CARBON TAX-It's Started!
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they both have an unflappable belief in their convections
Which as you know, are like cliches, and for all intensive porpoises, should be avoided like the plaque.
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Corrected. Just a spelling mistake.
I can't take people seriously who see conspiracy theories at every turn.
My favourite conspiracy theory is about the government covering up UFO sightings. More colorful than global warming sceptics and not as offensive as 9/11 denier nutters.
I can't take people seriously who see conspiracy theories at every turn.
My favourite conspiracy theory is about the government covering up UFO sightings. More colorful than global warming sceptics and not as offensive as 9/11 denier nutters.
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I can't take people seriously who see conspiracy theories at every turn.
So perhaps you too are tarred with the conspiracy theorist brush
It all depends on your ideology.
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Hey, peter. PM me please so I can explain that I am not a climate change/ global warming skeptic but a carbon tax outlaw and you are a global warming/ climate change alarmist attempting to rob me blind with a tax that your mob said would never happen.
Get ready for incoming old mate.
Get ready for incoming old mate.
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I'm not sure where you get these "rights" from
Hopefully you and the prawn get the raw prawn.
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@Frank - you are wasting your time and energy worrying about a Carbon Tax.
The reality is the day to day effect will be minimal.
The big effect for you is worrying about a Carbon Tax, not any financial cost.
Don't get wound up by all the people carrying on about the Carbon Tax, life will go on.
The reality is the day to day effect will be minimal.
The big effect for you is worrying about a Carbon Tax, not any financial cost.
Don't get wound up by all the people carrying on about the Carbon Tax, life will go on.
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Fact is Gillard said there would be no carbon tax and the electorate believed her.
I didn't think so.
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Quote:
Fact is Gillard said there would be no carbon tax and the electorate believed her.
So Frank, did you vote ALP in the last federal election because Julia Gillard said there would be no carbon tax?
I didn't think so.
So Prawn, did you NOT vote ALP at the last election because Gillard said there would be no Carbon Tax?
FFS, I don't know how many times that I have read Labor apologists making this point trying to excuse this most disgraceful of lies.
Next you will try to tell us that it is OK because little Johnny said there would be no GST, however, the big difference is that Howard changed his mind and actually had the fortitude to take his position to an election.
Surely the fact that a majority of people voted for the opposition beholds this government to take any major policy shift to an election. How can we have any faith in a political process that allows a minority government to make such a massive fundamental change of policy without going to an election?
I can't understand that you rusted on idealogues just don't get why people are pissed about this.
Fact is Gillard said there would be no carbon tax and the electorate believed her.
So Frank, did you vote ALP in the last federal election because Julia Gillard said there would be no carbon tax?
I didn't think so.
So Prawn, did you NOT vote ALP at the last election because Gillard said there would be no Carbon Tax?
FFS, I don't know how many times that I have read Labor apologists making this point trying to excuse this most disgraceful of lies.
Next you will try to tell us that it is OK because little Johnny said there would be no GST, however, the big difference is that Howard changed his mind and actually had the fortitude to take his position to an election.
Surely the fact that a majority of people voted for the opposition beholds this government to take any major policy shift to an election. How can we have any faith in a political process that allows a minority government to make such a massive fundamental change of policy without going to an election?
I can't understand that you rusted on idealogues just don't get why people are pissed about this.
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Despite the bolstering of their position by taking on Slippery Pete I think that their whole pack of cards is about to come tumbling down.
The aftermath of their "conference" with the leaking of the report about Rudd and his screwing the election campaign will enrage him, as will the deal done with the ABC while he was conveniently out of the country.
He hasn't got the numbers but there's no accounting for a man with so much hate in his soul.
So the trolls don't worry me overmuch - they'll shortly be on here bleating about how they was robbed by an ungrateful Australian public.
The aftermath of their "conference" with the leaking of the report about Rudd and his screwing the election campaign will enrage him, as will the deal done with the ABC while he was conveniently out of the country.
He hasn't got the numbers but there's no accounting for a man with so much hate in his soul.
So the trolls don't worry me overmuch - they'll shortly be on here bleating about how they was robbed by an ungrateful Australian public.
