Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific


Old 12th Oct 2011, 12:40
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Gruen Planet, it's up on iview:
ABC iview
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 23:32
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this website Qantas Airways - Airline Review seems to sum up the qantas situation quite well.
the section on corporate culture...

Qantas has long sat on its hands and relied on its flag carrier status to win itself customers, however the travelling public have demonstrated their dissatisfaction by booking on other airlines offering a superior product. The upper echelon of the company is an old boys club, devoid of ideas, initiative or talent where promotion is based on ‘brown nosing’ and knowing the right people. Corruption and incompetence thrive within the company at all levels. Senior management despise the airline’s unionised staff and the airline suffers from an upstairs/downstairs culture. Ordinary business decisions are celebrated as landmark achievements by Qantas’ mediocre managers. Alan Joyce has been accused of ‘Jetstarizing’ Qantas and many aviation commentators now believe he is the wrong man for the job and predict his demise. Qantas' poisonous corporate culture is the root cause for the airlines decline.

the history section is also revealing...

Geoff Dixon, the airline’s antagonistic CEO would have profited $60 million from the transaction and he recommended ‘sell’. A rapid deterioration in the airline’s balance sheet preceded his replacement by the Irish born Jetstar CEO, Alan Joyce, one of corporate Australia’s few openly gay CEO’s.

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Old 13th Oct 2011, 00:01
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The entire review is spot on
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 01:03
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These guys will say anything......How much more does AJ earn compared to the PM?.....
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 01:11
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Wow! This writer is right on the money. It is refreshing to see truth in journalism. It is a very rare commodity these days. Thanks buttmonkey1. Qantas Airways - Airline Review
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 01:52
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Wow! This writer is right on the money. It is refreshing to see truth in journalism.It is a very rare commodity these days. Thanks buttmonkey1. Qantas Airways - Airline Review
Just reading a few other reviews from this site and it seems to be amazingly biased towards Emirates. Maybe the ipods and Qantas club memberships hayven't quite been delivered yet. As for emirates, seems that this airline can't do no wrong.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 02:09
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Emirates - Airline Review

Emirates Airlines is a successful example of Dubai’s growth philosophy: centrally planned capitalism. The emirates visionary ruler Sheikh Saeed bin Maktoum Al Maktoum believed his country should become an international travel hub so needed an airline – so he created one – Emirates. The airline sources the best talent for all areas of management and maintains the highest of professional standards. Emirates’ corporate image remains spotless, its professionalism high and staff generally feel privileged to work for the company.

Here's a more independent view, instead of that lovefest

Emirates Airline Customer Reviews | SKYTRAX
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 02:17
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"Some of the names it’s earned from customers include Onestar, Pornstar and ****star."

how true, rotflmao.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 05:20
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Today's announcement in full..

part 2 (the most interesting for me) he starts claiming how unique he is. Delusions of grandeur me thinks.

This chart doesn't say a lot for these guys... probably why AJ sounded a little desperate with today's announcement, the pilots action today regarding the AGM vote appears to be rattling AJ and for sure LC who is staying behind the scenes again...

AIPA are on the right track in my view.

Last edited by TIMA9X; 13th Oct 2011 at 06:54.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 07:05
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I don't even work for Qantas (or any affiliation) and watching this joke of a person is really aggravating.

"exploring partnerships in Singapore or Malaysia" - good luck with that, bring on the annihilation.....
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 08:07
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Last part of video 1.."I am extremely disappointing..."...

yes Alan..yes you are.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 08:12
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For someone who is apparently a smart guy; Alan has an appalling command of the English language. The CEO's of most Asian carriers speak better English than he does and it is probably their 2nd or 3rd language!

Maybe the Level 6 language requirement should be extended to CEO's as well

Last edited by neville_nobody; 13th Oct 2011 at 08:52.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 18:38
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It's not all over!

In reply to Alan Joyce's press conference yesterday Captain Richard Woodward made some great comments in this video. He came over well, finishing with a challenge for Alan Joyce. What are your real plans for Qantas Mr Joyce? Captain Woodward is right, Joyce is floundering, (when you take a hook out of a fish's mouth, they flap around a bit afterwards) he has indeed sent out mixed messages for months but as we wake up today, nothing is clearer about what direction Qantas is headed as a business other than it's all the staffs fault.

