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Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013

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Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013

Old 9th Jan 2013, 06:16
  #301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 39
Andrewa,

Join the RAAF.

I did.

If you pass pilots' course, you won't regret it.
benjam is offline  
Old 9th Jan 2013, 10:40
  #302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 141
Tell that to all the EasyJet cadets who fly into major European hubs on their first job in an A320. Flying a Dash or ATR into a East coast port has no comparison.
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 22:56
  #303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: DSS-46 (Canberra Region)
Posts: 734
Smile

Back on topic, thanks. This thread is specifically about a particular airline's cadet program - not the merits or otherwise of pursuing same.

THAT has been debated ad nauseam on other threads
Tidbinbilla is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2013, 09:48
  #304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne
Age: 37
Posts: 3
Hi there! I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an idea of how many cadets they are looking to recruit in 2013?

2) In terms of the candidates themselves, do you think it will help if applicants are employed at the time of the intake? The reason I ask is because I finished working a few months ago and I'm currently continuing on to finish my PPL. I was wondering if I should start applying for other jobs (not in avaiation but engineering) in the meantime or wait till the applications open but then I'll have to declare that I'm unemployed at that moment.

I think the easiest way to answer this is to ask if anyone knows the current set of cadets and whether they were employed at the time of their application.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 20th Mar 2013, 12:58
  #305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Queensland
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Rumour heard this week was that 1 of the cadets has not met current standard and is no longer part of cadet program.

Not wanting to create a cadet bashing thread but if true it is disappointing after all the selection criteria by VA to have an unsuccessful cadet.
speedjet is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2013, 13:59
  #306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
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it is disappointing after all the selection criteria by VA to have an unsuccessful cadet
The nature of cadetships is that they mostly involve taking someone who has no flying experience previously. The company can apply all of the tests it likes in selecting their cadets but they are not infallible and there will always be some who don't make the grade. It is the same for the RAAF and self-funded students.
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Old 20th Mar 2013, 22:38
  #307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
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So what sort of numbers (yearly intake) are we talking about.

With all the experienced drivers on the hold file, no signifcant expansion (mainline) in the forseble future, and a willing and able supply waiting in the regionals, what's the point?

Is it an insurance policy against future shortages, because that hasn't worked out too well for some other operators, or is it merely a PR exercise.

Thoughts?
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Old 20th Mar 2013, 23:18
  #308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
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KRUSTY,

I believe your comment about future insurance is correct. I know its been said many times before but I do think there will be a shortage of pilots in the not too distant future. All the statistics from around the world are pointing to a downturn in aviation training, very noticeably here and in the US.

It wouldn't take much of a demand to soon clean out the upper ranks of the regionals ( a la 2007) and there won't be the numbers coming through to quickly replace them. The immediate answer would be better terms & conditions but I can't see that happening either. Cadets schemes is the other answer.

Now what standard of training will they get?
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Old 22nd Mar 2013, 04:39
  #309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Australia
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The thing is, airlines based in Australia have very few planes on order and I can't really see a shortage of pilots anytime soon. Sure qantas/jetstar have 787's orders but that isn't really for expansion. I would be surprised if there will be any cadetships with any aus based airline in the next few years. When was the last jetstar cadetship ran?
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Old 22nd Mar 2013, 05:11
  #310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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There's TT of course, but that's dependent on the ACCC, and then VA's ability to expand them?

Bit academic though, as to the best of my knowledge there are no plans for a Cadetship there.

Although, TT rapidly expands, sucks drivers out of the ATR gig, but VA has control of TT as well as, I assume the recruitment process!

Can of worms! Stay tuned.
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Old 10th Apr 2013, 12:40
  #311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
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A few questions

While the company still maintains there will no upfront costs for cadets, there has been some shift in the employment conditions for cadets since our last briefing in February. Cadets will be employed by Virgin Australia on individual contracts from the start of their cadetship, and will be paid a training salary of just less than $50,000. At the successful completion of the 18 month program, the cadets will be guaranteed employment on the ATR at Skywest on a secondment arrangement from Virgin Australia, but on Skywest terms and conditions, except that they will be paid 15% less than a Skywest First Officer ATR salary for a period of time.
So, am I too assume that the 55 weeks at FTA makes up 12 months of the 18 month programme or is the above qoute incorrect?

In addition am I correct in assuming that whilst down at FTA, cadets will be getting a $50,000 salary?

