Future of Qantas in jeopardy: Joyce (Merged)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by FGD135
The naivety and arrogance shown in the last few posts is breathtaking. Are you guys actually trying to get everybody offside?
Quote:
"Joe, you're our new Qantas pilot dispute reporter. Do a column on these greedy pigs. All you need to know is in the fax."
Incredibly insulting to all journalists - but you would be blissfully unaware of that. You have absolutely no idea. You probably think that integrity is the exclusive domain of pilots.
Quote:
"Joe, you're our new Qantas pilot dispute reporter. Do a column on these greedy pigs. All you need to know is in the fax."
Incredibly insulting to all journalists - but you would be blissfully unaware of that. You have absolutely no idea. You probably think that integrity is the exclusive domain of pilots.
The reporting in some quarters has been totally devoid of context.
Interpret it however you like........
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: HKG
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to admit Burrito, the end of Capitalist Economies Scenarios is beyond my pay grade. Making sense of the airline industry is hard enough.
Closer to home, it would seem from what is going down, that in order for Qantas to survive what is on the way, the Company will first have to make Qantas and Jetstar independent and then merge Jetstar with another LCC and Qantas with another Legacy Carrier.
Changes to the Qantas Sale Act permitting, achieving this may save the day, but until the warring stops and all concerned start talking constructively, Management and the Unions are just 'fiddling while Rome burns'.
Closer to home, it would seem from what is going down, that in order for Qantas to survive what is on the way, the Company will first have to make Qantas and Jetstar independent and then merge Jetstar with another LCC and Qantas with another Legacy Carrier.
Changes to the Qantas Sale Act permitting, achieving this may save the day, but until the warring stops and all concerned start talking constructively, Management and the Unions are just 'fiddling while Rome burns'.
As far as who should be Qantas CEO - you'd think that for the money on offer, you'd be able to attract a decent candidate rather than the bunch of crooks and shysters that have been there lately.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pity City
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It must be company policy not to negotiate, a directive from Joyce (but probably above). It doesn't matter what possible solutions are suggested, the company is not engaging.
They want the endgame to start as soon as possible!
That strategy is why the future of Qantas is in jeopardy!
They want the endgame to start as soon as possible!
That strategy is why the future of Qantas is in jeopardy!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Management don't want Qantas to be fixed! Management are attempting to utilize industrial disputes as the catalyst to collapse the company & slip the Qantas Sale Act. If they wanted to fix it they would have given Borghetti the job. They are trying to use the employees to do the "heavy lifting" - management needs a scapegoat to deflect attention from their own (deliberate) acts of destruction. Why have they continuously boxed SO's & FO's in for the last 5+ years, in effect denying promotion through lack of opportunities when the other group operations appear to be very short? Management figures if they can deny promotion for long enough, these pilots will be forced to make a move, handing them the tool for the collapse.
However, this strategy could backfire big time, and AIPA are well aware of this. The risk for Qantas management is that the pilots don't conduct any action that seriously disrupts operations. What is to stop AIPA continuously threatening & withdrawing action over an extended period of time.
The longer this goes on, the worse the erosion of Qantas international marketshare will become, with no one else to blame but management. The shareholder pressure will continue to increase on management to answer for the ongoing poor performance, they will be shown the door.
This is a race between the pilots & the shareholders, who will blink first?
WSJ MAY 24, 2011, 11:14 A.M. ET
However, this strategy could backfire big time, and AIPA are well aware of this. The risk for Qantas management is that the pilots don't conduct any action that seriously disrupts operations. What is to stop AIPA continuously threatening & withdrawing action over an extended period of time.
The longer this goes on, the worse the erosion of Qantas international marketshare will become, with no one else to blame but management. The shareholder pressure will continue to increase on management to answer for the ongoing poor performance, they will be shown the door.
This is a race between the pilots & the shareholders, who will blink first?
By KAVERI NITHTHYANANTHAN
LONDON—EasyJet PLC's Chief Executive Carolyn McCall on Tuesday criticized former management for mishandling labor issues, as the airline offered its pilots a pay rise in a bid to avert potential strike action.
After lengthy negotiations with the British Airline Pilots' Association, or BALPA, easyJet has promised pilots a 4% increase in basic pay, backdated to October 1, and a further 5% increase in flight pay. Pilots will now vote on whether to accept the deal.
