QF Pilots PIA
'aid customer recovery' - as in when the appalling Perry food is wheeled out (at a Perry cost to QF of $1.3m pa because GD's wife 'liked' eating at Rockpool) or the god awful 744 IFE fails again because everyone onboard has the audacity to want to watch what they want - and QF management blame Rockwell despite bein told point blank it would never work as it was only designed for a 767....
or.... or ..... or....
There are ever increasing numbers of villages missing their idiots watching the ongoing QF management train wreck.
Or, more tragically, it is slowly dawning on me that my village is missing its idiot because I am NOT in Qf management.
To my own ongoing detriment I would like to see Qf be successful into the next millennia. Unlike anyone who is in management I SACRIFICE for the common good - and have done for almost 30 years.
Obviously the idiot is me.
Little green men in skirts were shown short shrift in recent european history.
I live in hope - Vive le Resistance!...
or.... or ..... or....
There are ever increasing numbers of villages missing their idiots watching the ongoing QF management train wreck.
Or, more tragically, it is slowly dawning on me that my village is missing its idiot because I am NOT in Qf management.
To my own ongoing detriment I would like to see Qf be successful into the next millennia. Unlike anyone who is in management I SACRIFICE for the common good - and have done for almost 30 years.
Obviously the idiot is me.
Little green men in skirts were shown short shrift in recent european history.
I live in hope - Vive le Resistance!...
Very interestingly I note (thanks packrat) ALL previous CIS log in screen info has been removed. For the uninitiated (hopefully an on the ball journo?) these messages are published for weeks and weeks - you scroll down to where you last viewed to get 'important' info.
For the first time I can remember there is but one lonely message on the vitally important upcoming Pathfinders Lottery - run by Qf aircrew (C-mainly&T) for the benefit of the Royal Institute for deaf and blind children's society. Not a single sentence on the even more vital DAMP courses or Flight Crew Briefings - read management paralytic pissups (ever been berated for nonperformance as a group (mainline) and later had the manager in question throw up on your shoes?) or upcoming engagement survey notifications...
Yes I am angry because YOU are incompetent beyond your understanding. I know how to run companies, YOU do not.
For the first time I can remember there is but one lonely message on the vitally important upcoming Pathfinders Lottery - run by Qf aircrew (C-mainly&T) for the benefit of the Royal Institute for deaf and blind children's society. Not a single sentence on the even more vital DAMP courses or Flight Crew Briefings - read management paralytic pissups (ever been berated for nonperformance as a group (mainline) and later had the manager in question throw up on your shoes?) or upcoming engagement survey notifications...
Yes I am angry because YOU are incompetent beyond your understanding. I know how to run companies, YOU do not.
Last edited by V-Jet; 23rd Jul 2011 at 06:55.
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The crew Intranet still has this non sense on it:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29089753/200...ial_action.pdf
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29089753/200...ial_action.pdf
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This morning we asked senior cabin crew management to explain the RCIS message. The response is that cabin crew management have only issued the message to aid customer service recovery; this message has not been issued to “dob” in PAs supporting AIPA’s campaign of protected industrial action. Cabin crew management have stated that no action will be taken against a CSM who does not report a non-standard PA. However, if there is an issue regarding customer recovery that comes to the attention of cabin crew management from a non-standard PA, that CSM will need to explain why the issue was not reported at the time.
The Captain ultimately has to feel he has the support and trust of his operating crew, knowing the cabin crew have been informed by their bosses to "dob' him/her in (for making a sanctioned PA's under FWA) doesn't provide that trust and is potentially a risk to safety. What a great culture this airline has bred!
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Guys, get a mouthpiece that has some sort of credibility. At the moment you have absolutley nothing as far as the public is concerned. QF management (miss) are killing you. Mr Safe did a good job with his interview and this should be furthered. Distance yourselves from the Engineers Union and follow your own agenda. Good luck
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What part of "we are not asking for a payrise but just to keep Qantas from offshoring our jobs" have you missed?
The pay component is less than CPI.
And the applause given on board since the PA's have been made may prove you wrong...
The pay component is less than CPI.
And the applause given on board since the PA's have been made may prove you wrong...
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Your a busy little poster today Halfpast3bus.....Im struggling to keep up with you! But I do agree on what you've said. I think it's called the Tall Poppy Syndrome. Very alive & well in OZ & NZ.
Unfortunately for QF, the damage has already been done. Too little too late. AIPA is a joke.....
