Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

CARBON TAX-It's Started!

Old 19th Oct 2011, 22:17
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CARBON TAX-It's Started!

I cannot believe that the government is imposing this on the country, when the whole world economy is so fragile. I lost my job once at Ansett, and don't want to lose my current jet job, because of costs imposed on my airline, by a tax that will do nothing for the climate!!

Domestic fare hikes will slug travellers | The Australian
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Old 19th Oct 2011, 23:43
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"A $6 to$7 fare increase on a round trip ticket?" Is that all it costs to save the planet?

Stop being pathetic. Now that the carbon tax is announced, watch businesses spring up everywhere with efficient products that minimizes your carbon footprint and the associated tax.
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Old 19th Oct 2011, 23:53
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I agree with you Aviator.
It ain't a few bucks on an airline ticket. It's a few bucks for EVERYTHING.
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Old 19th Oct 2011, 23:53
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It's just like the mining tax a whole lot of fuss before and when it happens nobody will notice a thing, business as usual. As if people aren't going to fly 'cause the tickets price is the cost of a couple of cups coffee more.

I always find it amusing that so many pilots are staunch Liberal party followers. If it wasn't for Labour how much fun do you think we'd have negotiating EBA's, it's hard enough as it is.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 00:14
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always find it amusing that so many pilots are staunch Liberal party followers. If it wasn't for Labour how much fun do you think we'd have negotiating EBA's, it's hard enough as it is.
And the Labor party has been the friend of the pilot? Must be cause we're all working class glorified bus drivers. I don't care if they've changed, but it will take a long time and a lot better policies to forget what they did to assist our pay and conditions back then.

As for the carbon tax, its not just the $6-$7 for an airline ticket its every thing will get slightly more expensive as a result of basic costs increasing such as electricity, fuel and gas supply. None of these industries will change at all unless the tax is countered with some sort of realistic incentive payment to move to cleaner energy, the additional cost is just passed onto the consumer because they are basically cartel or monopoly industries. The end result is less expendable income for those to buy things such as solar panels, efficient cars etc... The mining tax had at least some credibility behind it, carbon tax, same as GST with some sort of warm fuzzy feeling associated with it, nothing will realy change except cost of living.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 00:24
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This carbon tax is without doubt one of the worst things to ever happen in Australia, especially from Juliar who promised before the election we would never ever have one under any Government she led.

It will NOT help the Planet and so called climate change, climate change has been around for millions of years long befoe there was ANY man made pollution, just ask the Dinosaurs, no wait you can NOT ask them as they were wiped out by climate change millions of years ago.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 00:31
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Fellas fellas fellas.

Some lean to the left. Some lean to the right. Some overbalance and fall off the right hand edge of the earth. We're all entitled to our political views.

Just as the 10% tax on absolutely everything by many people's political hero (not mine though) John Howard didn't cost you your jobs, neither is the carbon tax. Industry will adjust and people will get used to it. I just hope, somewhat vainly, that they use it wisely and as it was intended.

Both parties have made somewhat of a hash of the policy though. Gillard has been extraordinary clumsy in its introduction, and Abbott has just ticked off Business leaders by telling them he'll trash everything when he gets into power, which is the absolute last thing Business wanted to hear.

I know Gillard is lagging badly in the polls, but between her and Abbott, I seriously wonder who is the biggest twit.

And airsupport, although what you say is partly correct, it is irrelevant. It has a variety of causes. Some of those can be "natural" and some can not. And mods, if this thread gets too heavily into politics and anti-science, can we move it somewhere or bin it?
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 00:45
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Both parties have made somewhat of a hash of the policy though. Gillard has been extraordinary clumsy in its introduction, and Abbott has just ticked off Business leaders by telling them he'll trash everything when he gets into power, which is the absolute last thing Business wanted to hear.

I know Gillard is lagging badly in the polls, but between her and Abbott, I seriously wonder who is the biggest twit.

And airsupport, although what you say is partly correct, it is irrelevant. It has a variety of causes. Some of those can be "natural" and some can not. And mods, if this thread gets too heavily into politics and anti-science, can we move it somewhere or bin it?
Tony is doing the right thing IMHO, instead of waiting for the start of the next election campaign he is warning now that after the next election he will remove the carbon tax, so IF business has any sense they will not get into it.

What I said is true, just you will not admit it, climate change has been around for millions of years, long before there was ANY man made pollution.

Finally just because you do NOT agree you want the thread locked, you can NOT win a debate on it so get rid of it.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 01:47
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Who do you Prefer ?

