cutting, executive bonus's, empire building...and the bureaucracy increased exponentially.
In the mean time the training organisation was gutted (resulting in an Australia Day commendation from the CEO to the guttee...), the training of new controllers essentially stopped, rated controllers continued to leave, either retiring or leaving for the overseas job market ironically opened to them by ASA, and consoles became harder to man. Rather than admit that, while looking sensational on that financial years bottom line, it may have been an error long term in culling the training annex, faith was placed in a magnificent new way of managing less staff more efficiently...SDE. The fact that SDE is in fact less efficient than the previous group/team systems isn't either recognised or accepted at executive level, for obvious reasons, but it's true. And now ATC's have to risk their licence and/or the traveling public's safety to have a wee.
^^^ This is affordable safety.
In the mean time the training organisation was gutted (resulting in an Australia Day commendation from the CEO to the guttee...), the training of new controllers essentially stopped, rated controllers continued to leave, either retiring or leaving for the overseas job market ironically opened to them by ASA, and consoles became harder to man. Rather than admit that, while looking sensational on that financial years bottom line, it may have been an error long term in culling the training annex, faith was placed in a magnificent new way of managing less staff more efficiently...SDE. The fact that SDE is in fact less efficient than the previous group/team systems isn't either recognised or accepted at executive level, for obvious reasons, but it's true. And now ATC's have to risk their licence and/or the traveling public's safety to have a wee.
^^^ This is affordable safety.
Last edited by Hempy; 13th May 2012 at 09:47. Reason: spelin