Think about it, what amazing new positive development in Joyce's business plan has evolved since the now famous August 24th announcement which was announced on August 17th?... nothing, zero, zilch, only mixed messages causing industry followers to guess things like, Far Q KL or Singapore? All we know so far is Q has on order 100 odd narrow body NEO aircraft (with sleeper seats to accommodate the Martin Ferguson types) that will compete against the likes of SQ, CX EK etc who all favour modern wide body equipment.. clear as mud, right?

Frankly, it's a mess, everything Joyce and co talk about always ends up feeling like a reduction in service levels, routes, staff whilst the opposition airlines fill the gaps that Joyce's poor decisions produce for them. In business terms it is AJ lead by LC who are "kicking own goals" for the opposition airlines to take advantage of. Virgin's horizons to expand as alliance gets green light

JB must be over the moon, more importantly SQ managers will be rubbing their hands with glee pondering over their next move (new weapons in the armory) to take on the old enemy and arch rival Qantas.

What amazes me about Joyce, his press conference took nearly 30 mins of national TV time (ABC News 24) but he revealed nothing new, moreover he appeared defensive, and if we all take a deep breath and watch the raw footage of the conference again (posted on this thread part 2 reveals a lot) I believe Joyce has damaged the Qantas board and their credibility in managing the airline. Take it from me, many journalists left that room yesterday mumbling "what was all that about Mr Joyce?" more of the same, "he blamed everyone but himself." I believe many journalist would probably nominate 13.10.11. Qantas Sydney airport press conference as the most boring and non conclusive press engagement of the year. When I think about it, I can't remember a CEO of recent times justifying every aspect of his pay details like AJ did yesterday. For me this is a sign that he and his board are worried about getting voted down at the AGM, lets hope they are, it is they who are letting the side down.

This week in media/marketing terms, yesterdays Qantas press conference coupled with guest appearances from GT on sunrise, Martin Ferguson, the News Ltd aviation hacks working overtime, was a demonstration of how powerful the "Qantas Marketing Machine" (QMM) really is.

Please do not blame all the mainstream media. I believe we have seen some great pieces in support (at least going to the trouble to find both sides of the issue) regarding the staffs struggle to be heard ie; SMH, Ten News, Radio 2UE 2SM and the ABC including the new news 24. Believe it or not there has been some good stuff from SKY news as well.

I liked this one from the ABC, the QMM works hard on this story but no one from Qantas would go on air.


The QMM doesn't control all the media outlets, and the fight isn't over, this week was a set back, we learn and move on, but learn from our mistakes. It's all about finding a common simple war cry or slogan with a message for all the Qantas staff unions, start singing from the same song sheet when you get to the name of the song, my working title is "Save our Qantas" suggested to me by one of my sons... You know, it's funny, in the advertising game sometimes the best slogans are the simple ones.

There are many punters out there who don't necessarily care to much about the business side of airlines but would support the pilots, engineers, CCs rampies and bag wrestlers automatically, if you all just said, "Save our Qantas," they know there are problems because they hear it on the news, at the end of the day, they relate to all of you, the workers, or to put it another way, you guys are brand Qantas to the punters, and some of them may have shares.


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Old 13th Oct 2011, 22:37
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"Save our Qantas"

Excellent Summary, Excellent suggestion!!

I think all Unions have got to try and take the PR spin away from "Pay and Conditions" and get the very real and simple message out there into the media and public: "Save our Qantas"!

Let's face it, without Qantas continuing to exist into the future, the "Pay and Conditions" will be totally irrelevant (and let's not be fooled into just hoping that this is not their Real game plan?)
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 22:43
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I think yesterdays events demonstrate that Olivia Wirth is an exceptionally dangerous individual when she gets her act together.

She may present poorly on TV, but remember her main job is the orchestration and manipulation of the mass media to the Qantas 'message'. Yesterday was an a-grade example of this occurring.

It started with Joe Hildebrand at midnight exactly and by 8am the key message "Qantas Pilots earn more then the PM" had resonated across all media outlets. Its still on the SMH online website this morning.

