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AUGUST 24th - QANTAS

Old 30th Sep 2011, 07:16
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Qantas has had a chequered recent history, with earnings per share being as high as almost $0.40 in 2007, and as low as only $0.07 two years later. In the most recently completed financial year, Qantas eked out only 11.6 cents per share in earnings. In the past few years, Qantas' return on both assets and shareholders equity has been a good deal less than the average term deposit. It's hard to justify an investment in the Flying Kangaroo.
At the close of another week Q shares hit a new low $1.41, way to go Mr Clifford.

Just adds to the poor effort by management of QF.
Yeah, not a good week for the management, it is all building up to be an interesting AGM, very possible a few nervous executive types may be starting to ask themselves some hard questions. You gota say, it ain't all smooth sailing for them at the moment.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 08:11
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Sorry, but there is no way that these Execs will EVER question what they are doing.

The only issue is the next bonus and extending their employment period.

Meanwhile they continue the phoney war and NEVER have to deal with the issues they should have to deal with.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 09:39
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TIM, The board has all the votes sown up , you blokes are just *issing in the wind . Grow Up , understand that Capital will never let labour take control. Come the revolution!
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 09:46
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Yeah, not a good week for the management, it is all building up to be an interesting AGM, very possible a few nervous executive types may be starting to ask themselves some hard questions. You gota say, it ain't all smooth sailing for them at the moment.
Yeah, well that may be what you think, but I doubt very much it is what the "top end" think. I am willing to bet a slab of beer that there is no criticism of management from the major players. I am willing to bet another slab of beer, that the pay packages of the "top brass" will pass uneffected. All of these top players are in each others pockets. look at who is on who's board ad you will start to see a trend here. I can assure you the guys at the top do not give a toss about what the lower end of town thinks.....Fact
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 10:06
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The top 10 or 20 investors in the company are not going to come to the AGM and heckle the board from the floor.

If they are concerned they will be talking to the board on a daily basis!
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 10:19
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The top 10 or 20 investors in the company are not going to come to the AGM and heckle the board from the floor.

If they are concerned they will be talking to the board on a daily basis!
These investors are not concerned, Why?? because they are not playing with their money, its your money they are playing with....
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 10:32
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.......'hate to admit it-but I agree with you Arnold.

The arrogance and contempt for staff from the "top end" is there every time you see one being "interviewed" (read: ramming their opinions down some impotent journo's throat).

As I will be officially a non staff member for the AGM and officially a SHAREHOLDER (along with a few others' in the same space as me).........we're already preparing our strategy for the meeting.
All very professional of course.

But as a concerned Qantas Shareholder I want CLIFFORD to answer(sic) the obvious questions:

AS A CONCERNED SHAREHOLDER.....

1.HOW CAN YOU AND THE BOARD (James Strong) JUSTIFY GIVING YOUR CEO SUCH A SIGNIFICANT PAY RISE AT A TIME WHEN WE HAVE WIDESPREAD INDUSTRIAL ACTION OVER WORKERS COMPARATIVE PALTRY PAY CLAIMS.?

2. THE SHARE PRICE HAS SEEN A SIGNIFICANT PLUNGE OVER THE PAST 2 YEARS.......DOES THIS NOT REFLECT POORLY ON YOUR CURRENT STRATEGY OF THE "ASIANISATION" OF THE ICONIC AUSTRALIAN BRAND.?

And yeah.....like Arnold suggests ....I bet a slab of beer that I will get JACK ****E as a response because they are basically "untouchable" have told themselves the lie so many times they are right ....they actually believe it.

But as actor Peter Finch once said in that classic movie -Network:

....."I'm as mad a hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"

I do not have to worry about bullying, victimisation,intimidation or threats any longer from Management (as I'm an ex staff member and the $$$$$$ have been banked )

See you at the AGM........its going to be a ball tearer.

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Old 30th Sep 2011, 10:56
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See you at the AGM........its going to be a ball tearer.
Nup, going to be as boring as hell, same ole same ole.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 12:40
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 19:46
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....thanks noip.

It still remains a very ,very powerful metaphor for the "masses" standing up and taking on the "top end"-be that in Govt or Corporate.

