Qantas Pilots, You Are Losing The Battle.
Nunc est bibendum
First rule of flying when something goes awry is to not panic, then sit on your hands and evaluate what is going on around you. Sort out the issues from the clanging of bells, whistles, etc. Only with a clear head can you respond appropriately. Even with the negative press the online vote on the ninemsn site is stagnating at about 2/3s of voters suggesting that Qantas pilots are NOT over paid.
The reality is that this made a great headline and if we get sucked into responding to every little thing regarding pay then it looks like pay actually is the issue. We don't have as many opportunities as Qantas and we certainly don't have the same headlines. Qantas pilots on average salary of $150K seek 2.6% and job security is nowhere near as sexy as what has been proffered from Qantas management.
Whilst I acknowledge that 'perception is reality', we're not even halfway through the first round of a 12 round title fight. QF is throwing everything they have at this thing and if the PIA actually kicks off then these sorts of headlines are going to be 'old news'. Thats when AIPA will have more clear air to tell our side of the story. That's when we as crew have the opportunity to talk directly to our passengers- the ones whom we know pay for our jobs- and to cut out the BS media spin.
Don't panic, sit on your hands, evaluate what is going on and then deal with the issues.
Pilot unity is the key. I look forward to the continued support of most PPRUNE contributors.
The reality is that this made a great headline and if we get sucked into responding to every little thing regarding pay then it looks like pay actually is the issue. We don't have as many opportunities as Qantas and we certainly don't have the same headlines. Qantas pilots on average salary of $150K seek 2.6% and job security is nowhere near as sexy as what has been proffered from Qantas management.
Whilst I acknowledge that 'perception is reality', we're not even halfway through the first round of a 12 round title fight. QF is throwing everything they have at this thing and if the PIA actually kicks off then these sorts of headlines are going to be 'old news'. Thats when AIPA will have more clear air to tell our side of the story. That's when we as crew have the opportunity to talk directly to our passengers- the ones whom we know pay for our jobs- and to cut out the BS media spin.
Don't panic, sit on your hands, evaluate what is going on and then deal with the issues.
Pilot unity is the key. I look forward to the continued support of most PPRUNE contributors.
Kegs 100% spot on. AIPA will get all the free publicity it needs when PIA starts, whereas Qantas has basically shown its hand too early. They really have nowhere to go, and are very predictable in their use of the media. Its very early in the game.
I agree with Teresa Green………..this is starting to sound and feel a lot like 1989 all over again
We had over 95% of all Australian Domestic Pilot's UNITED one month into the dispute after the planes were grounded in 1989 and look where that got us!!
yep, replaced…….
Be careful…..
Pilot unity is the key
yep, replaced…….
Be careful…..
Last edited by nitpicker330; 27th May 2011 at 06:48.
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Every little bit counts be it a vote on ninemsn, a comment on news.com, a chat to passengers or a matter of fact with relatives.
My friends and close relations are in no two minds about the matter. They ask and I give the warts and all story. They now know this is about getting the cheapest most inexperienced foreign labour to fly/maintain the national carrier around the world. I encourage them to watch Air Crash investigation and have a think about what the meaning of ZERO hull loss means.
I also make it very clear that I'm happy for people of any colour, shape, size, religion to fly in Australia with an Australian passport under the negotiated EBA conditions.
Every bit counts. Do your bit.
My friends and close relations are in no two minds about the matter. They ask and I give the warts and all story. They now know this is about getting the cheapest most inexperienced foreign labour to fly/maintain the national carrier around the world. I encourage them to watch Air Crash investigation and have a think about what the meaning of ZERO hull loss means.
I also make it very clear that I'm happy for people of any colour, shape, size, religion to fly in Australia with an Australian passport under the negotiated EBA conditions.
Every bit counts. Do your bit.
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Look at the Orange movement in the states!! We need to start something similar!!!
OPERATION ORANGE 2011 | Protecting the Flying Public & Restoring the Piloting Profession
OPERATION ORANGE 2011 | Protecting the Flying Public & Restoring the Piloting Profession
Originally Posted by FDG135
The whole purpose of them is to get you to visit the website, or to return to the website. They are all about getting you to feel that you have made yourself heard - and so come back again another day - and be exposed again to the advertising messages being run by the website.
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Brilliant and inciteful.
Guys time to change the way you play whilst at the same time heeding the wisdom of Teresa.
I understand the need for caution but I don,t agree the Rat will run out of steam. They will have a room full of consultants who specialise in this stuff to keep finding new ground. The longer you wait, the harder it is to recover in my humble opinion.
You have so much right on your side, why wait?
Good luck.
Guys time to change the way you play whilst at the same time heeding the wisdom of Teresa.
I understand the need for caution but I don,t agree the Rat will run out of steam. They will have a room full of consultants who specialise in this stuff to keep finding new ground. The longer you wait, the harder it is to recover in my humble opinion.
You have so much right on your side, why wait?
Good luck.
