QF Pilots PIA
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Australian Agenda transcript. Some fairly scathing comments allround in there
Interview with Tony Sheldon, head of the Transport Workers’ Union
Sky News Australian Agenda program, 24th July 2011
Peter Van Onselen: You fronted a senate enquiry into the carbon tax on Friday. You weren’t backwards in coming forward with your view, which you have been strong with for a few weeks now. You’re an affiliated union with the Labor Party, you’re a senior union figure within the Labor Party. What kind of reaction are you getting from fellow Labor travellers to your stance on this carbon tax?
Tony Sheldon: I think there’s been a really consistent view about any industry that needs to be covered for the effects of this carbon tax, and the effect on the trucking industry is substantial. What I’ve been doing over the last fortnight is going to meetings of truck drivers in various electorates around the country, and hearing what they’ve got to say about the carbon tax, and particularly on how it affects them in their daily lives and how it’s going to affect them when the carbon tax comes in, particularly in the case of heavy vehicles.
Peter Van Onselen: You’re concerned obviously that over time that’s when it’s going to come in and affect that particular industry. Why were you not able to get what you wanted out of the government in the pre-negotiations to the carbon tax, when areas like the steel industry for example got such a large package as part of the carbon tax package?
Tony Sheldon: The way I view it is the number of industry groups, including some of the biggest players in the road transport industry, have taken a position regarding the carbon tax that they’ll be able to offset costs that hit them in 2014. The way they offset them is by actually passing them on down the supply chain, down the line, giving the responsibility of that extra cost onto another trucking company or an owner driver, a single operator or small fleet operators. What that means in our sector is that the truck driver and the trucks get sweated more and our fatality rates go through the roof yet again.
Jennifer Hewett: Well why were you then so unable to persuade the government of the logic of your position that this is totally unfair on your members?
Tony Sheldon: Extremely frustrated with the government’s position, because on this question of the carbon tax but also industry costs the government has had a consistent position both in opposition taken to two elections that they supported the concept of making sure that there was cost recovery for the trucking industry, whether it be carbon tax or other cost structures, because of the high fatality rates, the high exploitation. And yet the government still hasn’t turned around and tackled that very fundamental issue of the economics of the industry.
Jennifer Hewett: That’s the point. Why were you not able to persuade them of your logic? Is it a problem with the particular minister? Is it a problem with the government just not listening to you?
Tony Sheldon: I think what the government has seen over those five years is engagement. We’ve had 225 truck drivers that have been at parliament at various times meeting MPs of different political persuasions over the last five years – that’s 225 different people, that’s their husbands, wives, kids. What the government seems to have done is got a minister in place now when the decisions are being made, advisory committees have made reports to implement this safe system, this cost recovery system that would deal with the carbon tax. We’ve got a minister who appears to be sitting on his hands.
Paul Kelly: How concerned are you about the ACTU policy of support for the carbon tax? And to what extent do you think there is an underlying mood among trade unionists of concern about the tax?
Tony Sheldon: Can I say quite clearly that the ACTU has had a very strong position in light of the compensation packages of supporting the carbon tax, with the job support mechanisms. At the same time, the President of the ACTU, Ged Kearney, has also very strongly supported on a number of occasions the fact that the trucking industry needs to be dealt with. What’s clear in that is that trade unionists, nearly two million families, have the same concerns that the rest of the community has. But what’s also very clear in our sector is that we’ve seen a 22% reduction of primary vote support for the Labor Party, and we’ve seen that support collapse largely because they believe the government is being seen as a one trick pony.
Peter Van Onselen: So what do you want to see happen here? What would you like the government to do? And wrapped up in that question I guess is what would you like to see happen by the Labor MPs that are supported and are only in parliament because of support from the TWU? I mean Labor MPs aren’t allowed to cross the floor, but what would you like your representatives in the Labor Party in parliament to do?
