Qantas~ A Business in Decline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On the chopping board.
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Brand damage due safety incidents, disengaged workforce, poor choice of fleet, well what would one expect???
I would also expect a few wolf cries thrown in for good measure due to possible upcoming industrial action.
I would also expect a few wolf cries thrown in for good measure due to possible upcoming industrial action.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
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Anyone else prepared to join me, going cap in hand to Borghetti? He has the balls to get QF out of this, and they need him badly. Whoever is responsible for him leaving, should be shot. Slowly.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: God`s Country
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Borghetti
Il Duce is having the time of his life at Virgin.He has a few mates with him and the place has a real buzz about it.Branson might have something to say about him leaving.Leigh Clifford is definitley not the type to admit to a mistake.
Borghetti happy
Virgin Happy
Joyce clueless
Qantas unhappy
Lets start a list of qantas mistakes over the last ten years.
1.TAA takes over Qantas.All red tail men gone
2.Domestic mindset infiltrates Qantas international
3,Cost cutting starts
4.Bonuses for managment start.
5.Divine right to manage edict implemented .
6.Wrong people employed in IT and Aircraft Operations.
7.Airbus enters the picture.Wrong aircraft type for wrong operation introduced
8.An attempt to streamline legacy computer systems fails(EQ)
9.The nexus of Price fixing in freight begins
10.Impulse airlines bought and transformed into Australian Airlines and fails.
11.Foreign bases begin BKK,LHR and AKL
12.Maintenance off shoring begins.
13.An attempt to destroy the Qantas Culture now in fullswing
14.Employees marginalized and generally treated with contempt.
15.Boeing 777 viewed as old technology and disregarded.
16 Dixon attempts to sell Qantas and fails
17.The rot really sets in.
18.Service training and quality declines.
19.Maintenance problems reach concerning levels.
20.JetStar now well and trult in the ascendancy.Mainline languishes
21.Joyce finally admits.....Australia we have a problem.
A few problems may have been missed and the chronology might be off.....but hey you get the picture
Borghetti happy
Virgin Happy
Joyce clueless
Qantas unhappy
Lets start a list of qantas mistakes over the last ten years.
1.TAA takes over Qantas.All red tail men gone
2.Domestic mindset infiltrates Qantas international
3,Cost cutting starts
4.Bonuses for managment start.
5.Divine right to manage edict implemented .
6.Wrong people employed in IT and Aircraft Operations.
7.Airbus enters the picture.Wrong aircraft type for wrong operation introduced
8.An attempt to streamline legacy computer systems fails(EQ)
9.The nexus of Price fixing in freight begins
10.Impulse airlines bought and transformed into Australian Airlines and fails.
11.Foreign bases begin BKK,LHR and AKL
12.Maintenance off shoring begins.
13.An attempt to destroy the Qantas Culture now in fullswing
14.Employees marginalized and generally treated with contempt.
15.Boeing 777 viewed as old technology and disregarded.
16 Dixon attempts to sell Qantas and fails
17.The rot really sets in.
18.Service training and quality declines.
19.Maintenance problems reach concerning levels.
20.JetStar now well and trult in the ascendancy.Mainline languishes
21.Joyce finally admits.....Australia we have a problem.
A few problems may have been missed and the chronology might be off.....but hey you get the picture
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wherever the job takes me...
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I have good friends at both QF & JQ, therefore I feel for them in terms of the frustrations they must be having in their current work environment. I'm not going to resort to Qantas-bashing, as I think it fair to say there are many decent, hard-working people at the coalface, & in spite of working for the opposition I have a great deal of respect for the airline it USED to be. That said, every day I go to work I'm more & more appreciative of the fact that The Rat's loss is our gain. Yes, VB still has a number of issues to sort out, but for the most part I think we are finally headed in the right direction - in no small part because of JB's experience & vision for our future.
As has already been said, the QF board will regret the day they overlooked JB for the top job - if they haven't already.
As has already been said, the QF board will regret the day they overlooked JB for the top job - if they haven't already.
I am deeply saddened when I pull up on a bay next to a QF 767 or an older of the 800s. The paint is falling off, the water stains leave streaks down the sides of the fuselage and they just look tired. Pretty much like the airline.
I noticed the QF Pilots slink around with rounded shoulders, hats under their arms, they just don't seem to strut the terminal like they used too.
It's a disgrace and what is left when you strip a company to promote a short term balance sheet and increase a bonus.