I have witnessed many QF (once loyal) staff with the same look in their eyes as Peter Finch..........over the last 8 years who feel totally shafted by this lot.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 21:53
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Flitting back to the advertising, out of interest...where's the product? In an ad campaign, it's usual to feature a picture of the product somewhere. In an airline's case, the product is the aircraft (usually the big comfy seat, though occasionally the type, eg A380), the staff, the food and the destination. For a LCC the secondary product is the price, although the primary product is still one of the aforementioned, i.e. we take you on this A/C with these funky hipster staff to this hard drinkin' destination CHEAP.

The recent Qantas ads haven't featured any photos of the actual product, not even nice pictures of the exotic destinations you can get to on Qantas (which EK are doing at the moment, presumably to detract from the 'we live in a sandpit' reality ). There are exceptions, such as the 1990s LCC deliberately low rent 'witty statement' campaigns a la Freedom and early Virgin, but they were a bit of an era-specific thing when LCCs were new and now look a bit naff (kind of like Savage Garden; cool at the time but What Were We Thinking)?

We've had Nippers, loungerooms with kiddies, yuppies in the forest and now gals in t shirts. All very photogenic but there's no visual indication of what Qantas acutally does. You could argue that they're an icon, but that doesn't stop Vegemite, Chanel, Taj Hotels etc relentlessly ramming piccies of their product down your eyeballs. Even the mighty Coca Cola make sure they include a picture of the drink with the Dynamic Ribbon Device (TM). After all, advertising ain't rocket surgery.

Weird, weird campaign... Maybe an advertising guru could explain?

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 30th Sep 2011 at 22:08.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 22:43
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Worrals - Ever been to a fishing tackle store? Seen all those bright fancy lures and high tech gear? The sale succeeds when the FISHERMAN is hooked and buys some gear. It has little to do with what the fish might think of those lures in the water.
Advertising is the same. So long as you appeal to the dudes making the decisions and they buy your campaign, your job is done.
If your campaign, when it goes public, happens to coincide with an upswing in your client's business, then so much the better. Paydirt! You get to do your campaign for longer, or they think your skills are magical and will consult you next time.
For obvious reasons, if you were making the decisions at QF, you'd be wanting to get as far away as possible from the old 'I still call Australia home' ads, now that you quite clearly don't. Agency's job done, I reckon.
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Old 30th Sep 2011, 23:00
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I'm not a marketing Guru Worrals, but here's my take on it.

-They don't show the aircraft because (with the exception of the Dugong) they are clapped out.

-They don't show the cabin/interiors because, well, (with the exception of the Dugong) they are clapped out. What's more the interiors in the Dugong are already in line for a makeover because when compared to the competition's offering they are decidedly average.

-They don't show their staff because that would be a VERY public admission that they have some great staff who they should be proud of. (Can't have that when you're in the middle of telling the world that they are a bunch of greedy good-for-nothing pups)

-There's no point advertising destinations they USED to, or are no longer going to fly to.
INTERNATIONAL: "Fly QF to BKK, wait for 5 1/2 hours and then connect on BA which has a VERY crap product to somewhere in Europe". OR, enjoy the new QF DOUBLE HUB flights..."Your European destination in 36 hours". QF to BKK, sit around and get bored out of your skull. BA to LHR, don't enjoy the flight. BA/random airline to Rome or Athens....
DOMESTIC: We gave all our flying to Jetstar, so come and fly QF on this star spangled sardine can to all your favourite holiday destinations. "We will sell you a QF priced seat on a Nostar aircraft where you will get Nostar service and no Nostar nuts". You will however be able to purchase a 20c packet of 2 minute maggi noodles for $8. It'll be $9 if you want hot water with them!

What have they got left?

A hot chick in a dumb shirt telling the world that she went to one of the few international destinations QF still goes to. While she was there she got blind drunk, picked up some random, had it off in the kitchen and is now too ashamed to come home because she caught something nasty.

That's really going to bring in the masses!

