QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?
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You would think under this new structure that domestic could justify the 'cost of capital' of 787s now. I wonder where they can get 787s from.
We start hearing rumours about QF needing 787's now to compete with the new threat with VA domestically
It doesn't want them operated on the LH award
Suddenly there's a whole new business unit, QF Domestic
Therefore 787's being (initially) primarily domestic a/c, they are operated under the SH award.
Hey presto, arbitration no longer required
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Therefore 787's being (initially) primarily domestic a/c, they are operated under the SH award
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And therein lies the problem. Short haul flying flown by Long haul pilots on the long haul award. If we dont get smart no one will be flying the 78. The 787 maybe a replacement type for the 767 but Q pilots are surplus as per clause 15 of the integration award. What do you think the company would prefer? Long or short or perhaps shlong!
Last edited by schlong hauler; 22nd May 2012 at 08:06.
In my opinion the 767 should already be on the SH award. Let's be realistic here. Sorry to the 76 drivers but if you're flying short haul, you should be covered by that award.
I'm also expecting the list to be split. Redundancies from long haul, last on first off, but the junior short haul guys will be left alone. Not possible you say? Qantas planes, Qantas tail, the spirit of Australia on the side, Qantas call signs, Qantas uniforms, flown by kiwis. Who thought that would be possible.....
Incoming......
I'm also expecting the list to be split. Redundancies from long haul, last on first off, but the junior short haul guys will be left alone. Not possible you say? Qantas planes, Qantas tail, the spirit of Australia on the side, Qantas call signs, Qantas uniforms, flown by kiwis. Who thought that would be possible.....
Incoming......
but the junior short haul guys will be left alone.
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As I said in an earlier post, I believe the 787 will be flown under the SHA both internationally and domestically.
Rumour has it that BB was told this and told no 787s for JQ, apparently he had a big dummy spit and hence the present result. True/not true? Don't care...
I also mentioned the intergration agreement in a previous post but by now splitting the company, seniority lists and isolating the awards any past agreements will become null and void as opportunities to move to other "businesses" will become very limited. Arbitration in June and presenting today's revised game plan will guarantee this outcome.
My prediction, 787s, A330s and 737s (plus remaining 767) to be short haul and under the SHA eventually, and the 74s and 380s remain long haul and unfortunately left to wither and die on the vine, hence the eventual tie up with another carrier like Emirates.
I think redundancies are unfortunately just around the corner as well, but once the new restructure is in place. As mentioned already, they will be from the bottom of the LH list, but the good gesture will come on the 12th hour by offering the opportunity to transfer to the SHA (not that there is anything wrong with the SHA) and flying SH 787s and keep a job in the group.
Never a f$&king dull moment around this place.
Rumour has it that BB was told this and told no 787s for JQ, apparently he had a big dummy spit and hence the present result. True/not true? Don't care...
I also mentioned the intergration agreement in a previous post but by now splitting the company, seniority lists and isolating the awards any past agreements will become null and void as opportunities to move to other "businesses" will become very limited. Arbitration in June and presenting today's revised game plan will guarantee this outcome.
My prediction, 787s, A330s and 737s (plus remaining 767) to be short haul and under the SHA eventually, and the 74s and 380s remain long haul and unfortunately left to wither and die on the vine, hence the eventual tie up with another carrier like Emirates.
I think redundancies are unfortunately just around the corner as well, but once the new restructure is in place. As mentioned already, they will be from the bottom of the LH list, but the good gesture will come on the 12th hour by offering the opportunity to transfer to the SHA (not that there is anything wrong with the SHA) and flying SH 787s and keep a job in the group.
Never a f$&king dull moment around this place.
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This is a furphy. Nobody has been employed either long haul or short haul specifAic since the companies were integrated. Sure there are more junior pilots (seniority-wise) on the 737, but all new entry pilots into Qantas since integration have been employed under a common agreement that has been running for over twenty years
The integration agreement somewhat covers redundancy and effects about 800 pilots. It does not cover downgrading of longhaul pilots.
This means if QF int winds down, a junior 737 Capt can not be bumped back to F/O by a more senior longhaul Capt.
But, if it cam down to the last 500 or so Q pilots facing redundancy, then the integration agreement says a new hire (junior 737 Capt/FO) must be made redundant first.
The integration agreement doesn't cover de-integration. How it works in a split of the Company is unknown?
Contrary to this mornings media speculation the split is simply a reporting split, word is this is a real split like JQ/QF where they are totally independent (sort of)!
This means if QF int winds down, a junior 737 Capt can not be bumped back to F/O by a more senior longhaul Capt.
But, if it cam down to the last 500 or so Q pilots facing redundancy, then the integration agreement says a new hire (junior 737 Capt/FO) must be made redundant first.
The integration agreement doesn't cover de-integration. How it works in a split of the Company is unknown?
Contrary to this mornings media speculation the split is simply a reporting split, word is this is a real split like JQ/QF where they are totally independent (sort of)!
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Originally Posted by Short Circuit
So back to who will pay for maintenance on the 767 & 330, both fly Int & Dom.