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Keg,
I'm told by people who claim to be in the know that if AIPA's pay claim succeeds you, as a 767 captain, stand to gain 2.6% pa CPI increase and an immediate increase of 7.5% because 767 pilots would be paid the same as 330 pilots and for anyone who hasn't got 12 years service in Qantas would immediately go to 12th year pay rate.
Qantas pilots on average salary of $150K seek 2.6%
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Four weeks till a PIA vote result is known. QF have blown their bolt too early.
Qantas would love this to degenerate into claim and counter-claim about pay when the real issue is their attempts to slash costs and outsource the airline.
This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Qantas would love this to degenerate into claim and counter-claim about pay when the real issue is their attempts to slash costs and outsource the airline.
This is a marathon, not a sprint.
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Us 89ers are getting the creeps. A few facts from one who has been there. (1) there will be pilots that will not join you. (2) be prepared for escalation. Sure up your finances, get a bit of work if needed from perhaps a tradie mate (and lose 5kgs) (3) accept the fact that the country is controlled by a Labor Govt, who has little time for captalist, elitist, money making, private school educated, nicking peoples seats on aircraft, pilots and that is you, or at least that is how you will be painted. No Labor govt. is going to support you. This is now the time to contact the Liberal Party, tell them your plans, ask for support, and they will, if Gillard gives you a spray in parliment, and she probably will. Contact your MP if Liberal, don't bother if Labor ( I say this from sad experience). (4) Your kids could suffer. Ours did. Kids can be cruel, tell them what is going on and why, otherwise in the school ground your kids could be tomented and bullied, sounds far fetched? It happened to many of our kids and that was 89. (5)Stick together, but some will still break rank, some will go the other way and become total mavericks, its human nature, This is of course for a situation that for all intents will not happen, but as pilots we were all trained to expect the unexpected, seach for a nice clean paddock, and never trust the bastard. Remember that. I am sorry it has come to this, I hoped it never would again, and I sincerely hope none of you ever have to go thru the **** that happened to us. Good luck
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Well said T.G.
Still remember the only Union leader at the time who stood up for the principle of supporting a union, no matter what,was George Campbell of the AMWU,later,Senator George Campbell. The only one of the union leaders at the time,who stood up for principle over the ACTU inspired desire to support Hawk and co.
As a side line, anybody interested in this era or constitutional law etc,(I've long since given up hope of the media examining this),would come to the realization,that under the constitution of Australia,the Air force could only be used Domestically, at the direction of the Governor General as the Queens representative,NOT,the Government of the day.I.E Hawk was in breach of the Constitution and the Media through ignorance or direction,said nothing!
The point being, for those who missed that party,Don't believe for a second,that they will play by accepted norms.
Still remember the only Union leader at the time who stood up for the principle of supporting a union, no matter what,was George Campbell of the AMWU,later,Senator George Campbell. The only one of the union leaders at the time,who stood up for principle over the ACTU inspired desire to support Hawk and co.
As a side line, anybody interested in this era or constitutional law etc,(I've long since given up hope of the media examining this),would come to the realization,that under the constitution of Australia,the Air force could only be used Domestically, at the direction of the Governor General as the Queens representative,NOT,the Government of the day.I.E Hawk was in breach of the Constitution and the Media through ignorance or direction,said nothing!
The point being, for those who missed that party,Don't believe for a second,that they will play by accepted norms.
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TG. You may be helping out with your victim homilies and the idea that one side of politics will be better than the other but what is required is a clear eyed determination to not be anyone's b1tch.
QF warriors. So you might lose your job - get prepared for that. Your kids may not get to have an i-pod for Christmas - inform them. Grow vegetables in your garden. Network with your friends. Stand up for yourselves and don't rely on politicians or media - make your own future.
Tenacitas per aspera
QF warriors. So you might lose your job - get prepared for that. Your kids may not get to have an i-pod for Christmas - inform them. Grow vegetables in your garden. Network with your friends. Stand up for yourselves and don't rely on politicians or media - make your own future.
Tenacitas per aspera
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I think it would be fair to agree that Abbott is not going to be the cure for the plight of the aviation industry in this country.
It's up to us, no Government will help.
We can do this, we just have to stay smart, stay united, and don't think it can be solved quickly. This is a campaign that will run for years, it may never stop. If we don't protect the industry, no-one else will.
Australians and Qantas passengers don't want off-shoring of safety critical jobs. Get that "money" argument off the public table and get it back to off-shoring. The "job security" argument should be better tabled as "stopping the off-shoring of safety critical jobs". Which is what it is.
It's up to us, no Government will help.
We can do this, we just have to stay smart, stay united, and don't think it can be solved quickly. This is a campaign that will run for years, it may never stop. If we don't protect the industry, no-one else will.
Australians and Qantas passengers don't want off-shoring of safety critical jobs. Get that "money" argument off the public table and get it back to off-shoring. The "job security" argument should be better tabled as "stopping the off-shoring of safety critical jobs". Which is what it is.
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J.B. I'm not taking a political side either way,My father spent 28yrs with the Rat from the 50's to the 80's.I did my apprenticeship as a boilermaker.A long the way,I was a member of AMWSU,the TWU as a transport worker with the Rat and the AFAP as a Pilot.
