Qantas Pilots, You Are Losing The Battle.
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Is a Big Mac still a Big Mac if it is manufactured by XYZ Pty Ltd under a francise? A Boost Juice smoothy is it still a Boost Juice smoothy when you buy it overseas where they pay different labour rates? What about a Ford motor vehicle if it is designed in Europe and built in South Africa or ........
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fatmike,
Since you are apparently an expert on this matter, perhaps you could enlighen us with your thoughts as to the operation of the "exlusion" provisions in the Qantas flight Qantas pilot claim?
Since you are apparently an expert on this matter, perhaps you could enlighen us with your thoughts as to the operation of the "exlusion" provisions in the Qantas flight Qantas pilot claim?
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your thoughts as to the operation of the "exlusion" provisions in the Qantas flight Qantas pilot claim?
I can't see AIPA agreeing to exclude Jetstar, Jetconnect, EFA because they are seen to be causing the problem.
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I can't see AIPA agreeing to exclude Jetstar, Jetconnect, EFA because they are seen to be causing the problem.
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Tuner, You really are a d**khead.
I don't presume to be an authority but having coughed up an extra $400 in support of the cause at least I've taken the time to try and understand the issues. I don't rely on opinions from this forum, propaganda from either side and provocative clowns like you to form my views. If I go down the gurgler in a failed industrial campaign it won't be because I have been blindly led or even misled.
I don't presume to be an authority but having coughed up an extra $400 in support of the cause at least I've taken the time to try and understand the issues. I don't rely on opinions from this forum, propaganda from either side and provocative clowns like you to form my views. If I go down the gurgler in a failed industrial campaign it won't be because I have been blindly led or even misled.
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Tuner, You really are a d**khead.
I don't presume to be an authority but having coughed up an extra $400 in support of the cause at least I've taken the time to try and understand the issues. I don't rely on opinions from this forum, propaganda from either side and provocative clowns like you to form my views. If I go down the gurgler in a failed industrial campaign it won't be because I have been blindly led or even misled.
I don't presume to be an authority but having coughed up an extra $400 in support of the cause at least I've taken the time to try and understand the issues. I don't rely on opinions from this forum, propaganda from either side and provocative clowns like you to form my views. If I go down the gurgler in a failed industrial campaign it won't be because I have been blindly led or even misled.
Thanks for the new nicknames.
If you are so wary of being led down a gurgler and so sensitive about getting value for your $400, perhaps you could at least have made direct contact with the negotiators to actually ascertain whether your statement "if there are too many exclusions what is the point of the clause in the first place" is actually correct, before coming on this website and making such comments.
Based on your contributions to date, it's clear that you have not done so.
What's the deal with AIPA/QF?
I'm trying to explain to someone that QF pilots are not demanding Qantas payrates for pilots flying codeshare flights.
I directed them to this press release by AIPA: Facts and myths of this dispute
According to them Qantas flight is defined by AIPA to be any flight with a QF 'flightcode'. They assert that this means AIPA/Qantas pilots either want to eliminate codesharing at Qantas completely or that any flight with a Qantas flight number needs to have pilots paid under the QF EBA (codeshared or not).
Of course I think that's ludicrous but as far as they are concerned what is written by AIPA is the word of God.
Can anyone verify exactly what the QF pilots are asking for as the AIPA website that all media outlets are referencing is hopelessly ambiguous about what consitutes a Qantas flight.
A reference to an official AIPA release would be appreciated.
I directed them to this press release by AIPA: Facts and myths of this dispute
According to them Qantas flight is defined by AIPA to be any flight with a QF 'flightcode'. They assert that this means AIPA/Qantas pilots either want to eliminate codesharing at Qantas completely or that any flight with a Qantas flight number needs to have pilots paid under the QF EBA (codeshared or not).
Of course I think that's ludicrous but as far as they are concerned what is written by AIPA is the word of God.
Can anyone verify exactly what the QF pilots are asking for as the AIPA website that all media outlets are referencing is hopelessly ambiguous about what consitutes a Qantas flight.
A reference to an official AIPA release would be appreciated.
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I totally agree with you. AIPA's claim is very confusing even to a keenly interested, industry savvy observer such as myself. The QF flight code reasoning means the agreement should apply to Jetstar and Cobham, which seems not to be the case in reality. But it does apply to Jetconnect? I'm confused.
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If its got a red tail and branded Qantas with folk wearing a Qantas uniform, then they are required to be paid as per the applicable Qantas EBA.
There are exclusions to this, and that is what negotiations are for. What would probably happen is a grandfather clause for cobham who have their own EBA. Sunstate, Easters etc also. The Jetconnect issue would be negotiated and loose ends tied up followed by business as usual. A good outcome would be the same dollar amount as a an Australian pilot in Kiwi dollars for a kiwi base. it's about meeting in the middle through negotiation. Neither party will be happy with the outcome, a bit like a divorce. But this means the settlement was probably fair.
Unfortunately the company won't negotiate at all. They want it all their way and think they have the right to dictate to the workforce on their terms.
There lies the problem.
There are exclusions to this, and that is what negotiations are for. What would probably happen is a grandfather clause for cobham who have their own EBA. Sunstate, Easters etc also. The Jetconnect issue would be negotiated and loose ends tied up followed by business as usual. A good outcome would be the same dollar amount as a an Australian pilot in Kiwi dollars for a kiwi base. it's about meeting in the middle through negotiation. Neither party will be happy with the outcome, a bit like a divorce. But this means the settlement was probably fair.