"I am going to be blunt. There has been a continued deterioration in relationships between the company and pilots and pilot representatives over the last few years," Ms. McCall said in a letter to pilots. "For whatever reasons, management lost sight of how big a difference having great people makes. It has taken its toll on how pilots feel about working for easyJet, building mistrust and a lack of respect."
Within the letter, Ms. McCall discussed the airline's failure in the past to meet commitments it had made, BALPA said in a statement. The pay package is being put to a membership ballot that will close June 9.
Industrial action by pilots has a crippling impact on an airline's operations. Their skills aren't as easy to replace as, for example, cabin crew, and wet-leasing planes—leasing aircraft that come with a full contingent of staff—is expensive.
In addition to pay increases, there also will be immediate changes to a number of rostering issues ahead of a more substantial review, BALPA said in a statement. The union expects the deal to include shifting some temporary staff onto permanent contracts.
One of the agreements between BALPA and easyJet is for an independent review body with an independent chairperson to look at pilots' work patterns.
Jim McAuslan, the union's general secretary, said easyJet's offer was a "brave and game-changing approach."
"There has been some tough talking but I have nothing but praise for the imaginative move made by Carolyn McCall and easyJet's new leadership. But we all know this will not be delivered without a lot of hard work and proper support," he said.
A spokesman for easyJet said the deal would offer flexibility for its workforce, providing a mixture of fixed and rostered pilots.
The airline previously had agreed to a deal with pilots that encompassed a 1% increase in pay between April 2010 and October 2010.
LONDON—EasyJet PLC's Chief Executive Carolyn McCall on Tuesday criticized former management for mishandling labor issues, as the airline offered its pilots a pay rise in a bid to avert potential strike action.
After lengthy negotiations with the British Airline Pilots' Association, or BALPA, easyJet has promised pilots a 4% increase in basic pay, backdated to October 1, and a further 5% increase in flight pay. Pilots will now vote on whether to accept the deal.
"I am going to be blunt. There has been a continued deterioration in relationships between the company and pilots and pilot representatives over the last few years," Ms. McCall said in a letter to pilots. "For whatever reasons, management lost sight of how big a difference having great people makes. It has taken its toll on how pilots feel about working for easyJet, building mistrust and a lack of respect."
Within the letter, Ms. McCall discussed the airline's failure in the past to meet commitments it had made, BALPA said in a statement. The pay package is being put to a membership ballot that will close June 9.
Industrial action by pilots has a crippling impact on an airline's operations. Their skills aren't as easy to replace as, for example, cabin crew, and wet-leasing planes—leasing aircraft that come with a full contingent of staff—is expensive.
In addition to pay increases, there also will be immediate changes to a number of rostering issues ahead of a more substantial review, BALPA said in a statement. The union expects the deal to include shifting some temporary staff onto permanent contracts.
One of the agreements between BALPA and easyJet is for an independent review body with an independent chairperson to look at pilots' work patterns.
Jim McAuslan, the union's general secretary, said easyJet's offer was a "brave and game-changing approach."
"There has been some tough talking but I have nothing but praise for the imaginative move made by Carolyn McCall and easyJet's new leadership. But we all know this will not be delivered without a lot of hard work and proper support," he said.
A spokesman for easyJet said the deal would offer flexibility for its workforce, providing a mixture of fixed and rostered pilots.
The airline previously had agreed to a deal with pilots that encompassed a 1% increase in pay between April 2010 and October 2010.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peuce,You stated that "You can make fun of the CEO all you like .... but the punter only sees what's on the 7.30 report!This is a PR battle ... not a battle over who's right or wrong."Whilst having the public on side is a nice to have, it is not essential. The pilots and engineers must not forget this. You must fight for what is right, and if management keep telling lies to the public, then just let them do it. It doesn't affect the outcome of your protected industrial action. If flights get cancelled or delayed, the public will just stop flying with Qantas. That in turn affects the managers and their pay packets. Only then will they talk and negotiate like they should have in the first place. You have the power. Management are calling your bluff. The reason they are telling such lies in the media tells me they are really worried, and don't know what to do next.
The Richard Farmer headline yesterday of "Qantas international in jeopardy: who really cares" took me by surprise. Richard then goes on to say "Well I for one hope Alan Joyce's luck has run out and that Qantas is left to its own devices in its dispute with pilots. engineers and cabin crew".