Tony Sheldon: I think there are actually a lot of people in parliament, both in the Labor Party, the crossbenchers and the conservative side of politics, that actually know that something has to be done about this cost recovery issue and how it affects and is going to be greatly affected by the carbon tax. In 2014 we’ll see $150 to $200 extra a week paid by truck drivers and the companies that employ them and owner drivers. That will send them to the wall or it’ll send them out sweating their truck and sweating their labour further. We have 330 deaths on average a year. We’ve seen a 6% increase last year. They’re only statistics unfortunately to some politicians, but we know that we’ve got support within the Labor Party amongst a number of senators, as we have across the crossbenchers, as we have within the conservative parties.
Paul Kelly: But what about the Prime Minister? I mean have you had a chance to put these arguments to the Prime Minister? And what sort of response have you had?
Tony Sheldon: I’ve had now, along with the Prime Minister, four ministers that have publically spoken out in support of the cost recovery necessity for this industry, who would’ve dealt with the carbon tax issue if it had’ve been put in place substantially. And we’ve got a minister who I would describe as the character out of Weekend at Bernie’s. He’s the dead guy that stands in the middle. He is not able to act, he is not able to perform his duties and he’s not able to carry out what different ministers . . .
Paul Kelly: . . . Who are we talking about?
Tony Sheldon: Chris Evans. The Minister for Workplace Relations.
Jennifer Hewett: That’s a pretty savage indictment of the Minister for Workplace Relations in such a key area, isn’t it?
Tony Sheldon: I think it’s a very substantial indictment on him and it’s a substantial indictment on the fact that the government hasn’t been able to deliver a safe roads package that has broad industry support, has had advisory support, has had academic support, has had support from coroners that these things need to be done and need to be done now.
Peter Van Onselen: He’s also senate leader though, so I mean what are you asking for here? Are you basically asking for his head?
Tony Sheldon: I can say this: I have no confidence in Chris Evans’s capacity to deal with the fundamental industrial relations issues in this country and the undertakings it will make working life in the trucking industry better and safer and for all road users on our roads.
Peter Van Onselen: Is that a widely held view? . . .
Paul Kelly: . . . What about the risk of the union movement? I mean do you think this concern that you’ve just expressed about the Minister is more widely shared?
Tony Sheldon: I have absolute confidence that the view of the Minister by the broad trade union movement is consistent. I also believe that there is . . .
Paul Kelly: . . . You mean consistent with the views that you’ve put?
Tony Sheldon: Certainly consistent with the views that I’ve put. And I also have a strong view, and that is that his competence in running his departments has been deficient, has been inefficient, there’s been a lack of capacity to hold them accountable, as well as there’s been a lack of capacity to hold accountable the arguments that have been placed within the media.
Peter Van Onselen: Have you expressed these views to the Prime Minister?
Tony Sheldon: I’ve expressed these views of recent times, I’ve expressed these views very clearly to the Minister, and I’ve certainly expressed these views to other politicians.
Paul Kelly: But what you’re saying is that you want him removed from this portfolio obviously?
Tony Sheldon: If he cannot carry out his duties, he should not be in the portfolio.
Paul Kelly: But you’re calling for him to be removed presumably? I mean obviously you’ve just declared no confidence in him.
Tony Sheldon: If he’s not able to deliver and to date he has not been able to deliver for the two years he’s held this position a consistent broad support for making our roads safer, truck drivers’ lives better, then he should not be in that position and he should go.
Jennifer Hewett: But you’re saying it’s not just about making the roads safer and for your members, you’re saying that it’s a broad feeling across the union movement that this Minister is no good?
Tony Sheldon: There is a broad feeling that the Minister has real deficiencies in carrying out his responsibilities as a Minister. He has not been able to implement government policy and he certainly has not been able to implement policies that this government has made commitments to.
Jennifer Hewett: On another issue of course, many of the business leaders in this country fear that the whole industrial relations climate is souring, particularly with enterprise bargaining now coming, many of the agreements now coming up. Do you agree that conditions are now risking a return to what they see as the bad old days?