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The reality is a Carbon Tax will be implemented. On that basis there is no point sooking any more.
From a practical point of view, rising oil prices have had a much bigger effect than any Carbon Tax would.
Fossil fuels are running out and another good effect of the Carbon Tax will be to encourage alternatives. This means that the supply of fossil fuels might last a few years more before they run out.
Some of the energy alternative for aviation look interesting, although it's still early days:
Solar plane promises new era of flight - CNN.com
When I need to replace the Lycoming engine in my plane I'll stick with low compression pistons to give me more fuel options.
Hopefully ethanol will be certified for GA use at some point soon.
From a practical point of view, rising oil prices have had a much bigger effect than any Carbon Tax would.
Fossil fuels are running out and another good effect of the Carbon Tax will be to encourage alternatives. This means that the supply of fossil fuels might last a few years more before they run out.
Some of the energy alternative for aviation look interesting, although it's still early days:
Solar plane promises new era of flight - CNN.com
When I need to replace the Lycoming engine in my plane I'll stick with low compression pistons to give me more fuel options.
Hopefully ethanol will be certified for GA use at some point soon.
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peter,
doesn't engine manufacturers spending billions on new jet engine designs that are designed to power the next aircraft for the next few decades tell you something about the oil reserves?
There is plenty of black stuff in the ground!
doesn't engine manufacturers spending billions on new jet engine designs that are designed to power the next aircraft for the next few decades tell you something about the oil reserves?
There is plenty of black stuff in the ground!
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When I need to replace the Lycoming engine in my plane
I'll stick with low compression pistons to give me more fuel options.
I'll stick with low compression pistons to give me more fuel options.
What fuel options can I expect once I put the new pistons in?
If I use ethanol mix, is it pure or denatured?
What carbon tax is due on Ethanol?
Ethanol use (E85), in drag cars is used in very high compression engines, why is it different in the Lycoming engine in your plane
.?
Last edited by blackhand; 6th Dec 2011 at 19:46.
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Tell me Peter, what is the impact of this Carbon Tax on fuel? Your assumption is that as this is supposed to be a tax to penalise the emission of carbon dioxide, fuel would be right at the top of the tree.
Guess what Peter? Assumption- incorrect.
What this lie is actually about is taxing electricity, and unlike a GST where the end user pays (business claim back the GST, therefore there is no multiplier effect), this evil and insidious tax on power will be added at every stage of the production process. By the time that you end up purchasing a locally made product, it may well have had 5 increments of carbon tax placed on it ie: producer, transporter, wholesaler, transporter then retailer. Not to mention how many increments were already included in the raw materials that the manufacturer purchased.
This is an evil, insidious lie and a handbrake to Australia being competitive in a global market. How on earth can our manufacturers compete globally once this comes in?
But that all doesn't really matter to you, because you can sit back comfortably with your middle class guilt sated by the fact that you really are doing "the right thing" and feeling all warm and fuzzy, when in reality you have done nothing to impact climate change. Nothing, zero, nada, scata
Guess what Peter? Assumption- incorrect.
What this lie is actually about is taxing electricity, and unlike a GST where the end user pays (business claim back the GST, therefore there is no multiplier effect), this evil and insidious tax on power will be added at every stage of the production process. By the time that you end up purchasing a locally made product, it may well have had 5 increments of carbon tax placed on it ie: producer, transporter, wholesaler, transporter then retailer. Not to mention how many increments were already included in the raw materials that the manufacturer purchased.
This is an evil, insidious lie and a handbrake to Australia being competitive in a global market. How on earth can our manufacturers compete globally once this comes in?
But that all doesn't really matter to you, because you can sit back comfortably with your middle class guilt sated by the fact that you really are doing "the right thing" and feeling all warm and fuzzy, when in reality you have done nothing to impact climate change. Nothing, zero, nada, scata
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What this lie is actually about is taxing electricity, and unlike a GST where the end user pays (business claim back the GST, therefore there is no multiplier effect), this evil and insidious tax on power will be added at every stage of the production process. By the time that you end up purchasing a locally made product, it may well have had 5 increments of carbon tax placed on it ie: producer, transporter, wholesaler, transporter then retailer. Not to mention how many increments were already included in the raw materials that the manufacturer purchased.