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And this one has taken me by suprise, when I thought News Ltd had made up their mind, one of the most conservative commentators in the country comes out with a very pro-pilot piece:
The real Qantas kamikaze - to be sure to be sure | Daily Telegraph Miranda Devine Blog
The real Qantas kamikaze - to be sure to be sure | Daily Telegraph Miranda Devine Blog
More importantly read the comments, 2 or 3 genuine travellers who are on our side and all but one of the comments backing the pilot side.
Hopefully the first of many...
Hopefully the first of many...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Miranda Devine – The Daily Telegraph
Miranda should be given a medal! She is spot-on with her article (linked on manfred's post).
As much as QF staff have been increasingly smacked over the head in the last 10 years, I think most Australians see the company as a national treasure worthy of protection from Johnny-come-latelies who can't see past a spreadsheet.
I sense the tide has turned a little for Qantas staff – I hope there is more frank journalism coming our way soon.
As much as QF staff have been increasingly smacked over the head in the last 10 years, I think most Australians see the company as a national treasure worthy of protection from Johnny-come-latelies who can't see past a spreadsheet.
I sense the tide has turned a little for Qantas staff – I hope there is more frank journalism coming our way soon.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 57
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bear in mind Miranda's previous article about Airbus and computer control etc and the comments made then. Smells as if she has some sort of personal interest in this so be careful on taking her at face value or as being representative of wider sentiment.
diff slant on things
One can almost get lost in the mirad of threads/posts that abound in here re QF & AJ's woeful handling of same.
Lets cut right back to the core of the situation here, the downward spiral of QF & WHY.
Oh boy some could answer that in as much as a few words others could write a book as to why.
For whatever reason you believe to be the case here the end result will be a great many will loose. A.J. & his cohorts won't suffer too much at the end of the day he'll go (hopefully) & still take lots of cash with him whilst leaving the ashes behind. CEO's the world over often pass thru Co's some make a difference for all the wrong reasons some walk away standing tall & proud, the latter a rarity these days sadly.
So here's the question..........Why had the likes of AJ & 'tricky dicky' found it necessary to ruin what was once a great Co.? Surely no sane man would do such a thing from the outset. Some will say he is insane, probably is to some of us but he didn't ascend to his current position by destroying Co's along the way. So what's the answer.................? Not answerable in a few words but lets look at the basics.
Forget AJ for a moment he's just a desperate man now, a figure head whom obviously has no idea I think most agree on that it's more that QF is playing for want of a better word in a world where may other Airlines are competing for the traveling public's dollar.
There's what some 6 billion+ humans on this planet? The world is shrinking due low fares where everybody can afford to travel these days BUT that comes at a cost. So in order to sustain that philosophy that everyone can afford to fly these transportation Co's need to keep the costs down in order to compete & still turn a buck for the share holders, that's the nuts & bolts of it.
What we have here are two opposing ways of thinking/idea's. (bit like the Airbus, doesn't like going down & slowing down at the same time) One is cheap costs to give cheap fares (we all want them) in order to compete but to also keep increasing employees remunerations/job security as the cost of living only ever goes up. What a conundrum, what a mess we are in
!
We all want a better lifestyle who doesn't a fair days pay for a fairs days work. What's fair ??..............that has us here going back & forth doing battle with 'them', the Co's that we work for. We can't stop the world it's out of control in some ways we made it that way ourselves but what we can do is work together to make it 'spin' at a rate that's sustainable. If it takes QF's demise or some form of total restructuring then it was meant to be, so be it perhaps we need another 'ice-age', a little revolution can be a good thing:-).
There's some tough decisions coming up here, not everyone is gunna like the outcome, some toes are going to be trodden on for sure.
I don't have all the answers I just try to stand outside the problem & look in as if it doesn't effect me. What I do know though what we have now is unsustainable & AJ knows this,but is he going about it the right way? Now there's an even bigger question!!!