Abbot and Costello...the comedy duo
Abbot and Bishop.....The religious right duo
While Gillard is lacking in authority and vision and is held to ransom by the minorities.I could not vote for Abbot and his lack of policy and negativity.
If,on the other hand,Turnbull makes a run close to election time thats a whole different ballgame
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 02:00
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your right we will get used to it , which is a political way of saying "suckers", we do just get used to everything that we get lumped upon us, the labour party will go down in history as one of the worst, the school building waste, the insulation waste ,the carbon tax debacle , the asylum seeker mess, and it appears NBN is starting to unravel, I can't think of a single project they've attempted that hasn't turned to crap in their hands, I'm just getting sick of being told I'll get used to it , why do I and the rest of the population have to be continually screwed ,Gillard is hoping we'll forget that she shafted us when the next election comes around ,I don't forget that easily , and hopefully the greens and the independents will cop a well deserved shilacking as well!!
The alternative isn't the best but it's certainly better than the the current lying bastards
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 02:07
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Just as the 10% tax on absolutely everything by many people's political hero (not mine though) John Howard didn't cost you your jobs, neither is the carbon tax. Industry will adjust and people will get used to it. I just hope, somewhat vainly, that they use it wisely and as it was intended.
No this is totally different.

A GST was only on the end product. Add to that the government also abolished many other taxes that were also in play at the time. There is no tax on fresh food either. So the actual cost of some products went down some went up by less than 10% and others went up by the full 10%. Business also claim the GST back on products they use to stop double taxing.

Now a Carbon tax will be on all inputs into a product, transport and sale of the product then they add GST.

So say you make tshirts that are 100% Australian. You buy cotton from farmers. They pay carbon tax on the production of the cotton. The fuel. The electricity etc. The cotton is trucked to your factory. Carbon tax on the fuel. You run a factory carbon tax on electricity. Carbon tax on everything trucked into the factory. You make your tshirt. It is then trucked again. Carbon tax on that. The retail shop, pays carbon tax on the electricity running everything in shop. Then you pay GST.

Now imagine this on everything you buy...........

Then it gets better.

After a few years they will go to a carbon trading scheme where Juliar says that they will allow the free market to set the price on carbon. Which is actually BS because Labor will be setting a price floor on the price of carbon. So it's not the free market at all. In fact by setting the price floor they have guaranteed the loss for everyone thereby encouraging Goldman Sachs et al you take more risk as they know that the price won't fall below $14 a tonne so that means they can take some calculated risk and that they will never lose 100% of their money.

In short:

The winners from the Carbon Tax/Trading Scheme
The Tasmanian Government
Large investment houses and people trading in carbon credits
The UN
The Chinese economy
Solar power/green technology companies

The loses:
Anyone in Australia below a upper middle class standard of living
The transport industry (ie us)
Large industrial manufacturing.


This tax will destroy the middle class in this country and totally destroy the economy. We will be importing everything including food as it will be cheaper to do so rather than buy Australian made.

In short the Greens/Labor will totally bugger up the country if this goes ahead as planned.

What I can't figure out is why? What is really in play here? I just don't get it.

Last edited by neville_nobody; 20th Oct 2011 at 03:52.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 02:56
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What I can't figure out is why? What is really in play here? I just don't get it.
I am sure the ONLY people in Australia that want it are the greens, then we had Juliar after promising before the election that we would never ever have it under any Government she led, turn around against the wishes of the majority of Aussies and bring it in, just so she could hang on to power via an unholy alliance with the greens.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 03:04
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Everyone seems to be having a hard time spelling 'Julia' on here. Not hard guys! The 'r' and 'a' key aren't even close together.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 03:13
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Hi Jake, or should I call you Bob B,or Tony W, or Adam B, or Rob O.

Please tell us who you really are and what portfolio you are responsible for, because I have some good advice for you.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 03:13
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Smile

You will get it eventually Jake.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 03:17
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Wake up Jake!!!

Sound it out slowly....
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 03:17
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Irony????

Julia lied about the Carbon Tax, therefore she became Ju-Liar. Geddit?
What I don't get though, is why is it called a Carbon Tax? Clearly they are taxing carbon dioxide, not carbon.
The cynic in me would say they use the term "Carbon" to conjure up images of dirty, sooty chimneys because if they talked about carbon dioxide, the great unwashed would correctly start asking about what plants use to photosynthesise and what comes out of their mouths when they exhale.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 03:52
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Clearly I was having a dig at it! Jeez I'm not that slow...
I don't necessarily see the carbon tax as a bad thing, but there are far better ways at going about reducing pollution...
If the government spent the money they have spent trying to publicise the Carbon tax on research into alternative energy and fuels we might actually be getting somewhere!

Now for some wise words of Abbott:
Denying what is widely considered 'science' and sounding an awful lot like Julia...
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 03:58
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There has been climate change on Earth forever, millions of years, that is what killed off the mighty Dinosaurs, long before Man began polluting.

A ridiculous carbon tax in ONE Country is NOT going to change much, just more hardship for all Aussies.

And apologies for Juliar, it is just easier than typing out her full name JULIAthebigbigliaR.
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Old 20th Oct 2011, 04:38
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Climate change killed off the dinosaurs? Tell us, what else do you know about the dinosaurs?

I'll bet my hat that the foot stampers here are totally blowing the consequences of this tax out of proportion.

Unlike the GST, if I don't want to pay this tax I just have to buy products that are made in more environmentally-conscious ways. 21st century folks... people have been getting their energy from burning stuff for hundreds of years, time for a less primitive solution.

By the way, yes plants do photosynthesise carbon dioxide but what happens when you cut all the plants down and burn them? All the carbon in the plants just disappears, does it?
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