All the usual right wing suspects piled in on message, and we are now familiar with how Martin Ferguson has disgracefully caved in to his big business mates as well.

Don't get me wrong, I am supporting the PIA with every ounce of my energy, but I think that in a number of areas AIPA has got it's strategy dangerously wrong.

To Joyce and his organ grinder (Clifford) ultimately this dispute is not about money. If you read the text of Joyce's many speeches since Nov last year, he almost always mentions something like "We will not allow the unions to dictate how we run the business".

This type of theme (whilst false in fact) is like a red rag to a bull at the big end of town. Groups such as the Business Council of Australia believe Australia should be a thinly failed Plutocracy where the occasional democratic principle inconveniently creeps in. There is no place for worker or individual influence on proceedings

Joyce's peer group, the other big business CEO's, will be rallying around him, make no mistake. Because the issue now is wider then cost, the issue now is the implication that someone other then an executive is allowed to have any sort of control over the business.

Having the Tourism Council, the BCA and now the Labour Party in his back pocket means that if Joyce stays on message he will ultimately prevail.

Joyce is an emotional character. He is prone to inflammatory remarks and clearly sees himself as part of a new generation of union busters that the extreme right wing believes Australia desperately needs. By attacking him and the EXCO personally, AIPA's strategy appears to be to try and break Joyce and cause him to resign.

The problem is though, with the whole Australian business community, and now the government behind them, Joyce and Clifford have basically been given the justification and the green light to run the airline into the ground over the issue of 'union influence'.

Unlike other employees who have a significant emotional investment in the Airline, these two are just happy to use the business as an ideological plaything.

Thats what makes this situation so dangerous. You cannot reason with people who make decisions not based on reality, but on ideology and misguided principle alone.
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Old 13th Oct 2011, 23:12
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Hear what you are saying Mohikan. It's correct that this dispute has nothing to do about pay and conditions, considering the 20% productivity gain AIPA is supposedly presenting to Qantas.
It's a mechanism to deliver an ideology that the ultra right wing has been wanting for a very long time. Unfortunately, for them, the truth that what they have done, and are doing, is the greatest threat to qantas' existence.
Example, yesterday, in some newspapers, Qantas ran ads proclaiming the great benefits and appeal of the A380 and then went onto to say that is why they are reconfiguring 744s with the true flat bed business seats. It was an interesting admission. On the one hand the ad suggested that the A380 is apparently a winner, (and load factors on the A380 would suggest this) but they (the qantas board) then defer 6 A380s for introduction. Why is that?
We know the real reason is the money that was going to be put aside for the A380s is going to be used to fund the 110 A320neos. Thus enabling the shift offshore of a large amount of capital that should have been utilised to continue the build up of the A380 fleet.
Why does qantas want to present the information in this way? Because it's another smokescreen to steer people, read investors, away from the truth. The gameplan in Asia is a big gamble. They are gambling with money leveraged from Qantas to try and create these ventures. The corporate structure of these entities along with the financial setup for the purchase, lease and operation of the aircraft in Asia requires a very stringent analysis. Some would say forensic analysis.
But this current industrial sideshow does nothing to help fix the qantas business. It provides cover for the failing of the qantas board. Qantas is an Australian Airline. It has completely lost focus of that ideal during the last ten years. Qantas employees don't want a payrise, they want a future. They want Qantas to thrive. They don't want this stoush, the board do.
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Old 14th Oct 2011, 00:20
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Congrats to your son. It would look good on a bumper sticker.

I'll buy a few.
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Old 14th Oct 2011, 00:30
  #1178 (permalink)  

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Can I suggest a variation on the theme and have a few slightly different versions. Underneath in slightly smaller letters, you could have:

Qantas flight, Qantas pilot.

Qantas aeroplane, Qantas engineers

Qantas service, Qantas staff. (Struggling to come up with something that fits with the TWU).
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Old 14th Oct 2011, 00:38
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Doesn't Qantas Service, Qantas staff cover the TWU as well as the CS staff? Anything referring to bags will lead to unPC hostie jokes.
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Old 14th Oct 2011, 00:42
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Could we buy them from the qantas Pilots web site?
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