I think there should be a senate enquiry and a royal commission into this mess.
Joyce could start to get the troops back onside by promising the first 787s to Qantas and getting hold of 777-300ERs now. If only.....
I noticed the QF Pilots slink around with rounded shoulders, hats under their arms, they just don't seem to strut the terminal like they used too.
It's a disgrace and what is left when you strip a company to promote a short term balance sheet and increase a bonus.
I think there should be a senate enquiry and a royal commission into this mess.
Joyce could start to get the troops back onside by promising the first 787s to Qantas and getting hold of 777-300ERs now. If only.....
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bundeena(AUSTRALIA)
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Pan Am and Qantas Comparison
In the late 70s when Pan AM was in decline I remember a senior Captain telling me how you could tell when an airline was in trouble.The appearance of its aircraft told it all.As observed in the previous post Pan Am aircraft were water and oil stained and looked as though they hadnt been washed for months.We all know what to that Airline.After that I always made a mental note of aircraft appearance as an indicator of the airlines health.
Qantas aircraft have had a Pan Am look for years
Qantas aircraft have had a Pan Am look for years
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I don't know why it is so hard to understand - Qantas cannot get the 777 now - it is too late. They've committed to the 78.
Remember that when the future fleet plan was devised, delivery and operation of this type would have already occurred. You would not be seeing these clapped-out 76's still flying around. They took a punt on two new aircraft types - risky? Yes, however they did that and suffered on both accounts (both types delayed).
Whether that was the right or wrong thing to do is in the past - the fact is Qantas cannot go with the 777 now, too costly and not workable considering the 78's are slated for delivery.
Delivery to Jetstar first - yes. A necessity. Jetstar needs to grow, in particular their pan-Asian strategy. Jetstar needs to capitalise on economies of scale to reduced costs and deliver better returns especially now where there is over-capacity in the market and yields are taking a hit. Scale benefits only come with growth and the delay in the 78's is preventing that growth, which is also allowing competitors to enter the market before Jetstar.
You've got to move on re the 777. It is not going to happen - we're too far past that now. It's 380's and 78's. End of story.
Remember that when the future fleet plan was devised, delivery and operation of this type would have already occurred. You would not be seeing these clapped-out 76's still flying around. They took a punt on two new aircraft types - risky? Yes, however they did that and suffered on both accounts (both types delayed).
Whether that was the right or wrong thing to do is in the past - the fact is Qantas cannot go with the 777 now, too costly and not workable considering the 78's are slated for delivery.
Delivery to Jetstar first - yes. A necessity. Jetstar needs to grow, in particular their pan-Asian strategy. Jetstar needs to capitalise on economies of scale to reduced costs and deliver better returns especially now where there is over-capacity in the market and yields are taking a hit. Scale benefits only come with growth and the delay in the 78's is preventing that growth, which is also allowing competitors to enter the market before Jetstar.
You've got to move on re the 777. It is not going to happen - we're too far past that now. It's 380's and 78's. End of story.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0198; 4th Feb 2011 at 09:16.
Join Date: May 2009
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Who is Responsible ?
The hypocrisy in corporate Australia is astonishing.Qantas is a perfect example.Employees can be castigated and punished for all manner of minute transgressions against their employer.Rise above the shop floor and you become immune to accountability.As management you enjoy many forms of privilege.You'd have to key the Chairmans Bentley to get the flick.
Look at the clusterfarks that have occurred at Qantas over the last decade.Is/has anyone been held accountable?
Now we have Joyce making this proclamation about the airlines financial health .Who is responsible and are they going to pay a penalty for their ineptitude,incomptence and negligence?
Qantas is called many names these days and made fun of in many quarters.But Animal Farm has a certain resonance.The plausible deniability,the sense of entitlement,the lack remorse and the surging incompetence that exists in Qantas executive ranks is truly stomache churning.
There is no justice.Time for a revolution to re instate it
T-Vasis it is indeed getting close to the end of the story
Look at the clusterfarks that have occurred at Qantas over the last decade.Is/has anyone been held accountable?
Now we have Joyce making this proclamation about the airlines financial health .Who is responsible and are they going to pay a penalty for their ineptitude,incomptence and negligence?
Qantas is called many names these days and made fun of in many quarters.But Animal Farm has a certain resonance.The plausible deniability,the sense of entitlement,the lack remorse and the surging incompetence that exists in Qantas executive ranks is truly stomache churning.
