Qantas~ A Business in Decline
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Biscuit Chucker - all the revenue Jetstar earns goes to Qantas...so in-effect, they're doing better by having Jetstar. Of-course, that should not be at the detriment of Qantas - but that is a subjective topic...
Jetstar is not operating on every single Qantas route - they've opened some new markets that would have never been viable for Qantas. They've also moved into markets that Qantas was never viable on.
Qantas had no choice but to bring Jetstar in, otherwise that "gap" would have been filled by a competitor (probably foreign) that would send the money off-shore aka Tiger (although they're loosing money), but anyone else...What was to stop a Middle Eastern or Asian airline setting-up shop in AUS...Great for the punter - not so great for our wealth. Why should a foreign carrier milk our economy.
At the end of the day - all strategic decisions for both business must be approved by the board - so ultimately - it is the board who are "driving the ship"...
Sunfish - time will tell I guess - but the future continues to look positive for Jetstar in terms of growth and viability. 30% or so growth year-on-year, reducing unit costs, and improving ebit. They're now turning over two billion in revenues and returning around 6-8% I think from last fiscal data...That's pretty sound in this climate.
Jetstar is not operating on every single Qantas route - they've opened some new markets that would have never been viable for Qantas. They've also moved into markets that Qantas was never viable on.
Qantas had no choice but to bring Jetstar in, otherwise that "gap" would have been filled by a competitor (probably foreign) that would send the money off-shore aka Tiger (although they're loosing money), but anyone else...What was to stop a Middle Eastern or Asian airline setting-up shop in AUS...Great for the punter - not so great for our wealth. Why should a foreign carrier milk our economy.
At the end of the day - all strategic decisions for both business must be approved by the board - so ultimately - it is the board who are "driving the ship"...
Sunfish - time will tell I guess - but the future continues to look positive for Jetstar in terms of growth and viability. 30% or so growth year-on-year, reducing unit costs, and improving ebit. They're now turning over two billion in revenues and returning around 6-8% I think from last fiscal data...That's pretty sound in this climate.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0198; 4th Feb 2011 at 11:05.
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BS - Qantas domestic is very profitable including QantasLink. So "Qantas" is not unviable. And I would argue that all of international operations are not viable. I believe the reality is that the returns are not acceptable as a result of heavy discounting and over-capacity, as well as disadvantages Qantas suffers as a result of its geographical position, un-balanced "playing field" and economical variables...
I'd also like to review Qantas's ASK's to determine if they really have "shrunk" as everyone seems to allude. I don't believe they have.
I'd also like to review Qantas's ASK's to determine if they really have "shrunk" as everyone seems to allude. I don't believe they have.
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So sad to read all of this, even sadder for someone of my vintage, who remembers when QF was the boss of the skies. Sparkling Aircraft, proud employees, engineering excellence par none, a company that cared for its employees, what the 
happened. To me the day the govt. sold it was the beginning of the end. When I think of the good CEO'S, Menedue, Yates, Ward, people like Ritchie, Scott, and the rest, top of their game. And then came Dixon. What can I say, that has not been said. The breakup of one of the finest Engineering outfits in the world, employees suddenly finding themselves out the door after years of service, all loyality gone, then that dreadful day of the big hug. We have sold it they shrieked, and we all stood helplessly by and for some the bottom fell out of their world. We know now had it gone thru, QF would be no more, unless the Govt picked up the tab, and the irony of it is as the directors still sit counting their money, Joyce is now in a battle to keep it afloat. What to do? Get Borgetti back for one. Bring engineering back to being seamless for two. (and give the freckin things a bath) seriously involve employees from all sides of the company. Tell them the TRUTH about what is happening, and ask for help and suggestions (its amazing what happens when people feel involved) give the CC something to be proud of, and ditch the ones with attitude, fix up the food, give the ground staff in the front line a reason to enjoy their work, and then perhaps just perhaps the airline can be turned around. It might mean pairing with another airline if so, so be it. Losing QF would be like selling the War Memorial to the Japanese, unthinkable. It is too much aligned with the Australian way of life and the countries history and as I said unthinkable.