As Sunfish said.... maybe what they're trying to say is "When you fly Qantas, wear a condom"
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 01:19
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Speaking of advertising, when is the last time anyone has seen a QF ad on TV during primetime. I know I`ve seen a s&^tload of Jetstar ads. What do you think the ratio of QF:JQ ads are? Could that be part of the great conspiracy. The incompetent fool that is putting those QF ads in the papers has got to have a long hard look at himself.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 06:29
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What do you think the ratio of QF:JQ ads are? Could that be part of the great conspiracy.
Jetstar is AJs baby. This press advertising campaign in my view was designed to keep the print media boss's happy, didn't work..

Weird, weird campaign... Maybe an advertising guru could explain?
Good post W of theW, mate, I think Rowan Dean got it right back in August...

Joyce left exposed by Qantas campaign



Read more: Qantas To Sack 1000 People Start Airline In Japan


Joyce left exposed by Qantas campaign Rowan Dean Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/joyce-left-exposed-by-qantas-campaign-20110821-1j4io.html#ixzz1ZVT8l4Sc

They're called ''teaser ads'', and their purpose is to tease you in the old-fashioned sense. A sly wink and a hint of exciting things to come. Advertisers spend money on teaser ads when they wish to raise anticipation and intrigue about a coming event, such as a gigantic sale or a product launch.
Qantas has launched a mega-teaser campaign, the likes of which we rarely see these days. But as unions, politicians and pilots step up the war against Alan Joyce's restructuring plans, was it the right strategy?

You couldn't avoid the lavishly presented, beautifully crafted promise of a ''new spirit'' last week: a full colour wrap-around of every major newspaper that kicked off a multimillion-dollar print and online campaign to run for the next couple of months.

The ad intrigued readers. It got tongues wagging. It looked extremely impressive, and tantalising. But there was one problem. When the temptress stepped out from behind her veil . . . there was nothing to see.
What on earth was Qantas on about? A long-lens pic of a pretty young lifesaver; the quintessential blonde and blue-eyed Aussie Anglo-Saxon kid. A beautiful blue sky and . . . lots of evasive, obfuscating blurb.

Having written many corporate ads myself, it was easy to spot the craft of the copywriter, as he or she desperately resorted to familiar feel-good phrases and reassuring sentiments to avoid actually saying what this "new spirit" comprised. "Competitive" gets a mention, as does "stronger" and "rewarding". Finally, right towards the end - by which point most readers would have given up - there's a clue, when the copywriter refers to the "vast majority of our operations [being] based in Australia". Aha! Gotcha. You're moving overseas.

Qantas is clearly relying on a fluffy, blockbuster campaign to "sell" something they know will be unpalatable to many. But by leaving the meaty details out, the campaign raises more questions than it answers. What on earth is the consumer supposed to "buy"? If there's a new airline, what's its name? Is there a new logo? Will it mean cheaper flights? Where is it going to be based? A "new spirit of partnership" - but with whom? Having pricked our interest, but failed to satisfy our curiosity, the teaser campaign forces us to look elsewhere for the answers.

And there they are, all over the news. Job cuts. Thousands of them. The Greens up in arms, reminding us all to check out the Qantas Sale Act of 1992. The unions are having a fit, claiming "they're expanding the airline but getting rid of Australian jobs, and that's a very fundamental mistake". Rival Virgin Australia cheekily grabbing the opportunity to steal some coveted "Aussie spirit" for themselves by offering jobs to those made redundant by Qantas.

Calls by shareholders for Joyce to go. Daily strikes threatened by unions, and subversive announcements made to passengers by pilots and hosties. Joyce forced onto the back foot, defending the redundancies while standing in front of the Harbour Bridge (proving he "still calls Australia home", presumably).
News that Neil Lawrence, of the ''Kevin 07'' slogan and the anti-mining tax ads, is behind the teaser campaign comes as no surprise. Qantas wanted to pull out the "big guns", and they don't come bigger. The opening salvos have been fired in what will be a drawn-out struggle for the hearts and minds of Qantas loyalists.

''I think the first message is the most critical and that is that Qantas international has to change or perish,'' Lawrence said.
Maybe, but that's not what the ads say. Perhaps it would have been better if they did. Honesty in advertising is a more powerful tool than obfuscation.
The details dribble out. We learn one of the new airlines will probably be called Jetstar Japan, while another doesn't have a name yet but will be based "somewhere in south-east Asia". Joyce has a Malaysian solution, perhaps. But lacking a single-minded and positive message to sell, Joyce is struggling to deliver the wonderful "new spirit" the campaign promises.