This is an evil, insidious lie and a handbrake to Australia being competitive in a global market. How on earth can our manufacturers compete globally once this comes in?
This is an evil, insidious lie and a handbrake to Australia being competitive in a global market. How on earth can our manufacturers compete globally once this comes in?
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backhand - well said and, more importantly, shows that a certain poster is talking out of his fundament and probably has no more to do with aviation than applying for his business class seat from his masters in Sussex St.
The word Troll (and political plant) is written large.
The word Troll (and political plant) is written large.
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Towering Q, I would suggest the Hon Member for Wentworth, and Goldman Sachs, has little interest in the birds and the bees, but a great deal of interest in the new latest get rich scheme, (with govt. backing) that of the carbon credit scheme. Where do we all sign up?
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At present the variable cost of flying my plane with a single 320 ci Lycoming engine is probably about $120 an hour.
When the Carbon Tax is implemented it might be something like $123 an hour - too small a change to notice and it won't affect my aviation.
In the last two years the rising cost of Avgas has increased my cost per hour by probably $40, a much bigger change.
Oil is a fossil fuel and they supply is finite. As the supply of oil dries up the price will continue to rise until it becomes so expensive demand drops off.
I can imagine oil at $200 a barrel within a couple of years and $500 a barrel within ten to 15 years.
If we conserve our finite oil reserves now it will soften the shock of rising oil prices in future years.
At some point I'll have to commit $30k for a new engine, but like the idea of deferring the decision for a couple of more years until there is more certainly about future oil supplies.
When the Carbon Tax is implemented it might be something like $123 an hour - too small a change to notice and it won't affect my aviation.
In the last two years the rising cost of Avgas has increased my cost per hour by probably $40, a much bigger change.
Oil is a fossil fuel and they supply is finite. As the supply of oil dries up the price will continue to rise until it becomes so expensive demand drops off.
I can imagine oil at $200 a barrel within a couple of years and $500 a barrel within ten to 15 years.
If we conserve our finite oil reserves now it will soften the shock of rising oil prices in future years.
At some point I'll have to commit $30k for a new engine, but like the idea of deferring the decision for a couple of more years until there is more certainly about future oil supplies.
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So my plane costs will be an EXTRA $1100 a year.
Car fuel expenses $700-800/yr
Boat and bike, maybe another $200
So I am now $2000 after tax worse off, just on your supposed guess on the price of avgas going up a small amount.
Now how about all the other things like food clothes electricity etc etc.....
how many thousands is it going to cost me per year?
And how much are you and your greenie gay marriage mates in Canberra going to rebate, offset or otherwise compensate me for?
Tell me why I am happy about this when there is no science to prove AGW.....still.
And I am still waiting for your considered response to this;
PS and you say the small amount wont hurt, thus it will not change usage, but you are concerned about finite resources
Does anyone else see a problem with this guys thought process? I hope that O-320 keeps working well, would hate to think you had to make some quick rational decissions
Car fuel expenses $700-800/yr
Boat and bike, maybe another $200
So I am now $2000 after tax worse off, just on your supposed guess on the price of avgas going up a small amount.
Now how about all the other things like food clothes electricity etc etc.....
how many thousands is it going to cost me per year?
And how much are you and your greenie gay marriage mates in Canberra going to rebate, offset or otherwise compensate me for?
Tell me why I am happy about this when there is no science to prove AGW.....still.
And I am still waiting for your considered response to this;
peterc
My dear chap,
Quote:
If people in this thread had to include reputable references the AGW people would go very quiet.
I am not sure I have seen you do this once yet, and we can throw reputable references at you all day long and YOU ignore them. Stop smoking the weed man!
We or I have given you ample material to go check against, and who said you were the Global Warming Police
. All you do is prattle rubbish.
I went and used the self confessed green but no axe to grind fellows website, provided by Dutchie and look what came out of it. No thats not good enough for you hey.
I want you to answer this....and with full referencing please!
Quote:
Jabawocky:
Give them to me, they can help offset my carbon taxes when they get applied.