happened. To me the day the govt. sold it was the beginning of the end. When I think of the good CEO'S, Menedue, Yates, Ward, people like Ritchie, Scott, and the rest, top of their game. And then came Dixon. What can I say, that has not been said. The breakup of one of the finest Engineering outfits in the world, employees suddenly finding themselves out the door after years of service, all loyality gone, then that dreadful day of the big hug. We have sold it they shrieked, and we all stood helplessly by and for some the bottom fell out of their world. We know now had it gone thru, QF would be no more, unless the Govt picked up the tab, and the irony of it is as the directors still sit counting their money, Joyce is now in a battle to keep it afloat. What to do? Get Borgetti back for one. Bring engineering back to being seamless for two. (and give the freckin things a bath) seriously involve employees from all sides of the company. Tell them the TRUTH about what is happening, and ask for help and suggestions (its amazing what happens when people feel involved) give the CC something to be proud of, and ditch the ones with attitude, fix up the food, give the ground staff in the front line a reason to enjoy their work, and then perhaps just perhaps the airline can be turned around. It might mean pairing with another airline if so, so be it. Losing QF would be like selling the War Memorial to the Japanese, unthinkable. It is too much aligned with the Australian way of life and the countries history and as I said unthinkable.
It's interesting that AJ's call for govt protection from foreign carriers comes in the midst of moves to offshore flight and cabin crew jobs. Bring in cheap pilot labour from O/S, while stopping Middle Eastern carriers from coming in and taking market share (ironically, often crewed by Aussies who went overseas looking for a fair deal)
Not unlike the kid on the cricket pitch holding tightly to both the bat and ball, until he realises he's become rather unpopular and has nobody left to play with...
Not unlike the kid on the cricket pitch holding tightly to both the bat and ball, until he realises he's become rather unpopular and has nobody left to play with...
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"The company was built by Operations."
Yes, and this was probably an acceptable way to run a Government department, which is what QF has been for most of its history.
But allowing a privatised airline to be operationally driven in todays market would be absurd.
Yes, and this was probably an acceptable way to run a Government department, which is what QF has been for most of its history.
But allowing a privatised airline to be operationally driven in todays market would be absurd.
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Jetstar has recently outsourced all its base/heavy maintenance to John Holland. OK, fair enough at the Jetstar level, they have found somebody to under cut the QF Engineering quote. But how can the QF Board allow such a situation to occur? When Qantas was doing the maintenance the cost was just a paperwork exercise on the balance sheet, now QF pays out hundreds of millions to another entity - money lost to the QF Group; QF Engineering loses economies of scale which drives up the cost of maintenance for mainline a/c.
The QF Board is either:-
A) Asleep at the wheel,
B) Intentionally driving QF into the ground,
C) Has no faith in the ability / quality of it's engineering staff,
D) All of the above.
(Can't wait for the Christmas Memo telling me what a wonderful job I have done, and how important it is to the QF group - not!)
The QF Board is either:-
A) Asleep at the wheel,
B) Intentionally driving QF into the ground,
C) Has no faith in the ability / quality of it's engineering staff,
D) All of the above.
(Can't wait for the Christmas Memo telling me what a wonderful job I have done, and how important it is to the QF group - not!)
Qantas could have had a magnificent future and produced excellent returns if it had innovated its way ahead instead of going the cost cutting route.
Jetstar is a farce, period. Jetstar Asia is a mistake, period. That business strategy of competing against yourself via jetstar is old. The name for it in business circles is "pissing in the soup" because it devalues the entire brand.
No one I know will fly Qantas anywhere by choice. This is partially due to mainline unreliability, partially due to the possibility that your itinerary may require you to fly a leg with Jetstar - something that people try and avoid, and partially because so many itineraries require a plane change at either Sydney or Brisbane which are nightmares because the international and domestic terminals are not co located.
Even my son, of the swinging Twenty something Iphone generation has had enough "jetstar is sh1t" was his final comment after a flight was cancelled on him, after he had checked his bags and couldn't retrieve them so that he could buy a VB ticket instead.
You could have had it all...