And may I be so bold to ask what is the going rate for a Skywest FO?
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 00:47
  #312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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As far as I can tell Skywest pilots do not operate on individual contracts so the cadets will have to operate under their EBA, earning the same as a first year FO?

Which is around $65000.
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 01:48
  #313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
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You said it right there... Skywest pilots..., so I guess until you have finished the cadetship, you will be employed with VA on circa 50k, THEN you would move tho the Skywest eba...
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 02:21
  #314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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They would have to negotiate a new EBA with some clause for the cadets. Failing that I can't seem them undercutting the present one. If it went to court it would never get up.
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 06:55
  #315 (permalink)  
 
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Jetstar tried that caper with their Cadetship. Ended in tears for JQ management.

Hopefully VA will prove to be a little more enlightened!
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 08:02
  #316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34 View Post
Jetstar tried that caper with their Cadetship. Ended in tears for JQ management.

Hopefully VA will prove to be a little more enlightened!


Yes it did, most of the HR people involved have moved onto pastures new..... or were they shown the door as the sacrificial lamb?

I see the Virgin Cadetship going the same way. As has already been said i have it on good authority that there is no cadet classification in the new VA EBA that has been voted up. I wonder whether that was deliberate?? Hmmm!!

Perhaps someone from the Afap could answer that one, or disclose whether they knew about this little arrangement??

Secondment to Skywest or not they should be entitled to terms as per the EBA covering Virgin Australia as at the end of their year in Adelaide they are only seconded to Skywest and not actually employees of Skywest.

Under a secondment they should still receive a salary from Virgin Australia as their employer with VA recovering the salary by charging Skywest by invoice. In other words they are simply 'on hire' to Skywest.

I have done a little digging, as I do, and found out that the cadets are receiving a salary, have full staff benefits (staff travel) etc. seniority??

At $50k per year for an unqualified cadet this would be higher than the award wage for a grade 2 single instructor. Anyone know if FTA pay the award? If so it is a bit of a joke when the cadets are paid more than their qualified instructors!!

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The Kelpie

Last edited by The Kelpie; 11th Apr 2013 at 11:30.
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 08:20
  #317 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Kelpie,

If cadets make it to the VAA (domestic) jet fleet within the 3 year span of the newly minted EBA they will be paid exactly what any other FOs get. By virtue of not outlining a pay scale specifically for cadets they get paid the EJet/737 wage. Potentially minus 15k in first year due endo cost.
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 08:34
  #318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by Goat Whisperer View Post
Kelpie,

If cadets make it to the VAA (domestic) jet fleet within the 3 year span of the newly minted EBA they will be paid exactly what any other FOs get. By virtue of not outlining a pay scale specifically for cadets they get paid the EJet/737 wage. Potentially minus 15k in first year due endo cost.
You would certainly like to think so!!

My comments were surrounding their status as employees of VA during the 1 year Cadetship and the following 3 year period flying ATR72 aircraft. These are the facts as I understand them:

Whilst on course in Adelaide they are currently employees of Virgin Australia with full staff benefits. Job Title: Cadet Pilot.

When they go to Skywest to operate the ATR 72 they SHOULD still be employees of Virgin Australia that are contracted out to Skywest. The point being is that under an arrangement such as this (ie secondment) the EBA of the employer should prevail. Under a secondment arrangement Skywest IS NOT the legal employer. The cadet will not be an employee of Skywest, they will be a secondee and should continue to be paid by Virgin Australia.

All pilot recruitment should be under the new EBA...without exception. This is the same situation with Jetstar putting cadets onto individual group contracts and now forced to put them under the Jetstar EBA.



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The Kelpie

Last edited by The Kelpie; 11th Apr 2013 at 08:50.
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 11:13
  #319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Under the Skywest EBA, only skywest pilots can fly skywest aircraft so your point only works on the virgin side of the fence Kelpie!
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Old 11th Apr 2013, 11:23
  #320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by Chadzat View Post
Under the Skywest EBA, only skywest pilots can fly skywest aircraft so your point only works on the virgin side of the fence Kelpie!
Hmmm interesting.

I wonder what will happen when Skywest becomes part of the group (like qantas/Jetstar)?

On completion of the Cadetship maybe the cadets will have to resign from VA and lose all of their service and benefits/seniority to take up employment with Skywest..... Then in three years time resign from Skywest and lose all benefits/seniority again to retake up employment with Virgin.

I will watch with great interest how this one is played.

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The kelpie

Last edited by The Kelpie; 11th Apr 2013 at 11:25.
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