Tony Sheldon: I think this is probably an indicator. We’ve got a Minister who is not able to take up the challenge of those arguments, which are fundamentally incorrect. The actual amount of industrial action that’s been taken under this legislation is again less than under WorkChoices. So when we have comments from people like Leigh Clifford, who’s a well known reactionary to the workforce, and we’re seeing Qantas exporting jobs overseas, we’re seeing them outsourcing work at substantially lower rates of pay, we see them being investigated for using Thai flight attendants on domestic work; equivalent wages that an Australian would get for a day’s pay, they’re being paid similar amounts for a month. We’ve seen a Minister who hasn’t been able to respond to some of the most regressive and unfortunately one of the most aggressive opponents to workplace relations regulation. Quite clearly there are a number of people in the business community that don’t have Leigh Clifford’s views in that field, and it’s critically important that the Minister has the nerve, the tenacity, the ability and the confidence in his portfolio to speak on behalf of the government.
Peter Van Onselen: Tony Sheldon, we are out of time. We appreciate you joining us on Australian Agenda. Thank you.
Tony Sheldon: My pleasure.
Interview with Tony Sheldon, head of the Transport Workers’ Union
Sky News Australian Agenda program, 24th July 2011
Peter Van Onselen: You fronted a senate enquiry into the carbon tax on Friday. You weren’t backwards in coming forward with your view, which you have been strong with for a few weeks now. You’re an affiliated union with the Labor Party, you’re a senior union figure within the Labor Party. What kind of reaction are you getting from fellow Labor travellers to your stance on this carbon tax?
Tony Sheldon: I think there’s been a really consistent view about any industry that needs to be covered for the effects of this carbon tax, and the effect on the trucking industry is substantial. What I’ve been doing over the last fortnight is going to meetings of truck drivers in various electorates around the country, and hearing what they’ve got to say about the carbon tax, and particularly on how it affects them in their daily lives and how it’s going to affect them when the carbon tax comes in, particularly in the case of heavy vehicles.
Peter Van Onselen: You’re concerned obviously that over time that’s when it’s going to come in and affect that particular industry. Why were you not able to get what you wanted out of the government in the pre-negotiations to the carbon tax, when areas like the steel industry for example got such a large package as part of the carbon tax package?
Tony Sheldon: The way I view it is the number of industry groups, including some of the biggest players in the road transport industry, have taken a position regarding the carbon tax that they’ll be able to offset costs that hit them in 2014. The way they offset them is by actually passing them on down the supply chain, down the line, giving the responsibility of that extra cost onto another trucking company or an owner driver, a single operator or small fleet operators. What that means in our sector is that the truck driver and the trucks get sweated more and our fatality rates go through the roof yet again.
Jennifer Hewett: Well why were you then so unable to persuade the government of the logic of your position that this is totally unfair on your members?
Tony Sheldon: Extremely frustrated with the government’s position, because on this question of the carbon tax but also industry costs the government has had a consistent position both in opposition taken to two elections that they supported the concept of making sure that there was cost recovery for the trucking industry, whether it be carbon tax or other cost structures, because of the high fatality rates, the high exploitation. And yet the government still hasn’t turned around and tackled that very fundamental issue of the economics of the industry.
Jennifer Hewett: That’s the point. Why were you not able to persuade them of your logic? Is it a problem with the particular minister? Is it a problem with the government just not listening to you?
Tony Sheldon: I think what the government has seen over those five years is engagement. We’ve had 225 truck drivers that have been at parliament at various times meeting MPs of different political persuasions over the last five years – that’s 225 different people, that’s their husbands, wives, kids. What the government seems to have done is got a minister in place now when the decisions are being made, advisory committees have made reports to implement this safe system, this cost recovery system that would deal with the carbon tax. We’ve got a minister who appears to be sitting on his hands.
Paul Kelly: How concerned are you about the ACTU policy of support for the carbon tax? And to what extent do you think there is an underlying mood among trade unionists of concern about the tax?
Tony Sheldon: Can I say quite clearly that the ACTU has had a very strong position in light of the compensation packages of supporting the carbon tax, with the job support mechanisms. At the same time, the President of the ACTU, Ged Kearney, has also very strongly supported on a number of occasions the fact that the trucking industry needs to be dealt with. What’s clear in that is that trade unionists, nearly two million families, have the same concerns that the rest of the community has. But what’s also very clear in our sector is that we’ve seen a 22% reduction of primary vote support for the Labor Party, and we’ve seen that support collapse largely because they believe the government is being seen as a one trick pony.