The tease continues, even on Twitter. So does this mean there will be four different brands, four different product stories and four different logos? Sounds like an ad man's nightmare.
Rowan Dean is a panellist on The Gruen Transfer and a former advertising creative director.

I also found this piece interesting from the viewpoint of a Gen Y journalist.

Gen Y | Brand Loyalty | Qantas To Sack 1000 People

As I sat there, averting my eyes from Charlie Sheen's dead ones, I thought about how Qantas cut 1000 employees just days before it announced its profit had doubled. I wondered if there had ever been a day in the history of all businesskind when an employer said: ''Well, gentlemen, we seem to have raked in an astonishingly large profit; better raise those well-earned wages!''

In a similar brush with old-school businesskind, Gerry Harvey last week proclaimed that Australians should be spending more and we should be ''as happy as pigs in ****''.


The last bit sounds like something LC would say, in my view, his style of leadership

from Arnold E
See you at the AGM........its going to be a ball tearer.
Nup, going to be as boring as hell, same ole same ole.
Not if a couple of thousand garden variety Q shareholders turned up at the AGM, would make a great press photo that would probably accelerate the downfall for the current lot at the top of Qs feeding trough, they have simply lost the plot and have poorly managed the once great image the Qantas brand held with the traveling public.

Last edited by TIMA9X; 1st Oct 2011 at 07:06.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 15:42
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These idiots keep telling us QF International has got to change. The changes as I see them are; The new Asia Airline, where`s the money from that going to go? Their bank seperate accounts. The same way JQ, QF freight etc. The EZE route cancelled & the Santiago route started, OK safe to say that equals one another, in money terms. QF International stays the same. The BKK & HKG to LHR routes shared with BA. Doesn`t sound like $200 million per year in that decision, especially after people endure a 5hr transit.
As consequence of the 5hr transits, I believe are more people onto the 380 via SIN to LHR. Yes more money from the 380! Where`s that money go? QF group I believe. End result, QF International still used as a scapegoat. Correct me if I`m wrong.
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Old 2nd Oct 2011, 15:31
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FLIGHTS OF FANCY

FLIGHTS OF FANCY
It must arguably be the second-most controversial remuneration package in recent Australian corporate history (after Leighton's former chief executive Wal King's $23.5 million farewell).
More than three years since departing Qantas, shareholder groups still want someone to pay (not in the monetary sense) for the airline's former chief executive Geoff Dixon's excessive pay packet.

The Australian Shareholders' Association has called for shareholders to vote against the re-election of Qantas director Richard Goodmanson at the airline's annual meeting at the end of the month in Sydney
. The association has argued that Goodmanson was a member of the remuneration committee that awarded Dixon about $12.1 million in pay in the 2008 financial year and an additional $10.7 million for his final nine months of work.

''Mr Dixon was the fifth-highest-salaried executive in Australia running the 40th largest company by market capitalisation and was paid more than the CEOs of BHP, Commonwealth Bank and Woolworths,'' the association said in a statement.

It has also raised objections to Qantas's use of ''underlying earnings'' to set 65 per cent of the short-term incentives of its present chief executive, Alan Joyce.

The Qantas chief pocketed a $2 million cash bonus for the past financial year thanks to the 46 per cent lift in ''underlying'' profit. But the association has questioned why the airline includes one-offs in ''underlying'' earnings, such as the $95 million settlement with Rolls-Royce over last year's A380 incident in Singapore.

My bold
BEng(Civil), BCom, BEc, MBA

Independent Non-Executive Director


Richard Goodmanson was appointed to the Qantas Board in June 2008.
He is a Member of the Remuneration Committee and a Member of the Safety, Health, Environment and Security Committee.
Mr Goodmanson is a Director of Rio Tinto plc and Rio Tinto Limited.
From 1999 to 2009 he was Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of E.I du Pont de Nemours and Company. Previous to this role, he was President and Chief Executive Officer of America West Airlines. Mr Goodmanson was also previously Senior Vice President of Operations for Frito-Lay Inc. and was a principal at McKinsey & Company Inc. He spent 10 years in heavy civil engineering project management, principally in South East Asia.
Mr Goodmanson was born in Australia and is a citizen of both Australia and the United States.
Age: 64

It's all starting to unravel in the mainstream press, that old saying comes to mind, "leopards don't change their spots."

