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Future of Qantas in jeopardy: Joyce (Merged)

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Future of Qantas in jeopardy: Joyce (Merged)

Old 26th May 2011, 23:10
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,135
You can make fun of the CEO all you like .... but the punter only sees what's on the 7.30 report!

This is a PR battle ... not a battle over who's right or wrong
peuce is offline  
Old 26th May 2011, 23:15
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
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Honest question

TBM; To what do you base your statement about Qantas doing it tough?
Nuthinondaclock is offline  
Old 26th May 2011, 23:23
  #23 (permalink)  
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gotta agree with peuce
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Old 26th May 2011, 23:33
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
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On CH7 Sunrise this morning Mel quoted AJ saying that under a new wage claim Qantas pilots would TAKE HOME an EXTRA $200K per annum. That is either very slack journalism, or else deliberately mischeivious and misleading misinformation.

It all feels like shades of the way pilots were painted as overpaid bus drivers by Messrs Hawke, Abeles and Strong 22 long years ago. The company is using the same PR game plan dusted off from 1989.

Funny how after any serious e.g (QF32) or even minor incident the pax all come out gushing that they don't care what the pilots get paid because their lives are in the pilots hands.

I didn't notice anybody disembarked QF32 complimenting the poisonous leprechaun on his stunning performance.
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Old 26th May 2011, 23:50
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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According to the figures AJ has delivered last night the pilots are after $317m, which represents a 26% increase.

This then means the average QF Longhaul pilots package at present is around $730k and at the completion of the EA term will be close to $920k. Please feel free to correct my figures if necessary.

I never knew life was so good.....and I bet 1700 others didn't either!!!

Can we please work on dispelling this sought of [email protected] any time soon?
QFdude is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 01:01
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 85
Oh and what is with the Chief Pilot sending out emails being a "company man"? Dude, aren't you meant to be on the pilots side?
My thoughts exactly. One email from AIPA, one email from the CP, one email from Aipa.....it's like a game of tennis. I wonder if the CP wasn't sitting there in his office and was just an ol' ordinary line pilot, what his thoughts really would be. I also like the reference to the fact that the lack of performance of Qantas International cannot be blamed on mismanagement or Jetstar....wtf

As for the Sunrise shambles, I'm glad I missed watching it this morning for the sake of my tv living to see another day. What a joke.
brown_hornet is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 01:31
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Is it just me or is it ironic that QF HQ is on 'coward' street?

Joyce, stop being such a bloody coward. Get out there, engage your staff, look them in the eye and show some leadership. Take Qantas where everyone wants it to go. FORWARD! Not one Australian (even your opposition VA) want to see it go down the tubes. Follow JBs lead and do something constructive.

Everyone in the company is desperate to feel proud again, they want Qantas to succeed. You and your cronies are the ones who are causing this sham.

Buy some decent proven aeroplanes (777) piss off the dugong (convert the remaining orders for A350s to cover if the dreambreakers don't do what they are supposed to do, yes plan B I think it's called), get some 748s to compliment the 777s on the trunk routes, and invest in world class engineering facilities to attract contract work to cover your own maintenance and labour bills.

If you announced you were doing the above to revitalize the brand and asked for pay freezes, mark my words - most would be ecstatic and go on the ride with you. The staff just want some leadership.

Oh and announce you're freezing your own and executive pay and will only unfreeze it when you feel comfortable to reward your staff with their own increases.

That would be a pretty good olive branch to kick off the new Qantas.

The ball is in your court.
The Green Goblin is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 02:12
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
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The company needs to be made to understand that it will be held accountable for incorrect statements - add a new claim to the negotiations that a penalty of $100 per employee will be made for any incorrect claim made to the media. At least the CEO will have an incentive to tell the truth.
David75 is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 02:35
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 213
Yeah but he keeps getting away with it and if the pilots don't get their shite together they will reap what they sow. Nothing.

For the life of me so many of us are exasperated because they are just taking this with no response and we dont understand why???

Get out there and get active PLEASE.
rodchucker is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 03:31
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 451
Losing the PR War...badly

Until AIPA engage the services of top-notch, shrewd Public Relations consultancy the battle will never be won...