Peter Van Onselen: So what do you want to see happen here? What would you like the government to do? And wrapped up in that question I guess is what would you like to see happen by the Labor MPs that are supported and are only in parliament because of support from the TWU? I mean Labor MPs aren’t allowed to cross the floor, but what would you like your representatives in the Labor Party in parliament to do?
Tony Sheldon: I think there are actually a lot of people in parliament, both in the Labor Party, the crossbenchers and the conservative side of politics, that actually know that something has to be done about this cost recovery issue and how it affects and is going to be greatly affected by the carbon tax. In 2014 we’ll see $150 to $200 extra a week paid by truck drivers and the companies that employ them and owner drivers. That will send them to the wall or it’ll send them out sweating their truck and sweating their labour further. We have 330 deaths on average a year. We’ve seen a 6% increase last year. They’re only statistics unfortunately to some politicians, but we know that we’ve got support within the Labor Party amongst a number of senators, as we have across the crossbenchers, as we have within the conservative parties.
Paul Kelly: But what about the Prime Minister? I mean have you had a chance to put these arguments to the Prime Minister? And what sort of response have you had?
Tony Sheldon: I’ve had now, along with the Prime Minister, four ministers that have publically spoken out in support of the cost recovery necessity for this industry, who would’ve dealt with the carbon tax issue if it had’ve been put in place substantially. And we’ve got a minister who I would describe as the character out of Weekend at Bernie’s. He’s the dead guy that stands in the middle. He is not able to act, he is not able to perform his duties and he’s not able to carry out what different ministers . . .
Paul Kelly: . . . Who are we talking about?
Tony Sheldon: Chris Evans. The Minister for Workplace Relations.
Jennifer Hewett: That’s a pretty savage indictment of the Minister for Workplace Relations in such a key area, isn’t it?
Tony Sheldon: I think it’s a very substantial indictment on him and it’s a substantial indictment on the fact that the government hasn’t been able to deliver a safe roads package that has broad industry support, has had advisory support, has had academic support, has had support from coroners that these things need to be done and need to be done now.
Peter Van Onselen: He’s also senate leader though, so I mean what are you asking for here? Are you basically asking for his head?
Tony Sheldon: I can say this: I have no confidence in Chris Evans’s capacity to deal with the fundamental industrial relations issues in this country and the undertakings it will make working life in the trucking industry better and safer and for all road users on our roads.
Peter Van Onselen: Is that a widely held view? . . .
Paul Kelly: . . . What about the risk of the union movement? I mean do you think this concern that you’ve just expressed about the Minister is more widely shared?
Tony Sheldon: I have absolute confidence that the view of the Minister by the broad trade union movement is consistent. I also believe that there is . . .
Paul Kelly: . . . You mean consistent with the views that you’ve put?
Tony Sheldon: Certainly consistent with the views that I’ve put. And I also have a strong view, and that is that his competence in running his departments has been deficient, has been inefficient, there’s been a lack of capacity to hold them accountable, as well as there’s been a lack of capacity to hold accountable the arguments that have been placed within the media.
Peter Van Onselen: Have you expressed these views to the Prime Minister?
Tony Sheldon: I’ve expressed these views of recent times, I’ve expressed these views very clearly to the Minister, and I’ve certainly expressed these views to other politicians.
Paul Kelly: But what you’re saying is that you want him removed from this portfolio obviously?
Tony Sheldon: If he cannot carry out his duties, he should not be in the portfolio.
Paul Kelly: But you’re calling for him to be removed presumably? I mean obviously you’ve just declared no confidence in him.
Tony Sheldon: If he’s not able to deliver and to date he has not been able to deliver for the two years he’s held this position a consistent broad support for making our roads safer, truck drivers’ lives better, then he should not be in that position and he should go.
Jennifer Hewett: But you’re saying it’s not just about making the roads safer and for your members, you’re saying that it’s a broad feeling across the union movement that this Minister is no good?
Tony Sheldon: There is a broad feeling that the Minister has real deficiencies in carrying out his responsibilities as a Minister. He has not been able to implement government policy and he certainly has not been able to implement policies that this government has made commitments to.
Jennifer Hewett: On another issue of course, many of the business leaders in this country fear that the whole industrial relations climate is souring, particularly with enterprise bargaining now coming, many of the agreements now coming up. Do you agree that conditions are now risking a return to what they see as the bad old days?