1. Get the head office the **** out of central Sydney and shove it in a warehouse somewhere near the airport. That could have been combined with putting an axe through head office staff numbers. You need a flat structure where decisions are made at the lowest level possible. "Group General managers? Executive general managers?? In a pissy little Australian company????"
2. Get heavy maintenance out of Sydney and put it some place cheaper.
3. Stop hubbing through Sydney and lengthening flight times for everyone who doesn't live in Sydney. We want direct flights!
4. The B787? Was there an engineer on the Board? The first carbon fibre airliner? And you risked the entire future of the business on the technical success of ONE aircraft type??????.....Oh, make that Two, I forgot the A380.
5. Starting cost cutting wars with your own employees? That's very bright. Don't you understand that an employee can affect your bottom line much faster than the Board can? Don't you undestand that every disaffected customer tells about Seven others of their rotten expereince? Its called word of mouth advertising.
6. Innovation? "Only Boards innovate." - ask Margaret Jackson. Pity your product is stale.
But keep going like you are. Wait until the next economic downturn and watch all those price sensitive Jetstar customers vanish like snow in the desert. Then where will you be? Wait until their is civil disturbance in the country where your MRO is based.
Boards are supposed to manage risk. By the time it is obvious that Qantas has not managed its risks, it will be too late. The RR A380 debacle was your final warning.
Jetstar is a farce, period. Jetstar Asia is a mistake, period. That business strategy of competing against yourself via jetstar is old. The name for it in business circles is "pissing in the soup" because it devalues the entire brand.
No one I know will fly Qantas anywhere by choice. This is partially due to mainline unreliability, partially due to the possibility that your itinerary may require you to fly a leg with Jetstar - something that people try and avoid, and partially because so many itineraries require a plane change at either Sydney or Brisbane which are nightmares because the international and domestic terminals are not co located.
Even my son, of the swinging Twenty something Iphone generation has had enough "jetstar is sh1t" was his final comment after a flight was cancelled on him, after he had checked his bags and couldn't retrieve them so that he could buy a VB ticket instead.
You could have had it all...
1. Get the head office the **** out of central Sydney and shove it in a warehouse somewhere near the airport. That could have been combined with putting an axe through head office staff numbers. You need a flat structure where decisions are made at the lowest level possible. "Group General managers? Executive general managers?? In a pissy little Australian company????"
2. Get heavy maintenance out of Sydney and put it some place cheaper.
3. Stop hubbing through Sydney and lengthening flight times for everyone who doesn't live in Sydney. We want direct flights!
4. The B787? Was there an engineer on the Board? The first carbon fibre airliner? And you risked the entire future of the business on the technical success of ONE aircraft type??????.....Oh, make that Two, I forgot the A380.
5. Starting cost cutting wars with your own employees? That's very bright. Don't you understand that an employee can affect your bottom line much faster than the Board can? Don't you undestand that every disaffected customer tells about Seven others of their rotten expereince? Its called word of mouth advertising.
6. Innovation? "Only Boards innovate." - ask Margaret Jackson. Pity your product is stale.
But keep going like you are. Wait until the next economic downturn and watch all those price sensitive Jetstar customers vanish like snow in the desert. Then where will you be? Wait until their is civil disturbance in the country where your MRO is based.
Boards are supposed to manage risk. By the time it is obvious that Qantas has not managed its risks, it will be too late. The RR A380 debacle was your final warning.
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What if plastic ain't fantastic?
Sunfish says mentions something that family member working for DJ has also raised, to my horror.
What if the 787 doesn't work? Everybody seems to believe that it is going to be a miracle machine. He's been showing me reports in the Seattle media that it ain't working at all well, and this is after all the delays and more to come.
He also says Boeing has been given the same corporate rooting that Qantas has been given. Totally trashed in terms of jobs and conditions and too much outsourced to foreign engineers who couldn't deliver.
What if the 787 doesn't work? Everybody seems to believe that it is going to be a miracle machine. He's been showing me reports in the Seattle media that it ain't working at all well, and this is after all the delays and more to come.
He also says Boeing has been given the same corporate rooting that Qantas has been given. Totally trashed in terms of jobs and conditions and too much outsourced to foreign engineers who couldn't deliver.
