QF Pilots PIA
Qantas Pilots - Why You Will Fail.
A previous thread was closed before I could explain why attitudes expressed by Qantas pilots are counter productive to the cause of their EBA - and their battle in general.
In that thread a passenger was ridiculed, by alleged pilots, for having the temerity to expect regular public transport out of an airline (Jetstar).
And you want the support of the public and wonder why you don't get it?
Keep calling passengers/customers "self loading freight". Keep ridiculing their fears, no matter how inarticulate the manner in which they are expressed. Keep abusing them for having expectations that your airline does not or cannot meet.
I know it must make some of you inadequate tossers feel good to join the push abusing someone who knows less than you.
Come on down Olivia, show the pax what the Skygods really think of them and your battle is won.
"The customer is always right" is a well known dictum. Qantas pilots seem to forget this concept and will pay for it with their careers if they continue that mindset.
It may be unrealistic to expect a potential bride to allow a mere 24 hours to get from Australia to Bali. What you and she do not need are alleged "pilots" telling her she has unrealistic expectations. You are your own worst enemy.
In that thread a passenger was ridiculed, by alleged pilots, for having the temerity to expect regular public transport out of an airline (Jetstar).
And you want the support of the public and wonder why you don't get it?
Keep calling passengers/customers "self loading freight". Keep ridiculing their fears, no matter how inarticulate the manner in which they are expressed. Keep abusing them for having expectations that your airline does not or cannot meet.
I know it must make some of you inadequate tossers feel good to join the push abusing someone who knows less than you.
Come on down Olivia, show the pax what the Skygods really think of them and your battle is won.
"The customer is always right" is a well known dictum. Qantas pilots seem to forget this concept and will pay for it with their careers if they continue that mindset.
It may be unrealistic to expect a potential bride to allow a mere 24 hours to get from Australia to Bali. What you and she do not need are alleged "pilots" telling her she has unrealistic expectations. You are your own worst enemy.
Sunfish, are you serious? At the risk of offending a potential customer, that was a truly idiotic post.
To take anonymous posts on a separate thread about a Jetstar mix-up by posters who did not identify themselves as being Qantas pilots (or pilots at all) and somehow link this to the QF pilots PIA is a desperate stretch.
The thread had nothing to do with QF PIA, the posts had nothing to do with QF PIA and odds are none of the posters were QF pilots. So why would you title your rant Qantas Pilots - Why You Will Fail ????
And finally, before you attack the posters (and now the QF pilot body) for the denigrating language that they used in the posts, perhaps you should look a little closer to home and avoid terms such as:
Some gems from just one of your ~4000 posts. Or is the message, "Do as I say, not as I do"?
To take anonymous posts on a separate thread about a Jetstar mix-up by posters who did not identify themselves as being Qantas pilots (or pilots at all) and somehow link this to the QF pilots PIA is a desperate stretch.
The thread had nothing to do with QF PIA, the posts had nothing to do with QF PIA and odds are none of the posters were QF pilots. So why would you title your rant Qantas Pilots - Why You Will Fail ????
And finally, before you attack the posters (and now the QF pilot body) for the denigrating language that they used in the posts, perhaps you should look a little closer to home and avoid terms such as:
you inadequate tossers
Skygods
your own worst enemy
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Exactly Sunfish, that was totally uncalled for. I think any comments about the bride being silly for only leaving 24 hours are directed at the cancellation rates of LCC's. Yes a passenger should be able to booka flight and expect to get there. The sad reality is that with our current management, this if often not the case.
And seriously...Cut the "skygods" crap. The few of us who really feel that way are almost in retirement now and it's getting a little old.....
And seriously...Cut the "skygods" crap. The few of us who really feel that way are almost in retirement now and it's getting a little old.....
Beer Baron, my post was moved to this thread.
One of the very few things that irritates me on Pprune is the habit of some posters, who purport to be in the air transport industry, to denigrate their customers - calling them "SLF - Self loading freight", sneering at their lack of technical understanding of the art of flying, making fun of their obvious discomfort in turbulence or during emergency procedures, and of course joking when their commercial expectations of the product (air travel) that they purchase are not met. To put that another way, even "Bogans" (as pilots sometimes call LCC pax.) don't expect air travel to be pleasant these days.