Tony Sheldon: I think this is probably an indicator. We’ve got a Minister who is not able to take up the challenge of those arguments, which are fundamentally incorrect. The actual amount of industrial action that’s been taken under this legislation is again less than under WorkChoices. So when we have comments from people like Leigh Clifford, who’s a well known reactionary to the workforce, and we’re seeing Qantas exporting jobs overseas, we’re seeing them outsourcing work at substantially lower rates of pay, we see them being investigated for using Thai flight attendants on domestic work; equivalent wages that an Australian would get for a day’s pay, they’re being paid similar amounts for a month. We’ve seen a Minister who hasn’t been able to respond to some of the most regressive and unfortunately one of the most aggressive opponents to workplace relations regulation. Quite clearly there are a number of people in the business community that don’t have Leigh Clifford’s views in that field, and it’s critically important that the Minister has the nerve, the tenacity, the ability and the confidence in his portfolio to speak on behalf of the government.
Peter Van Onselen: Tony Sheldon, we are out of time. We appreciate you joining us on Australian Agenda. Thank you.
Tony Sheldon: My pleasure.
Isn't this "protected industrial action" ? If Qantas are threatening pilots who undertake these PA's by taking the details of the flights in which these PA's are given, then is it really protected? I thought Qantas could find itself in trouble with FWA if people conducting PIA within its guidelines are punished for their actions.
I think the fact that Qantas is concerned that people will need "recovery" from these PA's just shows they have no idea.
Anyone have any numbers on how many people have signed the petition on the qantas pilot website?
I think the fact that Qantas is concerned that people will need "recovery" from these PA's just shows they have no idea.
Anyone have any numbers on how many people have signed the petition on the qantas pilot website?
I hear a Captain was stood down today for having an argument with a fleet manager over the profitability of Jetstar. Good old Qantas management showing there true colours.
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QF Rolling Stopages
With the Engineers/Pilots/Baggage and Ground Staff all cleared for protected industrial action the word on the tarmac is: Mon/Tue engineers stopage, Wed/Thu pilots stopage, Fri/Sat Ground staff baggage handlers stopage. Watch this space...... Sad news IMHO
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RE the PAs, no they're definitely still going. I don't have my PA card yet so I just borrowed the other guy's.
Only complaints we had were from the crew on one sector where the PA didn't come through very clearly, and they were disappointed they didn't hear it.
I must say, CSMs are universally showing a remarkable lack of interest in reporting these non-standard PAs to the company under any circumstances at all!
Only complaints we had were from the crew on one sector where the PA didn't come through very clearly, and they were disappointed they didn't hear it.
I must say, CSMs are universally showing a remarkable lack of interest in reporting these non-standard PAs to the company under any circumstances at all!
Team America,
Please don't wish that on us, we are trying to save our airline from maveric fly by night managers, the loyal staff are working hard in the face of this disbelief.
Vent your anger at Alan Joyce and co but don't wish the demise of our company.
If the rumours are true about "QANTAS Asia", then it is disgusting and I hope the strike action brings the airline down.
Vent your anger at Alan Joyce and co but don't wish the demise of our company.
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Ero-plano wrote,
baggage and ground staff are not "cleared for PIA", it will be weeks before they are eligible to take PIA.
With the Engineers/Pilots/Baggage and Ground Staff all cleared for protected industrial action the word on the tarmac is: Mon/Tue engineers stopage, Wed/Thu pilots stopage, Fri/Sat Ground staff baggage handlers stopage. Watch this space...... Sad news IMHO
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A question to you QF guys/gals:
These PA's are quite a unique, well thought out IR strategy in my opinion. There are some on these forums who disagree.
I haven't heard the PA, but I am assuming it directs people to your website to sign the petition.
My question is; how are you going to measure the success of the PA campaign? Wouldn't it be an idea to have a box to tick on the website that indicated people were directed to the petition by these PA's?
Or are AIPA just happy with total numbers through their website whatever way they happened to find themselves there?
These PA's are quite a unique, well thought out IR strategy in my opinion. There are some on these forums who disagree.