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....good post Sunfish.
Lets not forget where most of this sh!te we find ourselves in ....has come from.
Answer = Darth and the Dame during their "reign of terror" make the bloke in Egypt look like Prince Planet.
Bad decisions, pathetic "leadership" ,no strategic vision longer than 3 months, sustained unmitigated cost cutting (just for the sake of it !). I could go on for pages. Boring.
Now we have been ordered by "CC Management"....that we should never have a frown on board and try and always "talk up" Qantas to our customers (especially when in the middle of a 5 hour delay -engine change)
Sadly....we are all reaping what was planted years ago. The once happy, Aussie, friendly,proud , SAFE AND RELIABLE airline has been gutted and the carcass is sitting in the baking Sydney sun !
And yes......before someone says .....If you don't like it-LEAVE.
I AM.......on July 1.
I was lucky to work during the best years.......time to move on.
I surrender
Lets not forget where most of this sh!te we find ourselves in ....has come from.
Answer = Darth and the Dame during their "reign of terror" make the bloke in Egypt look like Prince Planet.
Bad decisions, pathetic "leadership" ,no strategic vision longer than 3 months, sustained unmitigated cost cutting (just for the sake of it !). I could go on for pages. Boring.
Now we have been ordered by "CC Management"....that we should never have a frown on board and try and always "talk up" Qantas to our customers (especially when in the middle of a 5 hour delay -engine change)
Sadly....we are all reaping what was planted years ago. The once happy, Aussie, friendly,proud , SAFE AND RELIABLE airline has been gutted and the carcass is sitting in the baking Sydney sun !
And yes......before someone says .....If you don't like it-LEAVE.
I AM.......on July 1.
I was lucky to work during the best years.......time to move on.
I surrender
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ABS Figures
The after Qantas chief Alan Joyce warned that international mainline operations were withering on the vine, new statistics show Qantas's A380 troubles drove down its November international market share to a record low of 18.7 per cent.
The sobering statistic means the group's total share of the international passenger market, including the 7.8 per cent commanded by Jetstar and 0.3 per cent attributed to Jetstar Asia, has fallen 1.4 percentage points to 26.8 per cent.
While much of the mainline 1 percentage point fall was probably due to the grounding of the A380 fleet after an engine explosion early in the month, it reflects a trend; in 2003, Qantas held 35 per cent of the market.
Mr Joyce has vowed to stop the decline and fix what he describes as underperforming business amid worries the full-service airline is approaching a critical point at which its network becomes so small that it begins to lose corporate customers.
He has given Lesley Grant a task force of 20 to sift through options of expanding and improving the flagship business.
Mr Joyce also warned of the capacity flooding into Australia from overseas airlines.
The market share of Singapore Airlines, which was also caught up in the A380 engine problems, fell 0.7 percentage points to 9.7 per cent.
Air New Zealand's share rose 0.8 points to 8.6 per cent, while Emirates dropped 0.3 points to 7.8 per cent.
Overall, the figures were good news for Australia. Passenger numbers on the 53 scheduled international airlines serving the country were up 6 per cent from November to 2.2 million.
Weather conditions on the east coast led airlines to post their third-worst on-time performance on record in December.
Cancellations were as high as 5 per cent on routes into Queensland.
The sobering statistic means the group's total share of the international passenger market, including the 7.8 per cent commanded by Jetstar and 0.3 per cent attributed to Jetstar Asia, has fallen 1.4 percentage points to 26.8 per cent.
While much of the mainline 1 percentage point fall was probably due to the grounding of the A380 fleet after an engine explosion early in the month, it reflects a trend; in 2003, Qantas held 35 per cent of the market.
Mr Joyce has vowed to stop the decline and fix what he describes as underperforming business amid worries the full-service airline is approaching a critical point at which its network becomes so small that it begins to lose corporate customers.
He has given Lesley Grant a task force of 20 to sift through options of expanding and improving the flagship business.
Mr Joyce also warned of the capacity flooding into Australia from overseas airlines.
