Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

REX Resignations - pt 2

Old 12th Nov 2011, 13:54
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 306
Just dropping in here from a 'galaxy far, far away'. Here's something you might find useful I learned about 15 years ago while doing about 10 years straight on Reserve. Yeah, **it happens, even in the Majors.
If 'outside contact hours' calls are a bother to you guys, hear this. All landline phones can be configured to have TWO phone numbers ringing in to the same home phone/s. One number rings the normal way, 'two rings, two rings' the other number rings your phones in a distinctive way, 'three rings - three rings etc.'
So you set this up with Telstra, costs about $5 per month for the second number, then you leave all your friends on the 'two rings' number and you give scheduling [only] your new three rings number.
The phone rings: 'ring,ring,ring - ring,ring,ring. You know who it is straight away. Hmmm, you think. Am I obliged to answer it? Do I want to answer it? You decide! When this happens in our house, even today, we all laugh and my daughter [now 15 and has had this happen all her life, come to think of it] rolls her eyes and says 'Dad, it's Them, are you answering'?
My employer is smart enough to have an unlisted number and does not show up on caller ID. Maybe yours does still show up on ID? I don't know.
[Don't ever give your mobile number to your employer].
Instant difference to Quality of Life.
Captain Gidday is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2011, 14:00
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: vic
Posts: 24
Stiff under carriage

I have seen one of these rosters with my own eyes (it was not my personal roster) you can believe it or not it's up to you! I dont really care. My own roster this period is running a very high reserve ratio considering no services have been cut, & never before have I seen so many reserve blocks on my roster. How do you say so confidently that "This is false! And not true" can you provide evidence to the contrary? The rexpc/afap may not have been informed I dont know but this was bought to the attention of the FOM what happened from there I do not know. The numbers are only talk around the place guess we will have to watch this space to see if it comes true. I certainly hope not. Maybe the rexpc/afap could have a look at the rosters for the past 3 months & ask the question about some of them. Surely the afap would only become involved if the people were members so maybe that could be a reason they have not been all over it! I have in no way said it is happening to everyone. How do you know that "No one has spoken of the fact" I guess because you dont know about it then these reserve rostering practices that have started to evolve are not happening, again we will have to watch this space for more developments if this way of rostering is kept up. I do hope that Krusty is privy to see some of these rosters, but he will have to look @ other bases & past rosters (not too far in the past), if he can be bothered about it. If he can infact substantiate what i have spoken about I will be gladly awaiting an apology, if not we stand at a stalemate in our disagreement. I agree about we decide whether or not to answer our phone & the duty could be worse if things happen through the day, but this does not give them the right to lie & tell you that you must accept the duty when you HAVE told them to call back in the reserve period to notify you.
penetrator is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2011, 22:56
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Somewhere new.....
Posts: 243
So penetrator, you have seen a roster that has 15 of 20 works days as RSV have you? Was the person on SOC? Was the roster TRGRSV? If so then I would believe it. But that's not because they can screw that person over. Would simply be that the resources aren't there to deal with that. If that is the case too, then your post was still not telling the whole truth. I will apologise if I am wrong, will you?

As for the lying? Might it be the fact that crewing are pretty much all new and not fully aware of your rights? If this is the case you are Ina position to politely correct them, if you accept it, clearly YOU do not know your rights! Know what you are entitled too, that's your mistake but not knowing not theirs.
Stiff Under Carriage is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2011, 23:51
  #24 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: a nica place
Posts: 234
as more pilots go, the rostering dept has to get more creative and so does crewing. And you can bet that the people running the sections are putting pressure on to make things like this. They dont care about your eba as much as you do, after all, they are doing their job.

And its a thing where you know if this rostering practices are true then it is clearly in the know by the C.P and the FOM's. Its just they also dont care about your eba that much either! they get the best of both worlds, the benefits of the eba and the benefits of being in the boys club/management.

shame really.

There is a good but old article called "Snakes in suits. When Psychopaths Go To Work"
A short video interview/news clip of the authors :
TODAY Video Player

Anyways, at the end of the day, treat your professional workers with respect, honour the EBA, if they cant do that, its easy, vote with your feet.
jibba_jabba is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2011, 00:54
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oombi
Age: 39
Posts: 87
I must say Stiff that I have also seen a roster which was almost half filled by RSV and this person was not soc'ed. He was pretty unhappy about it. Also saw another with 10 RSV's made up of 3x3 in a row, and one single. Whether they chased it up with the REXPC I do not know.