Unfortunately the company won't negotiate at all. They want it all their way and think they have the right to dictate to the workforce on their terms.
There lies the problem.
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If it hasn't been said before you should get a copy of 'The 49ers The True Story'. You can read a few pages with the following link.
Some of the things in the book are very pertinent in regard to management & union tactics.
The Australian law firm freehills gets a good mention too, being the one CX chooses to use.
Some of the things in the book are very pertinent in regard to management & union tactics.
The Australian law firm freehills gets a good mention too, being the one CX chooses to use.
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Chuboy and Muffman,
I have now been shown a copy of the AIPA document so there can be no doubt. I quote from that document
A Qantas flight means any flight that:
a. is operated by the Company
b. uses a Qantas flight number
c. uses a flight number that contains a IATA airline designator assigned to the company
d. is undertaken by aircraft that display on its livery any of the following:
i the word Qantas
ii All or part of the marks displayed in schedule C (which is the Qantas logo)
but does not cover crew which are covered by the Shorthaul agreement or employed on an excluded flight which include Dash 8 operated by Qantaslink
So included are:
Jetconnect, Jetstar codeshares, EFA, Atlas freighters, Cobham B717s, Network depending on what flight numbers they use and how their aircraft are subsequently painted .
The AIPA claim is that:
All Qantas flights (as defined above) will be operated by crew either covered by the Qantas Longhaul EBA or terms and conditions no less favourable than if they had been covered by this agreement.
I have now been shown a copy of the AIPA document so there can be no doubt. I quote from that document
A Qantas flight means any flight that:
a. is operated by the Company
b. uses a Qantas flight number
c. uses a flight number that contains a IATA airline designator assigned to the company
d. is undertaken by aircraft that display on its livery any of the following:
i the word Qantas
ii All or part of the marks displayed in schedule C (which is the Qantas logo)
but does not cover crew which are covered by the Shorthaul agreement or employed on an excluded flight which include Dash 8 operated by Qantaslink
So included are:
Jetconnect, Jetstar codeshares, EFA, Atlas freighters, Cobham B717s, Network depending on what flight numbers they use and how their aircraft are subsequently painted .
The AIPA claim is that:
All Qantas flights (as defined above) will be operated by crew either covered by the Qantas Longhaul EBA or terms and conditions no less favourable than if they had been covered by this agreement.
look at the stats. I would back a Jetconnect Pilot, SQ, EK, or any other majour Pilot vs QF anyday
Referencing the post below
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Pull your head in mate
Forget the Indian Pilot. What about any other Pilot, who would manage the aircarft as well, or if not better than the QF Pilot.
Qantas Pilots are quick to rubbish Jetconnect Pilots, however look at the stats. I would back a Jetconnect Pilot, SQ, EK, or any other majour Pilot vs QF anyday, so dont give me that rubbish about outsourcing QF jobs to India. Oh and by the way. Outsourcing engineering has huge benefits as well, and Im taking quality
Qantas Pilots are quick to rubbish Jetconnect Pilots, however look at the stats. I would back a Jetconnect Pilot, SQ, EK, or any other majour Pilot vs QF anyday, so dont give me that rubbish about outsourcing QF jobs to India. Oh and by the way. Outsourcing engineering has huge benefits as well, and Im taking quality
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Come on, get real
I strongly oppose you saying that the next engine issue is just around the corner, and the fact that your members wants Qantas Club memberships like millions of other Aussies.
Dont ever underestimate the quality of overseas maintenance and expertise of overseas Pilots from majour airlines. You mention that you simply want Qantas Club memberships like the majourity of millions of other Australians. What you fail to mention is the DISCOUNTED level that Millions of other Aussies dont get, and what your lot are asking for.
The Public are against you, the Company is against you, and your lot is the only lot, that cant see the freight train coming. Competition is heating up soo fiercly into and out of Australia that the Qantas market share will shrink to the point that the job security that you are seeking will be worth as much as the 'powder you have in your aresenal of weapons". ie: nil.
So go ahead, make demans on Qantas but remember!
The freight train is on its way!!!
Dont ever underestimate the quality of overseas maintenance and expertise of overseas Pilots from majour airlines. You mention that you simply want Qantas Club memberships like the majourity of millions of other Australians. What you fail to mention is the DISCOUNTED level that Millions of other Aussies dont get, and what your lot are asking for.
The Public are against you, the Company is against you, and your lot is the only lot, that cant see the freight train coming. Competition is heating up soo fiercly into and out of Australia that the Qantas market share will shrink to the point that the job security that you are seeking will be worth as much as the 'powder you have in your aresenal of weapons". ie: nil.
So go ahead, make demans on Qantas but remember!
The freight train is on its way!!!
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Oh and by the way. Outsourcing engineering has huge benefits as well, and Im taking quality
Since the work is outsourced, control on quality is lost. That's why QANTAS of today in the globalised world is barely a shadow of what it once was.
Are we the best? Not anymore we aren't. Just another airline in the aviation industry being screwed down on price and quality. It seems to be a race to the bottom to see who can get there first.
I wonder if a loss of hull will change things for the QF board. No, I'm not wishing that by any stretch of any imagination, because I could think of nothing worse than to see a QF plane in the drink, or any other airline for that matter. It does happen when systems of operation are compromised due to cost.