Some of these so called "professionals" appear to work for Qantas or Jetstar or at any rate defend such airlines, perhaps trying to obtain a sense of group membership to brighten their otherwise pathetically inadequate existence.
Do you not agree that it is both highly unwise and totally unprofessional to hurl abuse at your customer base on any forum including the Internet?
Do you not also understand that Qantas staff (at least Cabin Crew) were once trained to be highly solicitous of their passengers well being, with a view to providing them with the best possible travel experience - including soothing their fears and dealing with their perhaps unwarranted expectations?
To put it another way, do you regularly hear any other group of alleged "professionals" slagging off at the people who pay their salaries the way pilots do? It is both offensive and stupid - more than that, it is idiotic and the people who do it immediately identify themselves as total wankers.
In the context of the Qantas pilot PIA and EBA, do you not understand that if Olivia or her minions can identify alleged Qantas pilots abusing their pax. of Pprune and publishes their comments then your campaign is dead in the water? Australians like to think of themselves as an egalitarian lot. They don't like it when people sneer at them.
One of the very few things that irritates me on Pprune is the habit of some posters, who purport to be in the air transport industry, to denigrate their customers - calling them "SLF - Self loading freight", sneering at their lack of technical understanding of the art of flying, making fun of their obvious discomfort in turbulence or during emergency procedures, and of course joking when their commercial expectations of the product (air travel) that they purchase are not met. To put that another way, even "Bogans" (as pilots sometimes call LCC pax.) don't expect air travel to be pleasant these days.
Some of these so called "professionals" appear to work for Qantas or Jetstar or at any rate defend such airlines, perhaps trying to obtain a sense of group membership to brighten their otherwise pathetically inadequate existence.
Do you not agree that it is both highly unwise and totally unprofessional to hurl abuse at your customer base on any forum including the Internet?
Do you not also understand that Qantas staff (at least Cabin Crew) were once trained to be highly solicitous of their passengers well being, with a view to providing them with the best possible travel experience - including soothing their fears and dealing with their perhaps unwarranted expectations?
To put it another way, do you regularly hear any other group of alleged "professionals" slagging off at the people who pay their salaries the way pilots do? It is both offensive and stupid - more than that, it is idiotic and the people who do it immediately identify themselves as total wankers.
In the context of the Qantas pilot PIA and EBA, do you not understand that if Olivia or her minions can identify alleged Qantas pilots abusing their pax. of Pprune and publishes their comments then your campaign is dead in the water? Australians like to think of themselves as an egalitarian lot. They don't like it when people sneer at them.
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Sunfish, I agree with many things you have said on this forum, particularly your views on the woes afflicting Qantas Management (which we would both agree are almost entirely of their own doing). I've also never been especially fond of the SLF term, although I do realise that it's more of a nickname than a calculated attempt to be highly derogatory, though it could be seen as either depending on your mood (many nicknames fit into this category).
However the vast majority of QF pilots I've worked with are just decent blokes. At one end of the scale there are a few complete tossers and everyone else knows who they are. On the other end of the scale there are some deadset sincere legends who everybody loves to fly with. Most are just somewhere in between & going about their business.
I might add that in recent weeks I have seen a number of pilots and other crew members go totally out of their way to help passengers when they need it, for which the pax have been extremely grateful. On most of those occasions the screwup was entirely the result of the dysfunctional, under-staffed, and under-resourced corporate entity that Qantas appears to have become under Dixon and Joyce's tenures. Certainly on none of them did the crew have anything to do with the problem at all, though as usual they are left to pick up the pieces.
However the vast majority of QF pilots I've worked with are just decent blokes. At one end of the scale there are a few complete tossers and everyone else knows who they are. On the other end of the scale there are some deadset sincere legends who everybody loves to fly with. Most are just somewhere in between & going about their business.
I might add that in recent weeks I have seen a number of pilots and other crew members go totally out of their way to help passengers when they need it, for which the pax have been extremely grateful. On most of those occasions the screwup was entirely the result of the dysfunctional, under-staffed, and under-resourced corporate entity that Qantas appears to have become under Dixon and Joyce's tenures. Certainly on none of them did the crew have anything to do with the problem at all, though as usual they are left to pick up the pieces.