There is no justice.Time for a revolution to re instate it
T-Vasis it is indeed getting close to the end of the story
Tvasis:
That is crap. There are no such things as "economies of scale" anymore. That is the thrust of all developments of the last Fifty years.
I have an MBA from Melbourne, and even I know this.
As soon as I heard the words "Legacy Airline" I knew your entire Board and Senior Management were ****ed.
Why? I tried that line myself in the IT industry and had to eat humble pie. There are eternal verities in any business and to think you can dispense with them is suicide.
Delivery to Jetstar first - yes. A necessity. Jetstar needs to grow, in particular their pan-Asian strategy. Jetstar needs to capitalise on economies of scale to reduced costs and deliver better returns especially now where there is over-capacity in the market and yields are taking a hit. Scale benefits only come with growth and the delay in the 78's is preventing that growth, which is also allowing competitors to enter the market before Jetstar.
I have an MBA from Melbourne, and even I know this.
As soon as I heard the words "Legacy Airline" I knew your entire Board and Senior Management were ****ed.
Why? I tried that line myself in the IT industry and had to eat humble pie. There are eternal verities in any business and to think you can dispense with them is suicide.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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T-vasi, you say the 787's need to go to Jetstar for growth. Why not put the 787's in Qantas colours and as they arrive send QF A330's to Jetstar? Satisfies their growth, doesn't add to their costs as they don't need to introduce a new type?
Or is it just another way to make Jetstar look more competitive against QF.
Jetstar an all Airbus company & Qantas with a huge amount of Boeing experience to rejuvenate their brand with the most advanced aircraft in the skies. Why does this not make sense??
Or is it just another way to make Jetstar look more competitive against QF.
Jetstar an all Airbus company & Qantas with a huge amount of Boeing experience to rejuvenate their brand with the most advanced aircraft in the skies. Why does this not make sense??
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Sunfish - the LCC realm operates on a continuous circle:
- low fares;
- stimulates demand;
- grows capacity to meet that demand;
- delivers cost savings through scale; and
- delivers greater margins;
- which delivers lower fares...
And the circle continues.
Scale benefits do exist. A gang of rampies who are required to be paid for a min of four hours are going to deliver better output (return on investment) turning around 10 flights versus 2.
One gang for 10 turns versus one gang for 2 turns...pretty compelling...and were talking very high level here...
-438 - the 330 does not deliver on Jetstar's expansion plans as effectively as the 78. Remember range is a big factor which the 78 outperforms the 330. Point-to-point is fundamental to Jetstar in reducing operating cost and complexity. In addition the 78 delivers better fuel efficiency. Margins on LCC operations are very thin - so cost is paramount since the yield flex available to "full service carriers" is not readily available to LCC's. It's a balance of yield, seat factor and ancillary revenue which determine profitability for LCC's...
The 78's (based on the Boeing) will deliver a better return on the investment than the 330's - so for Jetstar (in competition with other operators who deliver better unit costs i.e. Air Asia) and as such, price agressivly (I recently flew SIN | KUL on Air Asia for $12 and this fare was purchased the day before departure
)) means JQ needs every opportunity it can deliver on cost reduction to drive an "acceptable" margin and remain viable on that market.
- low fares;
- stimulates demand;
- grows capacity to meet that demand;
- delivers cost savings through scale; and
- delivers greater margins;
- which delivers lower fares...
And the circle continues.
Scale benefits do exist. A gang of rampies who are required to be paid for a min of four hours are going to deliver better output (return on investment) turning around 10 flights versus 2.
One gang for 10 turns versus one gang for 2 turns...pretty compelling...and were talking very high level here...
-438 - the 330 does not deliver on Jetstar's expansion plans as effectively as the 78. Remember range is a big factor which the 78 outperforms the 330. Point-to-point is fundamental to Jetstar in reducing operating cost and complexity. In addition the 78 delivers better fuel efficiency. Margins on LCC operations are very thin - so cost is paramount since the yield flex available to "full service carriers" is not readily available to LCC's. It's a balance of yield, seat factor and ancillary revenue which determine profitability for LCC's...
The 78's (based on the Boeing) will deliver a better return on the investment than the 330's - so for Jetstar (in competition with other operators who deliver better unit costs i.e. Air Asia) and as such, price agressivly (I recently flew SIN | KUL on Air Asia for $12 and this fare was purchased the day before departure
)) means JQ needs every opportunity it can deliver on cost reduction to drive an "acceptable" margin and remain viable on that market.Last edited by PPRuNeUser0198; 4th Feb 2011 at 09:47.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Why not just have Jetstar fly any new Qantas services with nice new 787's painted in QF colours? Happens with Jetconnect now.