Just trying to reiterate what T.G. was saying,there are many considerations in the world of politics and you would be foolish to think that because you believe you have righteousness on your side,outsiders will see it.
"those who forget the lessons of history are destined to repeat them" AND the "only thing new in the world,is the history you don't know yet."
Ignore it at your peril.
Just trying to reiterate what T.G. was saying,there are many considerations in the world of politics and you would be foolish to think that because you believe you have righteousness on your side,outsiders will see it.
"those who forget the lessons of history are destined to repeat them" AND the "only thing new in the world,is the history you don't know yet."
Ignore it at your peril.
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And JB,the reason these old sayings are just as valid now as when they were written,is because technology may change(and of course it does)but we as humans don't.
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This is not 89
TG- This is nothing like 1989- 89 was UNPROTECTED industrial action. Pilots had to resign because they were getting sued, and of course they got replaced.It's Sad but this has nothing to do with 2011. We all know the pay is only 2.5% and is negotiable. The company is lying about the 26% to try it make it look like 89. Looks like you swallowed it hook line and sinker. Perhaps your fishing yourself????
What i really draw from your posts is that Qantas Pilots need to do this right.The guys stuffed it up in 89.
AIPA won back in 66 and they will win again. If we don't ensure Qantas Planes are flown by Qantas Pilots now then we may as well all resign now. It's put up or shut up time.
This final step has only been taken as it is PROTECTED. It was approved by a judge in FAIR WORK Australia. There are rules about what you can and cannot do. I say again it is PROTECTED. It is a legal right.
Even with the LIES from Qantas about 500k pay packets the poll/public were still in favour of us!!!!
We will never get 100% of what we want in the media.Some days we will win a little and some days we will lose a little.
Rather than bitch and moan on PPRUNE which is only read by pilots and management trolls i suggest the following;
-For the articles that support us, like them on your Face book page so your friends see them
-Email articles in favour to your friends
-Write a letter of reply to journos or write to your local mp
-Talk to friends/mates at the pub and keep them informed.
-If there is a radio show on, call up, change your name and let the bastards have it. Everyone has bottled up a spray to serve. Write it down in bullet points then call in
-If you have a problem/concern don't bottle it up. Call an AIPA rep. I did this a few days ago and it answered a lot of my questions. The guys have the finger on the pulse
-Spread the word on the line and remember who the enemy to job security is here
-If you get fired up then roll up your sleeves and get proactive!!! Don't Bitch on here and think anyone listens.
What i really draw from your posts is that Qantas Pilots need to do this right.The guys stuffed it up in 89.
AIPA won back in 66 and they will win again. If we don't ensure Qantas Planes are flown by Qantas Pilots now then we may as well all resign now. It's put up or shut up time.
This final step has only been taken as it is PROTECTED. It was approved by a judge in FAIR WORK Australia. There are rules about what you can and cannot do. I say again it is PROTECTED. It is a legal right.
Even with the LIES from Qantas about 500k pay packets the poll/public were still in favour of us!!!!
We will never get 100% of what we want in the media.Some days we will win a little and some days we will lose a little.
Rather than bitch and moan on PPRUNE which is only read by pilots and management trolls i suggest the following;
-For the articles that support us, like them on your Face book page so your friends see them
-Email articles in favour to your friends
-Write a letter of reply to journos or write to your local mp
-Talk to friends/mates at the pub and keep them informed.
-If there is a radio show on, call up, change your name and let the bastards have it. Everyone has bottled up a spray to serve. Write it down in bullet points then call in
-If you have a problem/concern don't bottle it up. Call an AIPA rep. I did this a few days ago and it answered a lot of my questions. The guys have the finger on the pulse
-Spread the word on the line and remember who the enemy to job security is here
-If you get fired up then roll up your sleeves and get proactive!!! Don't Bitch on here and think anyone listens.
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Oh, gee, I din't realise that. Those nasty rotters. Thanks for the tip! BTW, I like being exposed-to... Now, where's that cookie folder?!
Even with the LIES from Qantas about 500k pay packets the poll/public were still in favour of us!!!!
If all the Qantas pilots are as gullible as you then they are in big trouble indeed.
“No Labor govt. is going to support you. This is now the time to contact the Liberal Party, tell them your plans, ask for support, and they will”
NO modern Government of any political persuasion is going to do anything but support the mighty corporation. And that isn’t you.
“They now know this is about getting the cheapest most inexperienced foreign labour to fly . . . “
Exactly what mechanisms do QF have available to operate Australian registered aircraft on domestic services with foreign licensed pilots. I haven’t lived in Australia for 10 years now but have the laws changed that much?
NO modern Government of any political persuasion is going to do anything but support the mighty corporation. And that isn’t you.
“They now know this is about getting the cheapest most inexperienced foreign labour to fly . . . “
Exactly what mechanisms do QF have available to operate Australian registered aircraft on domestic services with foreign licensed pilots. I haven’t lived in Australia for 10 years now but have the laws changed that much?