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Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013

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Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013

Old 29th Oct 2012, 04:33
  #261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne
Age: 37
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Oh wow, you got through to testing without a PPL!? If you don't mind me asking, what's your age, education and flight experience level? Do you already have a Class 1 medical? I think a lot of us are curious on how people were selected. I'm also reading about how applicants with average high school scores have also progressed.
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Old 29th Oct 2012, 12:34
  #262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Australia
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Cadetship confusion. Please Help!

I completed my Business degree last year with very good marks in all my subjects (Final GPA of 3.1). Over the past few months I have been flying once a week at the Central Coast Aero Club in Warnervale and now have 12 hours flying experience. I completed my Pre-solo exam a few weeks back and my instructor has indicated I am ready to go solo. The weather hasn't been great the last few times I have gone flying so I am yet to go solo. Weather permitting; I plan to go solo this Wednesday.

I intend on applying for the next round of cadetships with Cathay Pacific, Virgin Australia and Jetstar. I anticipate that my Uni marks, flying experience and passion will be sufficient to be seriously considered. In the mean time, I would like to keep flying and get my PPL however I am uncertain if it is worth getting my PPL if I will have to go through the whole process again (assuming I am accepted into a cadet program). My parents have said they will support me to get my PPL as long as I contribute also. If I do continue my training and get my PPL it will mean that I will have to pay for part of my PPL training, all of my cadetship training (if I get in) and also repay my uni degree loan which is $27k.


So my question is: Do you think having my PPL will set me above the rest when it comes to getting selected for a regular cadetship, or do you think I should complete my student training and then stop flying pending acceptance into a cadetship?

Please help!
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Old 29th Oct 2012, 21:54
  #263 (permalink)  
Keg

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Lightbulb

It's going to be hard for any contributor on PPRuNe to offer you an opinion as to how Virgin views a PPL on application. They may think it's great, they may think it's too much experience for what they're going to do.

What I can tell you is that even if you have to redo some of your training during the cadetship this isn't a bad thing. I did the QF cadetship having already done my PPL. Instead of the 30ish hours required to get to the GFPT equivalent test back then I did about 15 but it was mostly consolidation rather than learning afresh. That's not to say that I didn't learn anything on those flights- quite the contrary. Rather the learning was gaining confidence in the operation or modifying slightly something i did to conform to the 'airline standard' that was we were supposedly being taught. I certainly appreciated going back to the basics and really refining my operation and it gave me great confidence in some things that previously I'd been a bit cagey about. Similarly, instead of the 9 Navs in the syllabus I did 4- all great fun- and I learned quite a bit in those that made me a more confident aviator.

So best of luck making the decision. Possibly only hindsight will show you which decision was the 'right' one.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 13:52
  #264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bedrock
Posts: 38
ChubbyPilot
Oh wow, you got through to testing without a PPL!? If you don't mind me asking, what's your age, education and flight experience level? Do you already have a Class 1 medical? I think a lot of us are curious on how people were selected. I'm also reading about how applicants with average high school scores have also progressed.
I can't see much harm in answering those questions, so here it is:

Age: Under 25
Education: Tertiary ed
Flight experience: TIF (aka none)
Class 1 Med: None
ARN: None
ASIC: None

However, I know my theory.

One of the young men also attending that I talked to had no aviation knowledge what so ever. I'm not sure how he fared.

wing boy
So my question is: Do you think having my PPL will set me above the rest when it comes to getting selected for a regular cadetship, or do you think I should complete my student training and then stop flying pending acceptance into a cadetship?
Sorry, but I honestly do not know.

The people that I met on the assessment day were sort of a mixed bag. Some had PPLs, some were progressing towards CPL, some had a few hours, one had some pretty good hours built up over a very long period, some had no hours (yours truly ).

wing boy
If I do continue my training and get my PPL it will mean that I will have to pay for part of my PPL training, all of my cadetship training (if I get in) and also repay my uni degree loan which is $27k.
Virgin's Cadetship uses VET-FEE HELP if that helps.