How could AJ be proud to accept a $2 million dollar bonus for that horrible engine incident with the A380 in Singapore last year?

I think everyone on here would agree, the pilots did a wonderful job that day, the very people AJ and LC labeled “rogues” and “kamikazes” a few months later.




Let's hope it comes back to bite them, the real rogues, the Qantas board IMHO...




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Old 4th Oct 2011, 07:02
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Nice chins Alan !
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Old 4th Oct 2011, 10:41
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i can see why qantas recently announced closer ties with american airlines.
the management style sure has some distinct similarities...

American Airlines flight attendants protest bosses' executive bonuses at JFK airport
BY LORE CROGHAN
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, April 20, 2011
American Airlines flight attendants picketed at JFK Airport Wednesday to protest fat bonuses for their bosses in the face of big losses for their carrier.

About 30 workers and retirees waved signs saying "Bonuses for Failure?" and chanted "Down with corporate greed" on the sidewalk across the roadway from American Airlines' terminal.

Drivers of some passing cars honked to show solidarity with the flight attendants, many dressed in their navy-blue work uniforms.

"The top people have a lot of nerve taking their bonuses," said demonstrator Connie Patrick, 62, of Newtown, Conn., who has worked as a flight attendant for the airline for 43 years. "They're a bunch of Bernie Madoffs."

The top five execs have reaped $100 million in bonuses since 2005, while the carrier lost more than $4.2 billion. In 2003, the flight attendants agreed to cuts in pay and benefits worth $340 million annually, which they say kept American out of bankruptcy.

"We were promised when American got back on its feet that we would share in the profitability," said another protestor, Marilyn Catania, 60, of Rockville Centre, L.I. "But only the top people get the money.

"I had hoped to retire by now, but I'm going to have to work a few more years," said Catania, who's been an American flight attendant for 40 years.

The carrier's flight attendants earn $30,000 to $40,000 per year, which puts them in the middle of the pack on pay among the major airlines, said flight attendant Raymond Lewis, 40, of Stroudsburg, Pa., who's a rep for their union, the Association of Professional Flight Attendants.

"A regular work schedule is 75 to 80 hours a month, but most people I know in New York can't live on that," said flight attendant Jan Gadd, 44, of the lower East Side. "Most work at least 100 hours; I know people who work 140 hours to make ends meet."

The union issued a mock "14-count indictment" of their bosses charging "managerial incompetence" and "moral bankruptcy."

Protests were also held at LaGuardia Airport and nine other airports nationwide where the carrier has a presence.

It employs nearly 18,000 flight attendants. Their union has been in labor contract negotiations for three years.

The union bought a half-page ad in Wednesday's USA Today that trumpeted, "Wall Street greed is alive and well at American Airlines," and debuted a TV commercial that takes aim at American's CEO, Gerard Arpey.

After the protests, a company spokeswoman defended the bonuses and offered a hopeful word about labor negotiations.
"Performance-based compensation plans are considered good corporate governance," Missy Cousino said in a statement.

"We remain committed to working with all the unions to reach agreements addressing the needs of both parties that are in the long-term best interests of the company and all of its employees," she added.
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Old 4th Oct 2011, 11:18
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i can see why qantas recently announced closer ties with american airlines. the management style sure has some distinct similarities...
Good Point ButtMonkey.

The QF num-nutz(aka "distinct similarities") can sure pick winners..... see this from todays SMH.


American Airlines parent AMR yesterday tumbled the most since 2003, triggering automatic trading halts, on growing concern the third-largest US carrier may be forced to seek bankruptcy protection. SMH 041011
A stroke a perfect timing kicking off the DFW route

Lets face it the whole SYD-DFW has been an unmitigated disaster. Maybe it had legs 10 years ago....when it was first muted . But hell.... no 777, low yields and a kit that struggles

But hey, we've been down this road many times before

Suffice to say -if AMR go into Chapter 11..... another Long Haul route down the S-bend.

Maybe JQ will think its a goer.
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