Flying Meat Cleaver is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2011, 02:15
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: vic
Posts: 24

Once again I believe you are trying to read more into things or are making excuses for their actions . All I have done is put some issues out in the air that are going on, these maybe factors in what help some people make their decision about resigning or why they are contemplating throwing in the towel & heading to other carriers. I have phoned the person that had the questionable roster today to confirm facts, 14reserves/19days possible flying, 1 course, not soc'd, no annual leave, no trng reserve. So I do apologise to you & to fellow ppruners for exaggerating. I asked if I could have a copy but this request was respectfully declined for his/her personal reasons (convenient I know;-) ).

Stop making excuses for the action of crewing, if they are new then they would of had training which should of covered this, if they are not sure they should seek help before issuing stand over tactics I will not fall for it but some may & this is not right on crewings behalf, they would probably get a better response from people if these tactics were not employed & a nice request to the person be asked.

Jibba totally agree with what you have said in your last post & believe that is what I was getting at.

FMC thanks for chipping in with some support of the crap rostering practices word has some people in Adelaide base have had blocks of 5 days in a row reserve, not much of a lifestyle with that going on.

I ask of you, with all of your wisdom, what is a fair amount to be rostered on reserve? With this amount of reserves being rostered Rex must have a surplus of crew! We all know this is definately not the case. Or are some people flying their arses off while others wait for the phone to ring.
Once again I will say no services have been cut! So why so many people on so many reserves? We can clearly see that normal services are not being covered! I thought that the basic idea of reserve was to cover unscheduled leave, additional flights, charters, people SOC'D & so on. I say the way of rostering being employed is to allow the greatest amount of flexibility in swapping people around on a day to day basis so that the 14 day period your talking about in an earlier post does now not apply. This then leaves the people with this crap, unable to have any family or social life. Is this going to make want crews to stay in the company? I think NOT & thats what this thread is about resignations these rostering practices will help this process along.
penetrator is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2011, 11:11
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Posts: 167
It has been common for rosters to have 10 Reserve Days on them. I haven't had one myself for a few months, but when you do get one of those rosters it makes it hard to plan things outside of work.
Capt EFIS is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2011, 20:21
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1
For what it's worth I fly with Crusty all the time and he's one of the best pilots at Rex to fly with.
buzzby300 is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2011, 21:15
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,216
Careful buzzby300, or people may accuse Krusty of miss spending all those overtime payments!

On the subject of reserve periods on the roster, I personally haven't seen much evidence of this lately. My current roster has only one reserve. Last time around there was some talk about it, and indeed at the height of the bloodletting I do recall some rosters with significant reserve periods, even when services where being cancelled! At the time I queried this practice with the REXPC, but I honestly didn't see it as widespread?

Clearly if anyone see's there are significant reserves on their rosters, give the details to your local rep. Logically reserves should decrease in these "interesting" times.

Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 13th Nov 2011 at 23:59.
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2011, 11:08
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 175
So any report on what happened in Fair Work Australia today?
ACT Crusader is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2011, 02:28
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
What are these jokers in Fair Work for again........?

Trying to screw over the C&T dept?
Trying to screw over crew with crap accomodation?
Still on about T Richards. Does anybody know what happened to the other guys they were going to GET for alleged poor driving skills.
aceinspace is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2011, 06:48
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Artic
Age: 41
Posts: 79
I hear that another two Captains handed in resignations this week. Would anyone know what the ratio to F/O CAPT would be now?
chickoroll is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2011, 08:14
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 24
What was the fair work meeting about? EBA stalled?
evolved is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2011, 23:51
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: No-Where man
Posts: 58
Well all I can say is that Rex deserves what they get; and that this problem of low moral and F*CKING OVER people is really caused by only a handfull of people in Baxter Rd. You know who you are

To the rest of you, its been a pleasure.
lil_blueberry is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2011, 00:56
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
I've been reading through the threads and finally decided to comment Be nice though i'm new! I came through the Rex Cadetship program (so I'm one of 'those' people) which gave me a fine initial insight to the chaotic organisation that is Rex. Like most things in Rex AAPA seems to be run on the smallest minimum cost (believe me the food is the cheap stuff!) of staff and resources. That place turns out the quality product it does because of the dedication and hard work ethic of the staff and not because they are paid well or treated well. There were pluses and minuses but I did enjoy the cadet program and glad I made the choice.

I also do enjoy my work at Rex. I know I am new, and that's fine, and I do my best to try and learn from the Captains I fly with. Some people don't like the cadets, and I understand why and see it as just another part of the office politics.