Unfortunately for QF, the damage has already been done. Too little too late. AIPA is a joke.....
The various Pilot unions around the world keep trying to get public backing for the push for better conditions.
This is a good example of how someone falls for a one liner from Qantas and believes it without critical analysis of anything.
THE CLAIM IS ABOUT AUSTRALIAN BASED QANTAS PILOTS FLYING QANTAS AIRCRAFT. The pay claim is 2.5%
You want 180K rather than 150K, while most of your Pax get 60K. Wake Up. They're not interested. They hate you....
Wake Up. They're not interested. They hate you....
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Tankengine, I do apologise for being so blunt & I'm sorry if I've pinched a nerve, but you have to agree that this showdown with management started 10 years ago right? Sunstate, Southern, Eastern, Impulse, Jetstar, Cobham, jetconnect, QF Domestic, QF International? I mean lets be realistic here. Yes I used to work for a QF Regional so I know what its like to be treated by your union.
I have no union in EK so, I keep my head down & my options open. I'm 36 years old & been flying since I was 16. I have 11000 hours & not once has a Union done anything for me. I even had to leave my home country to pursue a career where my skills are rewarded.
I have no union in EK so, I keep my head down & my options open. I'm 36 years old & been flying since I was 16. I have 11000 hours & not once has a Union done anything for me. I even had to leave my home country to pursue a career where my skills are rewarded.
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No worries, good to see people getting on in life [Cadel Evans just won yellow jersey!]
I have never needed either union I have been in for anything major.
Small things have helped, and they have set up fine T&Cs, now is a fight for life in the airline itself.
I too started at 16, I am 47 with nearly 19000 hours and wish to stay in my own country!
I have never needed either union I have been in for anything major.
Small things have helped, and they have set up fine T&Cs, now is a fight for life in the airline itself.
I too started at 16, I am 47 with nearly 19000 hours and wish to stay in my own country!
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Haha!
Well, there really are some tosse.. I mean, topic starters in this world.
Guys really? Are you stuck in the sand or living in a hole on level 60 in some 1970's retro apartment in HK and cant get out?
Move on dudes!
And p.s. Some people really are getting on and enjoying life, just like Cadel, go son!
Well, there really are some tosse.. I mean, topic starters in this world.
Guys really? Are you stuck in the sand or living in a hole on level 60 in some 1970's retro apartment in HK and cant get out?
Move on dudes!
And p.s. Some people really are getting on and enjoying life, just like Cadel, go son!
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I have a question - if the only "demand" from the pilot union is to not off-shore pilot positions, why is Qantas stating other demands from the group (which Qantas cannot afford) including free travel or use of crew rest, higher priority codes, Qantas Club access etc as other demands?
If they're not true, why would Qantas publish these as facts? The unions could easily make a fool out of Qantas for making these statements as false - however they're not.
I've asked this question before on here and have been told they're not true - yet I don't see Barry come on in the media to say these are false and misleading claims?
If they're not true, why would Qantas publish these as facts? The unions could easily make a fool out of Qantas for making these statements as false - however they're not.
I've asked this question before on here and have been told they're not true - yet I don't see Barry come on in the media to say these are false and misleading claims?
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T-Vasis,
I am not on committee or part of team.
As far as I know the company has 80+ "asks"
Union has 6-8 "asks"
These are, and have been, negotiated about for some time.
They are all NEGOTIABLE!
We have one demand, Qantas pilot/Qantas aircraft [or paid as such]
If the company agrees to this, saving the careers of the young guys then dispute would be over.
I am not on committee or part of team.
As far as I know the company has 80+ "asks"
Union has 6-8 "asks"
These are, and have been, negotiated about for some time.
They are all NEGOTIABLE!
We have one demand, Qantas pilot/Qantas aircraft [or paid as such]
If the company agrees to this, saving the careers of the young guys then dispute would be over.
Nunc est bibendum
T-VASIS. Why doesn't the union refute them? Because to explain the detail of the request gets bogged down in a minor argument.
Want to know the truth about it?
We want to be able to purchase QF club access at the 'corporate rate'. We currently don't have it. Most won't bother but some will want it. It doesn't 'cost' the company much but it makes a great headline if they're attacking pilots as being greedy. Currently ADF members and Airservices Australia employees have this facility. Funny that no one accuses them of being greedy. Then again, QF offered it to them, they're using it as an industrial tactic against us.
