New JQ Contract
Join Date: Oct 2005
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The "Year that must not be mentioned" was not the start of all this. It was Ronald Reagan firing over 11,000 Air Traffic Controllers in 1981. That was when beancounters and managers all over the Western world creamed their jeans over this fundamental change in industrial relations.
It's been mentioned before, but maybe the last line of defense will be the Check and Trainers. No Check and Trainers, no Trainees, no ****e contract.
Some years ago a senior Check Captain came to me during EBA discussions. He was miffed that the company had rejected their proposal for the C&T additions to salary. I told him that we had put our case and the company was playing hard ball. The only avenue open to them at that time was to collectively withdraw their labour and go back to line flying. He was agast! "If we do that, they'll find someone else to do it!" These guys folded. They bitched and whinged with the best of them, but in the end they were more concerned with retaining their positions of power than taking a stand.
Oh well, perhaps the last line of defense won't rest with the likes of them. unless they suddenly grow a set!
Some years ago a senior Check Captain came to me during EBA discussions. He was miffed that the company had rejected their proposal for the C&T additions to salary. I told him that we had put our case and the company was playing hard ball. The only avenue open to them at that time was to collectively withdraw their labour and go back to line flying. He was agast! "If we do that, they'll find someone else to do it!" These guys folded. They bitched and whinged with the best of them, but in the end they were more concerned with retaining their positions of power than taking a stand.
Oh well, perhaps the last line of defense won't rest with the likes of them. unless they suddenly grow a set!
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Lester, I think they will have trouble filling these slots. The only reason to take a new job is to improve your situation, either pay or conditions, or a combination of both. I have said in the past the reason pilots have signed up to LCC conditions is because it is an improvement on what they get at the moment rather than because they think it's a good deal. For those who meet the minimum application requirements this contract is not an improvement over the terms and conditions you are on now or could get with any other employer.
This is different to cadets. They dont have the right mix of hours,if any at all, to compete for jobs that pay well on decent equipment.
I am sure there are still plenty of people with applications in either hoping for this to fail and get an offer on the EBA or just to have the satisfaction of saying no to the company when they ask. But the chances that the number of applicant reflects the number of people who will accept an offer is very low indeed.
This is different to cadets. They dont have the right mix of hours,if any at all, to compete for jobs that pay well on decent equipment.
I am sure there are still plenty of people with applications in either hoping for this to fail and get an offer on the EBA or just to have the satisfaction of saying no to the company when they ask. But the chances that the number of applicant reflects the number of people who will accept an offer is very low indeed.
A roadshow appears planned to sell this sh1te to company pilots who are clearly advising their buddies how bad these contracts really are. Wouldn't it be interesting if no one went?
If VB and QF pilots turned up or JQ pilots on the normal EBA , and made verbal comparisons with their contracts it would make it very difficult for those presenting.
I don't know if there will be a road show, but if there is one oin my town I will be going along to do just that even though I don't work for J*.
I was actually contemplating applying just so I could say no when they rang me up for an interview.
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Study history and it shows this decay started long before 1981 and Reagan: Braniff, Continental, Eastern, TWA, United, Ansett, Australian, et al.
Lorenzo, Ichon, Tilton, Strong, Abeles, Hawke supported by the weak, the lame, the maimed, soldiers of fortune and the thieves prepared to slink around in the darkness of night.
Management only achieved success due to the small fraction lacking the intestinal fortitude to stand with, steal from, their fellow pilots to the bitter end resulting in the `wonderful’ salaries, working conditions and job protection `enjoyed’ by pilots today.
The question is there sufficient unity to stand against management of today?
Lorenzo, Ichon, Tilton, Strong, Abeles, Hawke supported by the weak, the lame, the maimed, soldiers of fortune and the thieves prepared to slink around in the darkness of night.
Management only achieved success due to the small fraction lacking the intestinal fortitude to stand with, steal from, their fellow pilots to the bitter end resulting in the `wonderful’ salaries, working conditions and job protection `enjoyed’ by pilots today.
The question is there sufficient unity to stand against management of today?
Is there sufficient resolve to deal with those who are again prepared to steal from their fellow pilots further destroying honourable careers?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
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Neptunus, your implication is exactly on the money, here's a quote from another forum which encapsulates the long term goal of the elites.
Zerohedge comment by The Dork Of Cork 23/4/2011
Dark Knight - agree that history provides all the evidence that we need to work out what is going on. The top 0.1% of the population have unleashed a class war against the other 99.1%. There was no declaration, just a single minded stealth campaign to steal the working lives, in order to make the already wealthy even more wealthy.
If you want to know how this is to play out, it is essential to watch Chris Martensons Crash Course & read by G.Edward Griffin. This book is a history lesson par excellence. Educate yourselves about the game being played.
My scenario's about Qantas destroying itself & in order to justify its destruction & its Pan-Asian strategy have their genesis in these sources. If I can work it out, so can you. Prepare yourselves, don't bury your head in the sand.
I agree - Merk is a typical German Euro conservative - he deliberately fails to see the problem is the shadow bank sector, not entitlements which he wishes to cut which will crash demand into the Regolith.