Last edited by TequilaMockingbird; 30th Oct 2012 at 14:29.
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Old 31st Oct 2012, 00:51
  #265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 254
I was talking to a Virgin Australia Aircraft Engineer who is 23 years old with no flying experience who made it to the assessment day. He said that most of the people he came accross on the assessment day were Virgin employee's (mainly fligtht attendants, people who worked in the flight ops department, and aircraft engineers).

Im not sure what type of academics they are looking at, because he made it to the assessment with a year 12 UAI of 65.

My son applied (currently in year 12) but got an email from a HR manager saying he wasnt allowed to apply because he had not finished year 12 yet.
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Old 26th Nov 2012, 05:31
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/sa-business-journal/eight-new-cadets-to-train-for-virgin-airlines-through-adelaides-aviation-school-flight-training-adelaide/story-e6fredel-1226524224981

Interesting
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Old 26th Nov 2012, 06:02
  #267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
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I'm sure I've seen this lucky young lady somewhere before! Let me think....

If it's the young lady I am thinking of, she was already a Virgin Australia employee and am sure she has served me my in flight beverage on a couple of occasions. - note added 9/7/13. It is not the girl I was thinking of as she served me a beverage on my virgin Australia flight a few weeks back and also this morning!!! I apologise sincerely for being mistaken.

Here's a quote from the news story
"It also give the trainees an opportunity that's not been out there.

"We want people to be able to become Virgin Australia pilots no matter what your socio-economic background is."
....even if you can already fly!!!

Seems a little digging for a bone has revealed that the person in the picture has already done a fast track pilot training course with Griffith University and I am informed was a previous cadet on the Jetstar Cadetship at Oxford Aviation in Moorabbin between feb and Nov 2011. Here was The Kelpie thinking this was a genuine ab-initio course. Hmmmm.

Nothing like keeping it in the family!!

It will be interesting to see if the success of these cadets is used to justify the use of ab initio cadet ships in Australia. Of course they will be a success the cadets can already fly!!

More to Follow

The Kelpie

Last edited by The Kelpie; 9th Jul 2013 at 10:57.
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Old 2nd Dec 2012, 16:08
  #268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gold Coast
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At the assessment day I attended I found the same sort of thing. I remember talking to two hostess', and a few pit staff. I do believe I was the youngest at 19, but there was a 36 year old applying as well. My experience mainly consists of gliding and ultra lights, but I did find majority had a PPL.
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Old 6th Dec 2012, 09:18
  #269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Queensland
Age: 27
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Seems a little digging for a bone has revealed that miss Perrow has already done a fast track pilot training course with Griffith University and I am informed was a previous cadet on the Jetstar Cadetship at Oxford Aviation in Moorabbin between feb and Nov 2011
Can someone explain to me how this would have worked out for miss perrow? I guess she must have been an advanced entry J* cadet if she has done some flying at Griffiths University..going from flying training to a cadetship then to another "ab-inito" cadetship? I am a bit lost
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Old 6th Dec 2012, 15:40
  #270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: aviation heaven, australia
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Virgin Australia = Nepotism = jobs for the boys/girls. It has been and will be proven over and over again. Why waste your time, money and energy.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 03:22
  #271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Socio economic background?

As far as I know there are over a dozen flight training organisations around Australia that will put your whole flying bill on Fee Help. I don't see how disadvantage plays into it anymore. Some of them don't even require completion of Yr12. They might be charging 20% more than non fee help schools but that's the nature of the beast.

For everyone out there saying that taking on six cadets for the scheme is a waste of time should just hold on a bit. This is probably being viewed as a trial scheme at the moment and if it proves successful, you will see a lot more people coming into the Virgin Group this way. Qantas had cadets and now Virgin does too!

I think its just a way to keep a stable workforce on the ATR 'cause after 5 minutes in the turbo prop the DEFO's will be screaming for a 738
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 03:41
  #272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
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As far as I know there are over a dozen flight training organisations around Australia that will put your whole flying bill on Fee Help.
What they are doing is not allowed under the rules concerning eligibility for VETFEE funding. The following is an extract from the VETFEE providers handbook

3.3 Eligible unit of study

An eligible VET unit of study is a unit of study undertaken as part of a VET course of study. The VET course of study must meet the course requirements for VET FEE-HELP assistance [HESA, Schedule 1A clause 45].