We intend on withdrawing from the current LSL trip provisions (a free trip for the whole family on certain onload/ upgrade priorities in return for two tickets per year. For some crew this is a step back, for others it's a marginal step up. Qantas costed this as two return tickets to LHR in premium economy (and the full commercial rate for that) and decided that was the 'cost' of the ticket. The reality is that most 767 and A330 drivers would use it to take their kids away with them on a trip and neither of those fleets go to LHR. Very rarely would it displace a commercial passenger and given the lead time that we would be required to book, it would never displace a 'known' passenger unless QF chooses to oversell the aeroplane. This 'ask' came about because the security industry consider our family members to be a security risk and we can no longer utilise the jump seats to get the family away/ home. In return, we no longer have access to the LSL provisions and their unload/ upgrade priorities (which themselves have been diminished over the last few years but you get that).
We actually do want a change to unload/ upgrade categories to return the categories to what they were a few years back. These days you have a recent joiner (as recently as 6 months) in a 'middle management' position- not executive management, not the equivalent of a fleet manager, they may have 1-2 subordinates- who gets unloaded and upgraded ahead of Captains with 20 years service. That didn't occur five years ago and the requested changes in category return us to that point. It doesn't 'cost' the company much, it restores something previously held but diminished by the current management, but it makes a great headline for QF when they publicise it.
The crew rest demand was never a 'demand' per se. It's been re-worded and clarified and is now a non-issue.
As previously pointed out, these aren't 'demands'. They're things that we'd like and have put up for negotiation. So far AIPA have expended significant energy reviewing the 68 Qantas claims but precious little time has been spent by Qantas reviewing AIPAs 6-8 claims (can't remember exact number).
So if you reckon you can condense all those intricacies into a 20 second sound bit then knock your socks off. You'll note that Qantas doesn't bother explaining the nuances of it, they just go with the easy distortion/ lie.
Then again, given your trolling ways, not sure why I bother. i'm sure you'll use this as an excuse to yet again slag off at the pilots.
Want to know the truth about it?
We want to be able to purchase QF club access at the 'corporate rate'. We currently don't have it. Most won't bother but some will want it. It doesn't 'cost' the company much but it makes a great headline if they're attacking pilots as being greedy. Currently ADF members and Airservices Australia employees have this facility. Funny that no one accuses them of being greedy. Then again, QF offered it to them, they're using it as an industrial tactic against us.
We intend on withdrawing from the current LSL trip provisions (a free trip for the whole family on certain onload/ upgrade priorities in return for two tickets per year. For some crew this is a step back, for others it's a marginal step up. Qantas costed this as two return tickets to LHR in premium economy (and the full commercial rate for that) and decided that was the 'cost' of the ticket. The reality is that most 767 and A330 drivers would use it to take their kids away with them on a trip and neither of those fleets go to LHR. Very rarely would it displace a commercial passenger and given the lead time that we would be required to book, it would never displace a 'known' passenger unless QF chooses to oversell the aeroplane. This 'ask' came about because the security industry consider our family members to be a security risk and we can no longer utilise the jump seats to get the family away/ home. In return, we no longer have access to the LSL provisions and their unload/ upgrade priorities (which themselves have been diminished over the last few years but you get that).
We actually do want a change to unload/ upgrade categories to return the categories to what they were a few years back. These days you have a recent joiner (as recently as 6 months) in a 'middle management' position- not executive management, not the equivalent of a fleet manager, they may have 1-2 subordinates- who gets unloaded and upgraded ahead of Captains with 20 years service. That didn't occur five years ago and the requested changes in category return us to that point. It doesn't 'cost' the company much, it restores something previously held but diminished by the current management, but it makes a great headline for QF when they publicise it.
The crew rest demand was never a 'demand' per se. It's been re-worded and clarified and is now a non-issue.
As previously pointed out, these aren't 'demands'. They're things that we'd like and have put up for negotiation. So far AIPA have expended significant energy reviewing the 68 Qantas claims but precious little time has been spent by Qantas reviewing AIPAs 6-8 claims (can't remember exact number).
So if you reckon you can condense all those intricacies into a 20 second sound bit then knock your socks off. You'll note that Qantas doesn't bother explaining the nuances of it, they just go with the easy distortion/ lie.
Then again, given your trolling ways, not sure why I bother. i'm sure you'll use this as an excuse to yet again slag off at the pilots.