I'm sure you are right Dutchy, It just gets under my skin when I read these stupid comments - which probably aren't made by Qantas staff anyway even if they are defending the airline.
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The point that Sunfish makes is that it's really easy for one bad apple to spoilt the bunch. Do you think that it matters to the average non-aviation member of the public that the person attacking Olivia, Alan and the rest; and using patronising, insulting language about pax may not in fact be a QF pilot?
Should a punter see some of this, what they may see, or perceive is a professional pilot sitting atop a pedestal calling them (the punter) uneducated, ignorant and/or stupid. They also see the same professional pilot defending PIA, bagging QF management, and they may make a link - correct or otherwise. Never mind that the poster in question works for JQ or Virgin or in GA or sits at a desk playing flight sims - in the mind of the punter, the difference may not be there.
Remember, it's not what people say, it's what the other people hear that's important.
Should a punter see some of this, what they may see, or perceive is a professional pilot sitting atop a pedestal calling them (the punter) uneducated, ignorant and/or stupid. They also see the same professional pilot defending PIA, bagging QF management, and they may make a link - correct or otherwise. Never mind that the poster in question works for JQ or Virgin or in GA or sits at a desk playing flight sims - in the mind of the punter, the difference may not be there.
Remember, it's not what people say, it's what the other people hear that's important.
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It was good to see Paul Murray give QF a serve on his show last night on Sky. Firstly he bagged them on their media ads, whilst at the same time announcing job cuts, then he questioned how they can pay for Dame Edna ads, and at the same time declare they are battling and need to release staff. He got right up em, and left no doubt how he felt. Thanks Paul, any help is appreciated.
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PIA
Took 3 QF flights last week, 1 Int, 2 Dom, did not hear one out of normal announcement.
Its public perspective, QF seem to be winning that one, from talking to people around the traps.
Its public perspective, QF seem to be winning that one, from talking to people around the traps.
Well JMEN, if your Domestic flights were onboard 737 then you wouldn't hear the PIA announcements because the Short Haul pilots are not permitted to take PIA.
Don't know why you didn't hear it on the International. Perhaps it wasn't made because the Captain didn't want it made (there are a few of those around!)
Don't know why you didn't hear it on the International. Perhaps it wasn't made because the Captain didn't want it made (there are a few of those around!)
Last edited by OhSpareMe; 18th Aug 2011 at 17:01.
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Also had 3 QF flights last week, 2 SH and 1 LH SYD-MEL, and definitely got the PA on the LH. Noticed one pax waiting to speak to the Capt or FO as I overheard the pax talking to a FA about the PA at the exit.
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Still making the PAs
I can assure you if you travel on a B767 you'll almost certainly get the PAs. We've made them on every sector I've flown since they were authorised, including one with AJ on board.
Some people may be getting confused with the B737 on domestic, which is not long-haul. I think there are quite a few B737 drivers out there who'd love to make them too, but they're not covered by the PIA and it would be illegal industrial action.
As previously mentioned, there are a tiny minority of long-haul pilots out there who won't make them. Management pilots for example are probably forbidden from making them. They're covered by other company policies including the "Sergeant Shultz" principle. "I see nozzing I hear nozzing I know noz.......zing!"
Some people may be getting confused with the B737 on domestic, which is not long-haul. I think there are quite a few B737 drivers out there who'd love to make them too, but they're not covered by the PIA and it would be illegal industrial action.
As previously mentioned, there are a tiny minority of long-haul pilots out there who won't make them. Management pilots for example are probably forbidden from making them. They're covered by other company policies including the "Sergeant Shultz" principle. "I see nozzing I hear nozzing I know noz.......zing!"
Another reason for "no PA"...
When asked by an F/O about when to make the PA, at least one management pilot has indicated that he would be making "all the PAs" for that trip. 
Nunc est bibendum
An interesting case study. Is any captain permitted to prohibit an AIPA member from engaging in PIA? If it were PIA regarding uniform, tour of duty, etc, then we'd be rightly up in arms about it and the crew member concerned may be in a spot of bother prohibiting a subordinate from taking part. So why is the PA different?