The market share of Singapore Airlines, which was also caught up in the A380 engine problems, fell 0.7 percentage points to 9.7 per cent.
Air New Zealand's share rose 0.8 points to 8.6 per cent, while Emirates dropped 0.3 points to 7.8 per cent.
Overall, the figures were good news for Australia. Passenger numbers on the 53 scheduled international airlines serving the country were up 6 per cent from November to 2.2 million.
Weather conditions on the east coast led airlines to post their third-worst on-time performance on record in December.
Cancellations were as high as 5 per cent on routes into Queensland.
Last edited by Crossing Guard; 4th Feb 2011 at 21:29.
Gotta love the insert in the latest non QANTAS staff News.
'OUR AMBITION: TO BE THE WORLD'S BEST PREMIUM AIRLINE'
And under VALUES DRIVE BEHAVIOURS,
Please take the time to read and remember these;
Safety - I demonstrate a genuine commitment to safety.
Service - I have a can-do attitude and I deliver my part of the customer promise.
Innovation. I challange the way things are done and take ownership for finding a better way.
Colloboration - I work with other to create a winning culture and an enjoyable place to work.
Integrity. I am open, I listen and speak honestly and respectfully.
No doubt you guys still in there would have had a good laugh at the HR/Senior Executive produced ****e.
Wasn't there long myself (by today's standards) and left many years ago now but started there when it was a great place to work and still follow the airline with plenty of ex staff. Could throw up many a name of ex staff with plenty more experience than Joyce and his team and all would do the job better, for less with one aim only and that would be to turn the place around.
As Teresa Green said, so very sad to read of of these comments.
'OUR AMBITION: TO BE THE WORLD'S BEST PREMIUM AIRLINE'
And under VALUES DRIVE BEHAVIOURS,
Please take the time to read and remember these;
Safety - I demonstrate a genuine commitment to safety.
Service - I have a can-do attitude and I deliver my part of the customer promise.
Innovation. I challange the way things are done and take ownership for finding a better way.
Colloboration - I work with other to create a winning culture and an enjoyable place to work.
Integrity. I am open, I listen and speak honestly and respectfully.
No doubt you guys still in there would have had a good laugh at the HR/Senior Executive produced ****e.
Wasn't there long myself (by today's standards) and left many years ago now but started there when it was a great place to work and still follow the airline with plenty of ex staff. Could throw up many a name of ex staff with plenty more experience than Joyce and his team and all would do the job better, for less with one aim only and that would be to turn the place around.
As Teresa Green said, so very sad to read of of these comments.
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Teresa Green. Do you really think Virgin will let Borgetthi go back to Qantas? He seems to have a goal in challenging Qantas and has already 'poached' several senior Qantas Managers, one I'm led to believe with QF for over 42 years!
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One of things QANTAS needs to do to win back passengers is compete on fares.
MEL-LAX Business return $8171 on QF or $4604 on VA.
What do i get on QF that I don't get on VA that is worth $3567?
MEL-LAX Business return $8171 on QF or $4604 on VA.
What do i get on QF that I don't get on VA that is worth $3567?
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Values Drive Behaviour
Whoever writes this stuff probably has good intentions but is not really connected to the reality of working at Qantas
The environment is punitive.Lets take innovation for example.Qantas used to have a staff suggestion scheme whereby ideas from employees were evaluated and rewarded if implemented.
That scheme was rwemoved by Munch Punch and Crunch a consulting firm.
Today you approach your manager with an idea and it becomes a confrontation.You are told managment knows best and that you are obviously not on the same page and are being negative and critical.Your head is now above the radar.You are then closely scrutinized to a point where you retreat back to your box.
You are not so much disengaged but marginalized and excluded.
"Just Culture" has become known as "Just Lip Service"
..........and so it goes on in a never ending downward spiral until eventually....poof! No offence intended Allan
The environment is punitive.Lets take innovation for example.Qantas used to have a staff suggestion scheme whereby ideas from employees were evaluated and rewarded if implemented.
That scheme was rwemoved by Munch Punch and Crunch a consulting firm.