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Keg - I simply want to know the facts. I have asked these questions before and was told that these claims were false. You've now proven them correct albeit with some detail around those claims.
If you can evidence for me where I have "slagged off" the pilots, please do so and I'll happily correct any post. As far as I am aware - I've never condemned the pilot group in anyway. Do I agree with the pilot group across all accounts - absolutely not.
Where I don't, I like to add my opinion to the argument. We all come from different backgrounds and skill/qualifications.
If you can evidence for me where I have "slagged off" the pilots, please do so and I'll happily correct any post. As far as I am aware - I've never condemned the pilot group in anyway. Do I agree with the pilot group across all accounts - absolutely not.
Where I don't, I like to add my opinion to the argument. We all come from different backgrounds and skill/qualifications.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0198; 24th Jul 2011 at 02:54.
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Keg has explained it well and I agree that it is folly to refute minor detail or sidebar issues at the expense of the core issue.
Fundamentally however, the key will be to ensure the PIA does not lapse and that every pilot is prepared to back the solid rational and 'punter-relevant' respones to the Company's Aug 24 proclaimation.
Logic says that apart from a 'PR stunt- in kind' agreement of a minor point or two, there is no propensity for any substantive agreement within the next 30-45 days anyway.
Logic also says that AJ is no fool and the August 24 soiree will be used by Q as tyre lever to belt us into submission. Our task is to make sure we keep the pitch rock solid and ensure that any adverse outcomes from this 're-structure' come with a bucketload of personal risk to the well-being and reputation of Joyce and Co.,
Between now and then nothing is gained by even acknowledging the misleading trite B.S. trotted out by Olivia & Co., ....................
(- actually why would we bother even acknowldging them at all - they have zero operational experience and close to the same when it comes to professional cred.)
T-Vasis if you're looking for details then suggest you call AIPA and provide your bonafides.
AT
PS: As for the QClub being overun with staff - actually it seems there are more Managers and Jetstar pax in there than QF pax these days.
Fundamentally however, the key will be to ensure the PIA does not lapse and that every pilot is prepared to back the solid rational and 'punter-relevant' respones to the Company's Aug 24 proclaimation.
Logic says that apart from a 'PR stunt- in kind' agreement of a minor point or two, there is no propensity for any substantive agreement within the next 30-45 days anyway.
Logic also says that AJ is no fool and the August 24 soiree will be used by Q as tyre lever to belt us into submission. Our task is to make sure we keep the pitch rock solid and ensure that any adverse outcomes from this 're-structure' come with a bucketload of personal risk to the well-being and reputation of Joyce and Co.,
Between now and then nothing is gained by even acknowledging the misleading trite B.S. trotted out by Olivia & Co., ....................
(- actually why would we bother even acknowldging them at all - they have zero operational experience and close to the same when it comes to professional cred.)
T-Vasis if you're looking for details then suggest you call AIPA and provide your bonafides.
AT
PS: As for the QClub being overun with staff - actually it seems there are more Managers and Jetstar pax in there than QF pax these days.
Last edited by airtags; 24th Jul 2011 at 03:01.
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You can blame Bob Hawke for calling pilots "overpaid bus drivers" in THAT year, and it has never been forgotten. A insult to both pilots and bus drivers, he is and was, responsible for the denigration of pilots and bus drivers, both who are responsible for the lives of their passengers, its just one is harder than the other. That saying has gone into folklore sadly, and gets wheeled out when required.
Nunc est bibendum
T-VASIS, the Qantas' claims were false. They were completely devoid of context and accuracy. Even in my explanation above I've left out detail that is important- such as the 'free' trip isn't really 'free' (even for the current scheme) as you're still required to pay all taxes and charges. These can amount to MORE than a discounted 'full fare' ticket.
At the end of the day, they certainly weren't the demands Qantas portrayed them to be and so their claims about them is false and incorrect.
Airtags, you're not wrong there!
At the end of the day, they certainly weren't the demands Qantas portrayed them to be and so their claims about them is false and incorrect.
PS: As for the QClub being overun with staff - actually it seems there are more Managers and Jetstar pax in there than QF pax these days.
So if you reckon you can condense all those intricacies into a 20 second sound bit then knock your socks off.
You need to think about how you will present this drastic action in the media for maximum effect before you do it. How it could best be presented to compare with
the 68 Qantas claims
There is no point in mucking around on this one. Tidy up the loose ends at the next negotiation.