I haven't heard the PA, but I am assuming it directs people to your website to sign the petition.
My question is; how are you going to measure the success of the PA campaign? Wouldn't it be an idea to have a box to tick on the website that indicated people were directed to the petition by these PA's?
Or are AIPA just happy with total numbers through their website whatever way they happened to find themselves there?
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More "action" - AIPA Media Release for today
AIPA provides notice for token actions to ensure compliance with FWA
The Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) has provided Qantas management with notice for tokenistic action in order to „activate‟ the full range of industrial action voted for by 94 per cent of members in a ballot earlier this month.
A single Qantas B747 captain will activate Protected Industrial Action forms 2, 3 and 4a (as set out on the FWA Order) on a flight later in the week. He will do so on the flight by working to rule, placing a ban on extending his tour of duty and not wearing his cap.
Although none of these actions can be expected to cause any disruption whatsoever to Qantas or passengers, they will be undertaken to ensure compliance with the „use it or lose it‟ provisions in the Fair Work Act.
Under the provisions, a union whose members have voted in favour of Protected Industrial Action must enact that action within a 30-day period or risk losing the right to use it after this period.
AIPA Vice President Richard Woodward confirmed that in-flight announcements were the only widespread form of PIA being undertaken by Qantas pilots at the current time. However AIPA intended to have all eight classes of PIA „activated‟ by the end of the 30-day period.
"AIPA is working hard to make the public aware of what the current management is doing to Qantas, while at the same time being extremely mindful of our number one priority: Qantas passengers," Captain Woodward said.
"Pilots are reporting that the brief and positive in-flight announcements are being received extremely well and traffic to our new website, qantaspilots.com.au, is rolling through at a blistering rate, which we‟re extremely pleased with.
"Last night, we provided Qantas with notice regarding a single pilot activating three of our eight possible actions, to make sure that these options are available going forward.
"However, the ideal result - and one I‟m increasingly hopeful of given the public reaction – would be for Qantas management to reconsider their current extreme agenda and negotiate something with pilots which will be of benefit to Qantas passengers and Qantas profits in the long term."
Last week, AIPA provided a similar tokenistic notice to management in order to activate PIA forms 5 and 6 from the FWA Order. This involved a single pilot engaging in a two minute stop work meeting and a two minute work stoppage.
AIPA provides notice for token actions to ensure compliance with FWA
The Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) has provided Qantas management with notice for tokenistic action in order to „activate‟ the full range of industrial action voted for by 94 per cent of members in a ballot earlier this month.
A single Qantas B747 captain will activate Protected Industrial Action forms 2, 3 and 4a (as set out on the FWA Order) on a flight later in the week. He will do so on the flight by working to rule, placing a ban on extending his tour of duty and not wearing his cap.
Although none of these actions can be expected to cause any disruption whatsoever to Qantas or passengers, they will be undertaken to ensure compliance with the „use it or lose it‟ provisions in the Fair Work Act.
Under the provisions, a union whose members have voted in favour of Protected Industrial Action must enact that action within a 30-day period or risk losing the right to use it after this period.
AIPA Vice President Richard Woodward confirmed that in-flight announcements were the only widespread form of PIA being undertaken by Qantas pilots at the current time. However AIPA intended to have all eight classes of PIA „activated‟ by the end of the 30-day period.
"AIPA is working hard to make the public aware of what the current management is doing to Qantas, while at the same time being extremely mindful of our number one priority: Qantas passengers," Captain Woodward said.
"Pilots are reporting that the brief and positive in-flight announcements are being received extremely well and traffic to our new website, qantaspilots.com.au, is rolling through at a blistering rate, which we‟re extremely pleased with.
"Last night, we provided Qantas with notice regarding a single pilot activating three of our eight possible actions, to make sure that these options are available going forward.
"However, the ideal result - and one I‟m increasingly hopeful of given the public reaction – would be for Qantas management to reconsider their current extreme agenda and negotiate something with pilots which will be of benefit to Qantas passengers and Qantas profits in the long term."
Last week, AIPA provided a similar tokenistic notice to management in order to activate PIA forms 5 and 6 from the FWA Order. This involved a single pilot engaging in a two minute stop work meeting and a two minute work stoppage.