Punters will believe what they read in the press and see on the telly...
Popgun is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 04:25
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Meanwhile the MUA are asking for 17% pay rise and knocked it back 15% with annual 4%!!!! I think QF might need a reality check somewhere in here.

Patrick has, in return, offered wage increases of 15 per cent over three years with annual 4 per cent increases in return for productivity concessions and a further 1 per cent annually based on meeting new safety and customer metrics.
Patrick's punches telegraphed to union by a three-year-old | The Australian
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 04:59
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Drop the wages claim.

QF pilots are desperately claiming that it is "nothing to do with salaries and is only about the off-shoring".

How is anybody supposed to believe that when the media are presenting it as basically a wages claim? This is not the fault of the media. Whilst there is a wages component to the demands then the media are entitled to report it that way.

Shout as loudly as you like that it is "not about the salaries" but nobody will believe you.

Drop the wages claim.
FGD135 is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 05:22
  #33 (permalink)  
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This thread could have been better named "the future of management in trouble".

A good manager would have had this entire mess put to bed by now.
Ngineer is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 05:43
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
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FGD135- their wages claim is already BELOW CPI. So they should just take a pay freeze because the media cant operate a calculator properly or indeed do any research whatsoever?

You guys need to get some facts out there in the public domain, even by starting on PPRuNe so that those of us who support your cause know what to say when non-aviation mates ask "just what is all this about"?

Things such as a succinct list of what you are asking for, how this compares to other airlines in the industry and exactly what it is projected to cost.
Chadzat is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 05:52
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Quite right Terry, when Menadue was boss and the company was up against a wall due to a savage downturn in this country, the whole staff had meetings over a period of time in the hangers. They came up with ideas to save the company money, from turning off unnessary power, to volunteers working for nix on days off. Why? because Menidue was honest, decent, cared for his staff, and everybody was desperate to keep the company going. No shareholders of course then, but a boss that gave it his all, so the staff did to. Air New Zealand has also now done the same thing with a boss that inspires. It can be done with QF, IF the right boss is brought in. Pay anything to Borgetti, but get him back. And shaft the board that sacked him. He has the ability to unite the staff, listen to the problems, and meet and compromise with various sections of the company. QF staff don't need to buy a 767, they just need Borgetti back, thats even better. Start saving.
teresa green is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 08:31
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
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So they should just take a pay freeze because the media cant operate a calculator properly or indeed do any research whatsoever?
You're missing the point. The QF pilots are being slaughtered in the court of public opinion because of how the wages claim is being perceived - and this will not change. Sooner or later, somebody will rerun the "glorified busdrivers" line.

Only by dropping the wages claim (for now) will anybody listen to your pleas re off-shoring.

You can always come back to the wages claim later. The priority right now is the off-shoring.

To leave the wages claim in there is dumb and invites the slaughter to continue. The media and public will soon lose interest - their minds will be made up (that it is all about the pay).
FGD135 is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 08:45
  #37 (permalink)  
The Reverend
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I doubt if you'll get Borghetti back from Virgin. Richard Branson will make sure that won't happen!
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Old 27th May 2011, 08:47
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
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FGD135 is correct.

We MUST remove the ability for management to misrepresent the pay claims.

At the very least, drop/'rejig' the payload band tables and remove any of the staff travel claims which management say are inflating the figures.

Leave the 2.5%, which at current CPI rates seems to be a 0.5% to 1% pay cut each year in real terms.

A Job Security/Scope Clause is NOT going to come cheap!
h.o.t.a.s. is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 08:54
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
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Perhaps this thread should be renamed "Future of Joyce in Jeopardy : Qantas"
Tankengine is offline  
Old 27th May 2011, 09:02
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
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It is still early in this dispute. One of the reasons '89 went so badly was the lack of a fall-back position.

I believe AIPA would have that as a fall-back position that could be easily implemented if required, and it would leave QF nowhere to go.

Done too early however, it would leave AIPA also with nowhere to go. I believe it is far too early in this dispute however to start reducing claims. AIPA would also be waiting to see the result of the ballot from its own members.
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