For me before some of you go off the planet here I was caught up in the Oil industries world of 'restructuring' some years ago (that new "in word"back then) with a powerful union at the time (TWU) where all Mobil employees at Tulla where moved on & then re-hired under new T&C's. That changed my life forever & there was nothing I/we could do about it despite severe industrial action . My job at the RFDS came to an end due simply the evil of mankind,money/Govt's, that also changed my life. Now I work in an industry that's forever changing, less secure than ever. It's good to stand together for sure but it's smarter to make yr own nest as secure as possible & on yr own don't rely on anyone else
Hard times ahead, we ought to get used to it.
Just thinking out loud here
Wmk2
Lets cut right back to the core of the situation here, the downward spiral of QF & WHY.
Oh boy some could answer that in as much as a few words others could write a book as to why.
For whatever reason you believe to be the case here the end result will be a great many will loose. A.J. & his cohorts won't suffer too much at the end of the day he'll go (hopefully) & still take lots of cash with him whilst leaving the ashes behind. CEO's the world over often pass thru Co's some make a difference for all the wrong reasons some walk away standing tall & proud, the latter a rarity these days sadly.
So here's the question..........Why had the likes of AJ & 'tricky dicky' found it necessary to ruin what was once a great Co.? Surely no sane man would do such a thing from the outset. Some will say he is insane, probably is to some of us but he didn't ascend to his current position by destroying Co's along the way. So what's the answer.................? Not answerable in a few words but lets look at the basics.
Forget AJ for a moment he's just a desperate man now, a figure head whom obviously has no idea I think most agree on that it's more that QF is playing for want of a better word in a world where may other Airlines are competing for the traveling public's dollar.
There's what some 6 billion+ humans on this planet? The world is shrinking due low fares where everybody can afford to travel these days BUT that comes at a cost. So in order to sustain that philosophy that everyone can afford to fly these transportation Co's need to keep the costs down in order to compete & still turn a buck for the share holders, that's the nuts & bolts of it.
What we have here are two opposing ways of thinking/idea's. (bit like the Airbus, doesn't like going down & slowing down at the same time) One is cheap costs to give cheap fares (we all want them) in order to compete but to also keep increasing employees remunerations/job security as the cost of living only ever goes up. What a conundrum, what a mess we are in
! We all want a better lifestyle who doesn't a fair days pay for a fairs days work. What's fair ??..............that has us here going back & forth doing battle with 'them', the Co's that we work for. We can't stop the world it's out of control in some ways we made it that way ourselves but what we can do is work together to make it 'spin' at a rate that's sustainable. If it takes QF's demise or some form of total restructuring then it was meant to be, so be it perhaps we need another 'ice-age', a little revolution can be a good thing:-).
There's some tough decisions coming up here, not everyone is gunna like the outcome, some toes are going to be trodden on for sure.
I don't have all the answers I just try to stand outside the problem & look in as if it doesn't effect me. What I do know though what we have now is unsustainable & AJ knows this,but is he going about it the right way? Now there's an even bigger question!!!
For me before some of you go off the planet here I was caught up in the Oil industries world of 'restructuring' some years ago (that new "in word"back then) with a powerful union at the time (TWU) where all Mobil employees at Tulla where moved on & then re-hired under new T&C's. That changed my life forever & there was nothing I/we could do about it despite severe industrial action . My job at the RFDS came to an end due simply the evil of mankind,money/Govt's, that also changed my life. Now I work in an industry that's forever changing, less secure than ever. It's good to stand together for sure but it's smarter to make yr own nest as secure as possible & on yr own don't rely on anyone else
Hard times ahead, we ought to get used to it.Just thinking out loud here
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 30th May 2011 at 01:03.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The answer is in front of your noses. Borgetti. He knows the company like he knows his own kitchen. Offer him the habour bridge, a block of units, any bloody thing to get him back. He will turn the company around very smartly. But first you need to shaft the board that dismissed him. A new board is required, one that contains both Pilot and Engineer representatives, a couple of outstanding retired ones are fine, (not me, I am committed to fishing) plus a bean counter and a expert in the travel and transport business, then you might get the company back onto straight and level. Dreaming I know, but then anything is possible.
But first you need to shaft the board that dismissed him
and the Easter bunny . i am sure they will represent you well
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could not do any worse Unionist. Ken, the board should have recognised the blokes potential and kept him on, not let him go to Virgin. A big mistake that QF will pay for dearly and already are. TE show what a good CEO can do, they were struggling until the new CEO turned the airline around, happy staff, equals a happy sucessful airline, Qantas deserves nothing less.