So I like the job and the people. It has just really staggered me to see the moral level plummet so much over the last few months. Over the last 12 years I've worked for lots of companies, big and small, and if any of those had staff engagement problems like Rex does now, there would be management down on the ground trying to work it out and fix it. It astounds me how no one in the invisible management team seems to care. How hard would it be for one of the executive to come to each of the crew rooms once a month so staff could talk to them. They could even take turns! I worked for a multinational bank, and the ceo visited every floor once a month to do birthdays and award handouts. It worked wonders for morale.

I always try to stay positive and see things 'glass half full' but recently have had a couple of incidents involving ops, crewing and being stuffed around that make me wonder who runs this ship. Rex makes money. That's great. I'm sure all Rex staff are thankful for that. And i'm sure the shareholder(s)! is/are happy. Unfortunately though in the race to the bottom line no one wins. What price do we all pay for the share price.

As I said, I'm new. I'm still keen and very happy to be flying and for the opportunity to get into the RHS of a Saab. But even my partner, when I have come home and related some of the stories of what's been happening has asked "when are you going to work for a real airline?"

Rex runs on the good will of it's employees. How long until that well runs out?
Komac is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2011, 07:27
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: No-Where man
Posts: 58
Snakes in suits.

Good post Komac;

Sad that you are starting to see the real Rex; Minimum support, cheap options and where managment hide and make rules that they dont see the effects of and the frustration of real life at the coal face.... and not just pilot issues. Its simple, they dont care, so neither should you.

Get your experience and get out, but in the mean time you are doing the right thing, be the best FO you can be, learn and support the EBA. Also, be applying for all the jobs you can think of.

LKH posted in the Friday Files a typical "warm snuggly message" to all things called EBA and tried once again to sound like a reasonable person. He uses the standard formula. Nice guy approach coupled with some obscure facts and figures that show the detrimental position the entire globe and economy is in..... and then uses this fear to suggest that WE all must PULL TOGETHER TO SURVIVE, like a family, you know and then offers some substandard EBA proposal!

Its no family LKH, the a man who spends over $100k to hire a QC to appeal the re-hiring of T.Richards only for it to be thrownout! Oh sorry that was Rex's money, and a fine waste that was; Oh sorry its the billionaire who tells us that its sooooo tough out there!

Comparing International carriers in foreign markets was also the same example he used in the last EBA scare tactic propganda! Then wow, rex produces a nice profit in the financial crisis! No profit share for you!
Its creative manipulation of numbers to make you give in to management proposals for this EBA.

Get stuffed LKH, its easy to see through your crap, and its just that, playing with peoples lives like it dont matter, hey, your "yes" men at the top forgo their pay rise, haha, what about the shares and tax-free dividends?? Thats the dirty little secret you dont want out, is that its not about wage soley, their large wage determines share allocation and then tax-free div's! Yawn, so predictable.

Yeah I agree, some of them do earn their money, but its certainly not ETHICAL! And thats why you have and always will have a high attrition rate!

All I can say is if you fall for it then your a goose with your head in a noose!

Its simple, other operators are taking turboprop guys and paying MUCH better, so time to step up LKH.
lil_blueberry is offline  
Old 26th Nov 2011, 23:13
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 243
how many cadets?

How many cadets have started courses at Rex (Wagga) in 2011, and what are their plans for 2012?

Surely the cadet intakes can't solve the problems of experienced resignations, no matter how many they train.

Seabreeze is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2011, 02:38
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Here and there
Posts: 26
Hi Seabreeze,

As far as I'm aware, there was three courses planned for this year - REX008, 009 and 010. Each with a planned 10 cadets. Last I heard there was also three courses planned for 2012. Don't know where all these cadets are going to go, and who will fly with them, as it seems there is a bit of a shortage for candidates for command upgrades.

That is all on hearsay though, so maybe someone else can comment giving some facts on this matter.
VIMD is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2011, 04:32
  #39 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: a nica place
Posts: 234
Its simple, they have started a ground school with direct entry GA people!

Still, they may only get a trickle of command potential in the short term with this approach.

So, really, when it comes to the wire, management always fall back on GA and fast track them through to command if they can; Much to the envy of people who paid $$$$$ to skip this GA process!
jibba_jabba is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2011, 05:14
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2,739
Rex runs on the good will of it's employees. How long until that well runs out?
You have just summed up the Australian aviation scene in one post. It is no different from GA through to major airlines, nothing changes. Aviation doesn't change at all. Don't think that getting to a 'real' airline will change much. The more things change the more they stay the same.
neville_nobody is offline  

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