Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013

[Holding at]

[QUOTE]Go to your local Aerodrome, walk into a flying school, and talk to the instructors there - that will be a good starting point.[QUOTE]

With their 50 hrs experience post CPL they will be a great source of helpful information regarding your future.

[AviatoR21]

We all have to start somewhere! I bet you were a Maverick at 50 hours past CPL holding at!

[Holding at]

Never claimed to be. Unfortunately, that is a common reality in our flying schools where many ab initio instructors are all very fresh CPLs themselves and they teach and offer the same inexperienced advice that they themselves were fed 12 months earlier. If you can find an instructor that has worked in GA or airlines before becoming an instructor then hang on to them.

I am one of the few that can see the benefits that come from a cadetship program - if it is run correctly. Benefits such as mentoring from experienced pilots, practical application of the rules, CRM, training systems etc. I don't however think that a QLink Dash 8 or Skywest ATR operating in and out of east coast major cities and large regional controlled airports is the best environment for it. An Air North (Metro/Bras), Skytrans, Macair style operation is a much better environment given that you are operating into smaller towns and airstrips that enable you more time to be mentored on the job.

The flaw in low time GA (and don't get me wrong, there a plenty of good things about it) is that you take the inexperienced advice that you received from your inexperienced instructors when you did your CPL, go into the bush and fly single pilot for a few years and develop bad habits based on your inexperienced advice that aren't picked up for years until you finally find your seat in a 2 crew environment.

[benjam]

Andrewa,

Join the RAAF.

I did.

If you pass pilots' course, you won't regret it.

[AviatoR21]

Tell that to all the EasyJet cadets who fly into major European hubs on their first job in an A320. Flying a Dash or ATR into a East coast port has no comparison.

[Tidbinbilla]

Back on topic, thanks. This thread is specifically about a particular airline's cadet program - not the merits or otherwise of pursuing same.

THAT has been debated ad nauseam on other threads

[ChubbyPilot]

Hi there! I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an idea of how many cadets they are looking to recruit in 2013?

2) In terms of the candidates themselves, do you think it will help if applicants are employed at the time of the intake? The reason I ask is because I finished working a few months ago and I'm currently continuing on to finish my PPL. I was wondering if I should start applying for other jobs (not in avaiation but engineering) in the meantime or wait till the applications open but then I'll have to declare that I'm unemployed at that moment.

I think the easiest way to answer this is to ask if anyone knows the current set of cadets and whether they were employed at the time of their application.

Thanks in advance!

[speedjet]

Rumour heard this week was that 1 of the cadets has not met current standard and is no longer part of cadet program.

Not wanting to create a cadet bashing thread but if true it is disappointing after all the selection criteria by VA to have an unsuccessful cadet.

[PLovett]

it is disappointing after all the selection criteria by VA to have an unsuccessful cadet

The nature of cadetships is that they mostly involve taking someone who has no flying experience previously. The company can apply all of the tests it likes in selecting their cadets but they are not infallible and there will always be some who don't make the grade. It is the same for the RAAF and self-funded students.

[KRUSTY 34]

So what sort of numbers (yearly intake) are we talking about.

With all the experienced drivers on the hold file, no signifcant expansion (mainline) in the forseble future, and a willing and able supply waiting in the regionals, what's the point?

Is it an insurance policy against future shortages, because that hasn't worked out too well for some other operators, or is it merely a PR exercise.

Thoughts?

[PLovett]

KRUSTY,

I believe your comment about future insurance is correct. I know its been said many times before but I do think there will be a shortage of pilots in the not too distant future. All the statistics from around the world are pointing to a downturn in aviation training, very noticeably here and in the US.

It wouldn't take much of a demand to soon clean out the upper ranks of the regionals ( a la 2007) and there won't be the numbers coming through to quickly replace them. The immediate answer would be better terms & conditions but I can't see that happening either. Cadets schemes is the other answer.

Now what standard of training will they get?

[pull-up-terrain]

The thing is, airlines based in Australia have very few planes on order and I can't really see a shortage of pilots anytime soon. Sure qantas/jetstar have 787's orders but that isn't really for expansion. I would be surprised if there will be any cadetships with any aus based airline in the next few years. When was the last jetstar cadetship ran?

[KRUSTY 34]

There's TT of course, but that's dependent on the ACCC, and then VA's ability to expand them?

Bit academic though, as to the best of my knowledge there are no plans for a Cadetship there.

Although, TT rapidly expands, sucks drivers out of the ATR gig, but VA has control of TT as well as, I assume the recruitment process!

Can of worms! Stay tuned.

[yep_ok_whatever]

A few questions

While the company still maintains there will no upfront costs for cadets, there has been some shift in the employment conditions for cadets since our last briefing in February. Cadets will be employed by Virgin Australia on individual contracts from the start of their cadetship, and will be paid a training salary of just less than $50,000. At the successful completion of the 18 month program, the cadets will be guaranteed employment on the ATR at Skywest on a secondment arrangement from Virgin Australia, but on Skywest terms and conditions, except that they will be paid 15% less than a Skywest First Officer ATR salary for a period of time.

So, am I too assume that the 55 weeks at FTA makes up 12 months of the 18 month programme or is the above qoute incorrect?

In addition am I correct in assuming that whilst down at FTA, cadets will be getting a $50,000 salary?

And may I be so bold to ask what is the going rate for a Skywest FO?

[sled_driver71]

As far as I can tell Skywest pilots do not operate on individual contracts so the cadets will have to operate under their EBA, earning the same as a first year FO?

Which is around $65000.

[always inverted]

You said it right there... Skywest pilots..., so I guess until you have finished the cadetship, you will be employed with VA on circa 50k, THEN you would move tho the Skywest eba...

[neville_nobody]

They would have to negotiate a new EBA with some clause for the cadets. Failing that I can't seem them undercutting the present one. If it went to court it would never get up.

[KRUSTY 34]

Jetstar tried that caper with their Cadetship. Ended in tears for JQ management.

Hopefully VA will prove to be a little more enlightened!

[The Kelpie]

Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34

Jetstar tried that caper with their Cadetship. Ended in tears for JQ management.

Hopefully VA will prove to be a little more enlightened!

Yes it did, most of the HR people involved have moved onto pastures new..... or were they shown the door as the sacrificial lamb?

I see the Virgin Cadetship going the same way. As has already been said i have it on good authority that there is no cadet classification in the new VA EBA that has been voted up. I wonder whether that was deliberate?? Hmmm!!

Perhaps someone from the Afap could answer that one, or disclose whether they knew about this little arrangement??

Secondment to Skywest or not they should be entitled to terms as per the EBA covering Virgin Australia as at the end of their year in Adelaide they are only seconded to Skywest and not actually employees of Skywest.

Under a secondment they should still receive a salary from Virgin Australia as their employer with VA recovering the salary by charging Skywest by invoice. In other words they are simply 'on hire' to Skywest.

I have done a little digging, as I do, and found out that the cadets are receiving a salary, have full staff benefits (staff travel) etc. seniority??

At $50k per year for an unqualified cadet this would be higher than the award wage for a grade 2 single instructor. Anyone know if FTA pay the award? If so it is a bit of a joke when the cadets are paid more than their qualified instructors!!

More to Follow

The Kelpie

[Goat Whisperer]

Kelpie,

If cadets make it to the VAA (domestic) jet fleet within the 3 year span of the newly minted EBA they will be paid exactly what any other FOs get. By virtue of not outlining a pay scale specifically for cadets they get paid the EJet/737 wage. Potentially minus 15k in first year due endo cost.