We have plenty of unfair taxation as it is, but this one is the most unfair I have seen yet.
No matter what Jullie Liar says even the poorest folk will be worse off, and those of hard working middle class folk will pay a fortune in increased cost of living in food, utilities etc etc, I will get slugged heaps more for fuel usage etc, and how much of the compensation will come my way ...... Not one cent.
So all these folk who get massive amounts of my tax dollars spent on them already have all the compensation, some big industries allegedly will get some too, and I will get nothing.
I am mighty pissed off about it in case you wondered. And despite your warm fuzzy feeling about donating some amount to plant trees, which is a noble gesture, you are quite likely to be in the same boat. Ripped off to the hilt.
This is an evil, STEAL from the middle classes and give to the wealthy or means tested lucky few TAX. It is not anything more than criminal.
Go back and read my posts about how a tax such as this should be applied. It shall have no exemptions. Use it, You Pay. It should not later be turned into some fraudulent trading scheme either. Might as well turn over our whole tax system to a open market trading scheme.
In every country that introduced such a tax in the past, what happened? The supposed outcome has failed 100% and I wonder why
As for all the proven science, I don't care if you think you are right, in another 40 years you will be proven wrong. But what will this stupid tax have done to so many folk over that time is more important.
Take your heads out of the sand and look at the facts, if you truly believe man made CO2 has an affect on global temps, fill ya boots, but what will this stupid tax do about it? More the point with your clever science PROVE that first before we accept the tax. Remember all it takes to test the hypothesis is one result to prove it wrong
So pony up lads, prove the tax will make any difference. Get all the science, rubbery or not, and show us how it will work. I can't wait!
Not another post from you please until you do.
Thanks in advance.
My dear chap,
Quote:
If people in this thread had to include reputable references the AGW people would go very quiet.
I am not sure I have seen you do this once yet, and we can throw reputable references at you all day long and YOU ignore them. Stop smoking the weed man!
We or I have given you ample material to go check against, and who said you were the Global Warming Police
. All you do is prattle rubbish.I went and used the self confessed green but no axe to grind fellows website, provided by Dutchie and look what came out of it. No thats not good enough for you hey.
I want you to answer this....and with full referencing please!
Quote:
Jabawocky:
Give them to me, they can help offset my carbon taxes when they get applied.
We have plenty of unfair taxation as it is, but this one is the most unfair I have seen yet.
No matter what Jullie Liar says even the poorest folk will be worse off, and those of hard working middle class folk will pay a fortune in increased cost of living in food, utilities etc etc, I will get slugged heaps more for fuel usage etc, and how much of the compensation will come my way ...... Not one cent.
So all these folk who get massive amounts of my tax dollars spent on them already have all the compensation, some big industries allegedly will get some too, and I will get nothing.
I am mighty pissed off about it in case you wondered. And despite your warm fuzzy feeling about donating some amount to plant trees, which is a noble gesture, you are quite likely to be in the same boat. Ripped off to the hilt.
This is an evil, STEAL from the middle classes and give to the wealthy or means tested lucky few TAX. It is not anything more than criminal.
Go back and read my posts about how a tax such as this should be applied. It shall have no exemptions. Use it, You Pay. It should not later be turned into some fraudulent trading scheme either. Might as well turn over our whole tax system to a open market trading scheme.
In every country that introduced such a tax in the past, what happened? The supposed outcome has failed 100% and I wonder why
As for all the proven science, I don't care if you think you are right, in another 40 years you will be proven wrong. But what will this stupid tax have done to so many folk over that time is more important.
Take your heads out of the sand and look at the facts, if you truly believe man made CO2 has an affect on global temps, fill ya boots, but what will this stupid tax do about it? More the point with your clever science PROVE that first before we accept the tax. Remember all it takes to test the hypothesis is one result to prove it wrong
So pony up lads, prove the tax will make any difference. Get all the science, rubbery or not, and show us how it will work. I can't wait!
Not another post from you please until you do.
Thanks in advance.
PS and you say the small amount wont hurt, thus it will not change usage, but you are concerned about finite resources
Does anyone else see a problem with this guys thought process? I hope that O-320 keeps working well, would hate to think you had to make some quick rational decissions