Of course when you realise that the Euros construction was designed to crush sovereignty using private debt has a sledgehammer his views make sense.
The central banks goal since the wage inflation of the seventies which hurt their clients is to create a global wage deflation environment which until recently was fueled by private debt creation.
Now that this credit engine is dying the Central banks do not know how to engineer a effecient solution to protect their clients equity funds whose value is dependent on wage austerity.
To me the solution lies in the destruction of credit completly by global wage inflation.
Of course when you realise that the Euros construction was designed to crush sovereignty using private debt has a sledgehammer his views make sense.
The central banks goal since the wage inflation of the seventies which hurt their clients is to create a global wage deflation environment which until recently was fueled by private debt creation.
Now that this credit engine is dying the Central banks do not know how to engineer a effecient solution to protect their clients equity funds whose value is dependent on wage austerity.
To me the solution lies in the destruction of credit completly by global wage inflation.
Dark Knight - agree that history provides all the evidence that we need to work out what is going on. The top 0.1% of the population have unleashed a class war against the other 99.1%. There was no declaration, just a single minded stealth campaign to steal the working lives, in order to make the already wealthy even more wealthy.
If you want to know how this is to play out, it is essential to watch Chris Martensons Crash Course & read by G.Edward Griffin. This book is a history lesson par excellence. Educate yourselves about the game being played.
My scenario's about Qantas destroying itself & in order to justify its destruction & its Pan-Asian strategy have their genesis in these sources. If I can work it out, so can you. Prepare yourselves, don't bury your head in the sand.
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To the young pilots of Australia, looking for an "Australian" career in aviation, allow me to summarise:
DO NOT JOIN JETSTAR UNDER CONTRACT!!!!!
To do so will spark the beginning and the end or your career. This will provide
the avenue for airline management to destroy any future career prospect for yourself and the rest of us.
For the ignorant and niave, allow me to say this again:
DO NOT JOIN JETSTAR UNDER CONTRACT!!!!!
DO NOT JOIN JETSTAR UNDER CONTRACT!!!!!
To do so will spark the beginning and the end or your career. This will provide
the avenue for airline management to destroy any future career prospect for yourself and the rest of us.
For the ignorant and niave, allow me to say this again:
DO NOT JOIN JETSTAR UNDER CONTRACT!!!!!
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Dark Knight - agree that history provides all the evidence that we need to work out what is going on. The top 0.1% of the population have unleashed a class war against the other 99.1%. There was no declaration, just a single minded stealth campaign to steal the working lives, in order to make the already wealthy even more wealthy.
Just consider what it will do to the aviation industry in a very short period of time; you will not need a recruitment ban as there will be no jobs, period.
However, it is not just the wealthy supporting this but the Greens and Labor read Socialist Governments which does not quite fit the pattern of the top 1% theory.
However, I repeat my questions:
The question is there sufficient unity to stand against management of today?
Is there sufficient resolve to deal with those who are again prepared to steal from their fellow pilots further destroying honourable careers?
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I assume those hourly rates at the start are for new F/Os. You are always going to get younger inexperienced pilots applying for these sort of contracts.
My question is where do they get the Captains and Training/Checking staff from? Surely no one with this sort of experience would have anything to do with this operation. Are current senior Jetstar pilots being forced to train/fly with these 'part-timers'?
My question is where do they get the Captains and Training/Checking staff from? Surely no one with this sort of experience would have anything to do with this operation. Are current senior Jetstar pilots being forced to train/fly with these 'part-timers'?
The brave young pilots will still be happily applying to Jet*, because they be flying the big jet and living the dream and then they will move on to one of those big companies in the middle east, or go back to uni and do IT or get a job doing nightfill at Woolworths!!
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If the check pilots grew some balls it would all implode. Refuse to do the checks. Why are QF Checks still training and checking Jetconnect pilots. Talk about ****ting in your own nest. Spineless.
i've heard a strong rumour that some aviation training professionals were in canberra recently discussing with the senate that ' "quality" training is more important that total flight hours'
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Schlong Hauler is right.
Checkies are too busy worrying about the 12% training pay, and not pissing off the blue shirt CP mates club that got them out of the DRW forced basing which they'd be threatened with if they don't toe the company line.
Newsflash
Once these B scalers are self sustaining, you really think you'll be checking much longer?
Todays payslip or tomorrows career?
Checkies are too busy worrying about the 12% training pay, and not pissing off the blue shirt CP mates club that got them out of the DRW forced basing which they'd be threatened with if they don't toe the company line.
Newsflash
Once these B scalers are self sustaining, you really think you'll be checking much longer?
Todays payslip or tomorrows career?
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Most Checkies that I know are desperately trying to top up their super to pre GFC / ex wife levels in the few years that they have left in the industry. They can't afford to lose their job any more than anyone else.
Do you people honestly believe that a Check or Training CPT wont get a DCM for refusing to work with these people?
Do you people honestly believe that a Check or Training CPT wont get a DCM for refusing to work with these people?