An entitled student can only access VET FEE-HELP assistance for VET units of study that make up the minimum requirements to be awarded the qualification. If an entitled student enrols or undertakes VET units of study that are over the minimum requirement for the course they cannot access VET FEE-HELP assistance for those units [HESA, Schedule 1A clause 45A].

Including all or part of lower level qualifications within a VET course of study cannot be used as a means of creating an entitlement to VET FEE-HELP assistance for students.

A student is not entitled to VET FEE-HELP assistance for VET units of study where the student is enrolled in a non-VET course of study, such as a certificate I, II, III or IV level course. These VET qualifications must not be subsumed into higher level courses to enable the granting of VET FEE-HELP assistance.

VET FEE-HELP assistance is only available for:

VET courses of study: o VET diploma; o VET advanced diploma; o VET graduate certificate; and o VET graduate diploma

VET units of study that make up the minimum requirement for the student to receive the qualification

VET FEE-HELP assistance is not available for units of study:

where the student is doing more than is needed to receive the qualification;

that are not a part of the diploma or above qualification; and

that are part of a lower qualification, i.e. Certificate I, II, III or IV.
The only part of the flying that is eligible for VETFEE funding is the training specifically for the Command Instrument Rating. The Regulations and the handbook make it quite clear that all other flight training is not eligible to be funded in this way.

This is probably being viewed as a trial scheme at the moment and if it proves successful, you will see a lot more people coming into the Virgin Group this way
Agree, but it will always be a success if they fill it with cadets that already have substantial flying experience and are simply doing, and paying for the majority of their flying training s second time. In order to make an informed view as to whether this ab-initio cadet ship is a success the should have selected true ab-initio cadets, or maybe that is the whole point!!!

Last edited by The Kelpie; 7th Dec 2012 at 03:46.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 05:07
  #273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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A small cadet program allows airlines to ramp up to a big one quickly if a pilot shortage occurs again or there is large expansion for one reason or another.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 06:45
  #274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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I think if you can

Kelpie,

I think if you enroll in a Uni based flight training program like the one at RMIT you can get most of the cost put on to either HECS-Help loan or FEE help loan.

From the RMIT website.

Full-fee place
If you are offered a full-fee place you are required to pay a tuition fee that covers the full tuition costs of your program. These vary according to each program and are adjusted annually. Only students who are Australian citizens, New Zealand citizens or hold an Australian permanent resident visa are eligible for a domestic full-fee place. Other students may be offered a place as an onshore international student.


FEE-HELP
FEE-HELP is an optional loan scheme that assists eligible students to pay all or part of their tuition fees. Associate Degree in Aviation applicants who are Australian citizens or holders of a permanent humanitarian visa are eligible to apply for a FEE-HELP loan.

I have a strong suspicion that tuition fees means flight training fees

Last edited by pilotchute; 7th Dec 2012 at 06:46.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 09:17
  #275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
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Pilot chute

Hecs help is not the same as fee help. Different Rules!!

VA cadet ship incorrectly uses FEE HELP to fund all aspects of training post PPL.

Virgin cadets will graduate their diploma of aviation (instrument flight operations) with a PPL with a MECIR on it. Immediately after the MECIR is achieved and after all of the VETFEE funding has been drawn down by FTA the cadets will be entered as 'Graduated' in the Government Computer system thus ending the governments interest in that individual and the course. The cadets will then immediately after sit a Commercial flight test (a cert iv qualification). The commercial flight test is not done prior to the mecir because that would make it too obvious that cert iv training was being carried out, and nested within the diploma level qualification where it has no place. Where is the commercial training you ask? Where is the commercial hour building? where is the fifty hours
Cross country command aeronautical experience required to be eligible for a CIR accrued? yes you guessed it, hidden in the instrument rating course away from the government auditors who sign off VETFEE eligibility.