I guess that in (at least) the short-term Qantas International will pay Qantas Domestic for maintenance services.
That'll cost them a pretty penny.....Oh wait, more losses (on paper) for the International side of the business
!ST
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......and if this does indeed turn out to be a 'real' split and not just
one for reporting purposes, does that mean that there will be promotion
(what little there might be) on type ? as in 380, I doubt it.
one for reporting purposes, does that mean that there will be promotion
(what little there might be) on type ? as in 380, I doubt it.
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incompetent rule the world
Mr Hickey began his career with Arthur Andersen as a business consultant working in Sydney, Melbourne and London.Mr Hickey is currently a director of Air Pacific Limited, flag carrier of Fiji. Arthur Andersen was a notorious accounting fraud firm closed down by USA government.
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how we can turn around Qantas
I have been with Qantas for more than 25 years as a long haul steward, there are many more decent hard working people who have been with Qantas more than 30 years. Now we are at a critical juncture, incompetent people from outside Qantas have taken over the control of this great Airline where we build our lives. Now it's time to come up a way to save ourselves, let's start a discussion how to turn around Qantas, please join me, especially all those long served Qantas employees (world best pilots, stewards, air caters etc), please share your wisdom of experiences.
I would like to start the following two historical facts:
1. Mr James Strong,our CEO between 1994-2000, took the job of merging TN and QF and floated the Qantas on the market. During his tenure, Qantas expanded its network (China, SFO, South America), Qantas did not employe one overseas pilot, one overseas cabin crew, one overseas flight engineer during his 6 years tenure and Qantas made real profit as QF paid dividend every year during his tenure.
2. Using the labor cost in China as a benchmark, the wage cost of pilots and cabin crew in 1994 was probably 10 times lower than the wage cost of today in China, so economically, does it make more sense to outsourcing all those jobs in 1994 instead of outsourcing them today?
I would like to start the following two historical facts:
1. Mr James Strong,our CEO between 1994-2000, took the job of merging TN and QF and floated the Qantas on the market. During his tenure, Qantas expanded its network (China, SFO, South America), Qantas did not employe one overseas pilot, one overseas cabin crew, one overseas flight engineer during his 6 years tenure and Qantas made real profit as QF paid dividend every year during his tenure.
2. Using the labor cost in China as a benchmark, the wage cost of pilots and cabin crew in 1994 was probably 10 times lower than the wage cost of today in China, so economically, does it make more sense to outsourcing all those jobs in 1994 instead of outsourcing them today?
Last edited by timer88; 23rd May 2012 at 13:19.
incompetent rule the world
He did run the most profitable segment of QF, building the biggest loyalty scheme in Australia forming alliances as a leader not a follower. Whether that profit was significantly by favourable cost/revenue accounting - who cares?
If he does the same for QF Int then it can only be good news and finally give QF Int a future which it currently doesn't have. Appears to me to be a guy with a lot of focus on successful results, not spin. Never know, he might even re-negotiate the QF owned JQ A330 leases. At least he's earned a chance?
Compared to the incumbent wet sponge who has allowed the decimation of QF Int and has now finally awoken from a coma after being smacked in the head by the loss of significant and exponentially growing corporate domestic business to Virgin (even JB can't believe it)? The one now being forced to play a profit busting game of catch-up to regain trust, reputation and market share, most arrogantly snubbed as a given?
Ummmm, not hard to see who has potential to make the most of a business, any business!
Last edited by The The; 23rd May 2012 at 13:46.
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Timer88,
In no way am I trying to slam your profession, and you will not like what I have to say....and here comes the "but".
How do QF compete with wages of stewards in Australia to that of Asia? In 2006 my ex, a long haul Y class hostie, annual pay was $88K. She'd been at QF for 15yrs. You do the math. Introduce QCCA.
Pilots have a very similar pay however QF pilots seem to need extra sleep and extra pilots on sectors that competitors don't. Weather this is wrong or wrong is another debate, this is how a bean counter sees it.
Engineers have a similar story. Some paid way too much, others payed to little. Stacked on top is all the highly unionised overpaid low skilled labour QF has to use and the end result is higher cost.
How do you increase the profit margin to an acceptable result if you cannot raise the ticket price? After all, QF is a business which needs to make money.
In no way am I trying to slam your profession, and you will not like what I have to say....and here comes the "but".
How do QF compete with wages of stewards in Australia to that of Asia? In 2006 my ex, a long haul Y class hostie, annual pay was $88K. She'd been at QF for 15yrs. You do the math. Introduce QCCA.
Pilots have a very similar pay however QF pilots seem to need extra sleep and extra pilots on sectors that competitors don't. Weather this is wrong or wrong is another debate, this is how a bean counter sees it.
Engineers have a similar story. Some paid way too much, others payed to little. Stacked on top is all the highly unionised overpaid low skilled labour QF has to use and the end result is higher cost.
How do you increase the profit margin to an acceptable result if you cannot raise the ticket price? After all, QF is a business which needs to make money.