Public is happy with the new improved Qantas. JQ pilots will fall over each other at the chance to crew them on Singapore conditions so they will be happy. Joyce will be happy because it will look like Qantas will be expanding.
Problem solved...
Public is happy with the new improved Qantas. JQ pilots will fall over each other at the chance to crew them on Singapore conditions so they will be happy. Joyce will be happy because it will look like Qantas will be expanding.
Problem solved...
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Fair Dinkum TVasis. You must be a wannabe fleet manager or greasy pole climber to believe that rhetoric.
By your reasoning, give all the new equipment to Jetstar, lower their costs, and leave QF with clapped out 767's floating aroung the traps. Add to that, give them back a few of the clapped out 10 year old plus 330's, which all of a sudden cost a truckload to maintain (rumour is the Bus is much cheaper to maintain for the first 7 years compared to a Boeing but costs a lot more the older it gets).
Net cost to the group overall - zilch. Cost to Qantas - huge. Advantage to Jetstar (in plain english - subsidy).
Big Picture - Jetstar must succeed in the books at all costs otherwise management would have major egg on their faces for starting it in the first place (given that particular strategy has NEVER worked for any other carrier that has tried it). Particularly since such huge bonuses for individuals were generated by making it look so good.
By your reasoning, give all the new equipment to Jetstar, lower their costs, and leave QF with clapped out 767's floating aroung the traps. Add to that, give them back a few of the clapped out 10 year old plus 330's, which all of a sudden cost a truckload to maintain (rumour is the Bus is much cheaper to maintain for the first 7 years compared to a Boeing but costs a lot more the older it gets).
Net cost to the group overall - zilch. Cost to Qantas - huge. Advantage to Jetstar (in plain english - subsidy).
Big Picture - Jetstar must succeed in the books at all costs otherwise management would have major egg on their faces for starting it in the first place (given that particular strategy has NEVER worked for any other carrier that has tried it). Particularly since such huge bonuses for individuals were generated by making it look so good.
...An error isn't a mistake unless you do nothing to fix it...
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NZScion - Qantas (back in 2000 I think) set about "renewing" their fleet.
That means purchases of a bit more than a few aeroplanes. Picking up a couple of 777 won't solve Qantas's problems - they need to replace everything.
This was a decision made some 10 years ago. Qantas saw the 78's as a technological innovation and a platform that would deliver exceptional economics and flexibility - obviously better than the 777 variant at the time.
Remember - the aeroplane would already be in service today and there was no Jetstar back then - not even conception. So in theory - Qantas would be well into delivery and use of the 78's and 380's today, coupled with Q400 Dash 8's, 71's and the 738's - that's a modern and efficient asset base of metal.
But, in the cyclical and dynamic world of aviation and airlines - that plan has deviated somewhat.
Still - Qantas has no choice but to commit to the 78 now. It is too late to do anything else.
That means purchases of a bit more than a few aeroplanes. Picking up a couple of 777 won't solve Qantas's problems - they need to replace everything.
This was a decision made some 10 years ago. Qantas saw the 78's as a technological innovation and a platform that would deliver exceptional economics and flexibility - obviously better than the 777 variant at the time.
Remember - the aeroplane would already be in service today and there was no Jetstar back then - not even conception. So in theory - Qantas would be well into delivery and use of the 78's and 380's today, coupled with Q400 Dash 8's, 71's and the 738's - that's a modern and efficient asset base of metal.
But, in the cyclical and dynamic world of aviation and airlines - that plan has deviated somewhat.
Still - Qantas has no choice but to commit to the 78 now. It is too late to do anything else.
Tvasis, that does not work because it does not capture the full life cycle costs of providing the service.
The Ryanair model is basically "I'll force everyone else out of business through lower prices, then raise mine and clean up!"
I'm afraid that does not work. I always sent my worst customers to my cheapest competitors. Worked every time.
Jetstar will suddenly have profitability problems...............
They will impact "The Qantas Group" ho ho! Hee hee! Har har!
The Ryanair model is basically "I'll force everyone else out of business through lower prices, then raise mine and clean up!"
I'm afraid that does not work. I always sent my worst customers to my cheapest competitors. Worked every time.
Jetstar will suddenly have profitability problems...............
They will impact "The Qantas Group" ho ho! Hee hee! Har har!