Seriously, what place has solo cross country and dual commercial VFR Nav training have in an instrument rating course? By its very nature cir training is all dual and the enroute Nav should be done under the ifr rules and not VFR.

Remember:
Including all or part of lower level qualifications within a VET course of study cannot be used as a means of creating an entitlement to VET FEE-HELP assistance for students.


VET FEE-HELP assistance is only available for:

VET courses of study: o VET diploma; o VET advanced diploma; o VET graduate certificate; and o VET graduate diploma

VET units of study that make up the minimum requirement for the student to receive the qualification

VET FEE-HELP assistance is not available for units of study:

where the student is doing more than is needed to receive the qualification;

that are not a part of the diploma or above qualification; and

that are part of a lower qualification, i.e. Certificate I, II, III or IV.
Substantial amounts of money are no doubt being incorrectly and possibly illegally drawn down from the government scheme. I say illegally as eligibility for VETFEE assistance is included in the Higher Education Support Act 2003, part of the laws of Australia.

To be honest I am surprised that Virgin Australia and particularly Mr Borghetti, a man who I view as having the upmost integrity and ethics, is having anything to do with this scam!

Last edited by The Kelpie; 7th Dec 2012 at 09:35.
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 11:52
  #276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Guys, probably a good idea to hold back on the public character assassination and personal attacks aimed at the said female cadet on this forum. Its probably inappropriate to splash her picture across these pages followed by negative comments about work ethic and nepotism etc. Remember the defamation laws in this country?

Last edited by traindriver33; 7th Dec 2012 at 11:56.
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Old 8th Dec 2012, 02:09
  #277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wherever the job takes me...
Posts: 312
...What Traindriver said.

I never got any of the so-called "lucky breaks" in my career that these cadets do. I did it the hard way like many others out there. That said, I don't begrudge anyone for having the good fortune to enjoy a meteoric rise to stardom. Rather than focus your angst on the aforementioned young woman - & various other individuals who are simply seizing an opportunity that many of us never had - why not focus on the pitfalls of the system instead. Then again, don't. We've heard it all before.

Some people have a knack for landing on their feet & getting all the lucky breaks. Many don't. Life's a bitch. Get over it.

Last edited by The Bunglerat; 8th Dec 2012 at 02:13.
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Old 8th Dec 2012, 03:30
  #278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Exactly how has this individual been defamed ?? They could help themselves substantially by getting rid of that facebook page.
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Old 9th Dec 2012, 21:52
  #279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Seriously, what place has solo cross country and dual commercial VFR Nav training have in an instrument rating course? By its very nature cir training is all dual and the enroute Nav should be done under the ifr rules and not VFR.
Pretty common at all the schools that do an IR before the CPL. You need 50 (could be wrong there) PIC before sitting the test, so this needs to be done. You also need to do the night experience if you want to be able to use the MECIR to it's full extent without already have a NVFR.

Kelpie, with this and your words about one of the cadets I feel you are jumping at shadows. I love your work but take a breath, this is certainly an improvement on J*.

Last edited by mcgrath50; 9th Dec 2012 at 21:53.
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Old 9th Dec 2012, 22:22
  #280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
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McGrath

I agree it is an improvement on Jetstar.

The comment I made which you have raised is accepted, there are circumstances where, for example the 50 hours PIC cross country could be done. My comment was not intended to be general but more in the context of whether the 'hour building' was eligible for FEEHELP funding given that it is not described, and included within the Aviation Training Package document. This document is quite specific about the units that make up the qualification. The regulations concerning eligibility of training for fee help funding exclude anything that is not detailed in the training package.

My other comments which you felt we're jumping at shadows. Well perhaps were a little too detailed however when the statistics get published in a few years about how a initio cadet ships produce cadets that are of a better standard than GA experienced recruits (like REX did at the Senate Inquiry) I would just like for you to be able to research this and find out why - because they all have many more hours than an a initio Cadetship course includes.

Last edited by The Kelpie; 9th Dec 2012 at 22:29.
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