Today you approach your manager with an idea and it becomes a confrontation.You are told managment knows best and that you are obviously not on the same page and are being negative and critical.Your head is now above the radar.You are then closely scrutinized to a point where you retreat back to your box.
You are not so much disengaged but marginalized and excluded.
"Just Culture" has become known as "Just Lip Service"
..........and so it goes on in a never ending downward spiral until eventually....poof! No offence intended Allan
When QF and J* stop treating the staff as the enemy then there might be a turnaround. Successful airlines such as Southwest and even ANZ (when you consider where it was) consider their staff an asset not a liabilty. It would seem to be a simple proposition but one that the Executive don't consider to be worth anything to the bottom line.
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Teresa m'dear
What makes you think Mr Borghetti would even consider coming back.
He has a point to prove. He has assembled his team, and is about too launch his salvo.
The train has well and truly left the station. Unless he could take with him the entire retinue that he has attracted to Virgin, why would he contemplate jumping off the moving vehicle.
Nah he won't move. It would be a betrayal of those whom have put their faith in him.
He can have a whole lot more fun and prove himself far more effectively by finishing the work that devious little bow tied prick and his protege, scrotum face, started with the able assistance of the clueless Dame. The ultimate destruction of a once proud but latterly arrogant icon.
(Buy me a beer and I'll tell you what I really think of them)
SS
What makes you think Mr Borghetti would even consider coming back.
He has a point to prove. He has assembled his team, and is about too launch his salvo.
The train has well and truly left the station. Unless he could take with him the entire retinue that he has attracted to Virgin, why would he contemplate jumping off the moving vehicle.
Nah he won't move. It would be a betrayal of those whom have put their faith in him.
He can have a whole lot more fun and prove himself far more effectively by finishing the work that devious little bow tied prick and his protege, scrotum face, started with the able assistance of the clueless Dame. The ultimate destruction of a once proud but latterly arrogant icon.
(Buy me a beer and I'll tell you what I really think of them)
SS
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Scam sniffer,
You are right, why would he even think about it, been there done that and moved on.
The rat is wounded (how much is yet to be determined) so don't think for a moment any strong player is going to sit back and take it easy on them. The players in the sand pit are circling so wait for it and Singapore are yet to again stick their head up to show their hand (ie Pacific rights issue again).
Unless carefully managed by the rat these things have a habit of becoming self fulfilling prophesies, rightly so or not.
Confidence is everything in this financial world and if the punters are not happy they speak with their $$$$ and don't give a toss about anything else.
Loyalty counts for nil and they discarded me as a platinum flyer after many years of loyal patronage and the haste was pretty stunning even if deserved. It is not what you do, its how you do it. Now they want loyalty, I don't think so.
You are right, why would he even think about it, been there done that and moved on.
The rat is wounded (how much is yet to be determined) so don't think for a moment any strong player is going to sit back and take it easy on them. The players in the sand pit are circling so wait for it and Singapore are yet to again stick their head up to show their hand (ie Pacific rights issue again).
Unless carefully managed by the rat these things have a habit of becoming self fulfilling prophesies, rightly so or not.
Confidence is everything in this financial world and if the punters are not happy they speak with their $$$$ and don't give a toss about anything else.
Loyalty counts for nil and they discarded me as a platinum flyer after many years of loyal patronage and the haste was pretty stunning even if deserved. It is not what you do, its how you do it. Now they want loyalty, I don't think so.
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Heard the Leprechaun on the radio the other morning bragging that he was not worried about Virgin and Borghetti at all and his own words "I doubt they will impact on our business class market at all"
Well thats the arrogance and head in the sand attitude that has led qantas to where it is now. To where the business class product is average compared to most other asia/pacific carriers and that JB will be loving. I wonder in 2 years from now will we be saying Mmmm I wonder why Virgin now has 20% of the corporate traffic.
JB will be loving it watching this fool who is out of his depth.
Well thats the arrogance and head in the sand attitude that has led qantas to where it is now. To where the business class product is average compared to most other asia/pacific carriers and that JB will be loving. I wonder in 2 years from now will we be saying Mmmm I wonder why Virgin now has 20% of the corporate traffic.
JB will be loving it watching this fool who is out of his depth.