Air NZ Approach Briefing
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Getting back to the original topic for a moment, many airlines around the world including mine roster pilots for airport briefings etc from home (ie a paid work day). I have done briefings under both systems and much prefer the briefings from home so long as it is a rostered duty. Generally I do my briefings on an overnight and enjoy an extra day off at home 
. Or maybe you prefer the extra driving (in AKL traffic) and hanging around work, each to their own.
Re NZALPA, I agree that they need to take better care of their non ANZ pilot members. For example discussion of the Jet Connect/QF situation, a major issue which should also concern ANZ members with any foresight, being left until after many trivial ANZ items at a recent ALPA meeting. ALPAs real agenda with regard to this issue seems unclear. Are they really acting in members best interests?
I agree with Remoak completely, NZALPA is a crap union that needs to stop spending its time gazing into ANZ navals and actually act in all its members best interests.
. Or maybe you prefer the extra driving (in AKL traffic) and hanging around work, each to their own.Re NZALPA, I agree that they need to take better care of their non ANZ pilot members. For example discussion of the Jet Connect/QF situation, a major issue which should also concern ANZ members with any foresight, being left until after many trivial ANZ items at a recent ALPA meeting. ALPAs real agenda with regard to this issue seems unclear. Are they really acting in members best interests?
I agree with Remoak completely, NZALPA is a crap union that needs to stop spending its time gazing into ANZ navals and actually act in all its members best interests.
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Welcome Hunter. Hows Colorado?
Re working from home and doing things on layovers etc. I am all for it. As long as it is rostered and the employer does not start to take liberties.
As for Jetconnect. I know of one of their pilots who was very outspoken on ALPA and how crappy they were when he flew the link routes. He got into Jetconnect and joined ALPA because the terms and conditions were so much better. Actually come to think of it there may have been two.
One thing I would suggest to those in Jet Connect complaining about how crap ALPA is. LEAVE!!! Form your own union. Join the Feds. Hey you can all join Remoaks "Quite alot" management interfacers I hear they're making progress.
OR........CHANGE ALPA
The union is only as good as it's members. Stop whinging in flight decks about ALPA not doing anything. Attend your meetings and start asking questions such as WHATS GOING ON?
Hang on.......isn't that what Alpapilot did at the start of this thread?
Re working from home and doing things on layovers etc. I am all for it. As long as it is rostered and the employer does not start to take liberties.
As for Jetconnect. I know of one of their pilots who was very outspoken on ALPA and how crappy they were when he flew the link routes. He got into Jetconnect and joined ALPA because the terms and conditions were so much better. Actually come to think of it there may have been two.
One thing I would suggest to those in Jet Connect complaining about how crap ALPA is. LEAVE!!! Form your own union. Join the Feds. Hey you can all join Remoaks "Quite alot" management interfacers I hear they're making progress.
OR........CHANGE ALPA
The union is only as good as it's members. Stop whinging in flight decks about ALPA not doing anything. Attend your meetings and start asking questions such as WHATS GOING ON?
Hang on.......isn't that what Alpapilot did at the start of this thread?
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Hey you can all join Remoaks "Quite alot" management interfacers I hear they're making progress.
Nothing.
The union is only as good as it's members]
Another little object lesson for you. Back in the day, BALPA took their eye off the ball, just as NZALPA have. The result was a new union, the IPA (Independent Pilots Association). The IPA managed to suck up a bunch of BALPA members, weakening BALPA in the process. The IPA had a far more enlightened approach than the BA-centred BALPA, and is now a powerful force for non-BA pilots.
With any luck at all, something similar could happen here. If only wishing made it so!
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IPA sounds exactly what GA needs then Remoak. Don't wish it, do it. Off you go form one. See what it takes to get the GA pilots off their butts and into action.
In 2005 ALPA had 160 GA members on their books. That equaled the members at Air Nsn. Alpa then employed 2 liason officers for the North and South Islands respectively. They then called for GA members to volunteer and form a specific GA council that would address GA issues. I had just been accepted into a regional so I was unable to put my hand up. However none of the pilots in my company or the one next door, all doing the hard yards and complaining about it, took the opportunity to get involved.
I cannot tell you what happened to that council but I can guess. It either never got of the ground because no GA members were interested or the instructors from the big companies were interested and ran with it which is why they are represented as they are today.
The members do run ALPA. The top positions are occupied by members who are voted in. If members outside of ANZ feel they are not represented fairly they are welcome to combine forces and get one of their own in a top position. If I were in JC I would contact the PB council and the Jetstar members and vote a Non ANZ member into the Industrial Coordinators or even the Presidents position. That way they can have direct influence on how ALPA is managed and where resources are allocated.
I admit this would be hard for those in GA as they do not have the numbers to stack the vote. But they do have the numbers to form a council that reports to the Board of Management and partition them for support.
What would I do for the GA pilots flying around at night covered in ice? Firstly I would tell them to refuse to fly a non deicing equiped aircraft into know icing conditions unless route MSA is lower than the freezing level or other escape options exist. I would then get them to record what their boss says to them when they refuse. Either on tape or have a witness. If their boss bullies them or threatens them I would get free Union legal representation and take a pg against them.
By the way I have refused to fly for this exact reason and my boss said sweet no worries. It just takes guts and that comes from the knowledge that support is close at hand.
In 2005 ALPA had 160 GA members on their books. That equaled the members at Air Nsn. Alpa then employed 2 liason officers for the North and South Islands respectively. They then called for GA members to volunteer and form a specific GA council that would address GA issues. I had just been accepted into a regional so I was unable to put my hand up. However none of the pilots in my company or the one next door, all doing the hard yards and complaining about it, took the opportunity to get involved.
I cannot tell you what happened to that council but I can guess. It either never got of the ground because no GA members were interested or the instructors from the big companies were interested and ran with it which is why they are represented as they are today.
The members do run ALPA. The top positions are occupied by members who are voted in. If members outside of ANZ feel they are not represented fairly they are welcome to combine forces and get one of their own in a top position. If I were in JC I would contact the PB council and the Jetstar members and vote a Non ANZ member into the Industrial Coordinators or even the Presidents position. That way they can have direct influence on how ALPA is managed and where resources are allocated.
I admit this would be hard for those in GA as they do not have the numbers to stack the vote. But they do have the numbers to form a council that reports to the Board of Management and partition them for support.
What would I do for the GA pilots flying around at night covered in ice? Firstly I would tell them to refuse to fly a non deicing equiped aircraft into know icing conditions unless route MSA is lower than the freezing level or other escape options exist. I would then get them to record what their boss says to them when they refuse. Either on tape or have a witness. If their boss bullies them or threatens them I would get free Union legal representation and take a pg against them.
By the way I have refused to fly for this exact reason and my boss said sweet no worries. It just takes guts and that comes from the knowledge that support is close at hand.
Last edited by Bongo Bus Driver; 27th Jan 2011 at 02:21.
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This hot of the emial from ALPA
For all you non believers this straight of the email......
Inquiry Into Civil Flying Training Safety
Dear member
Just prior to Christmas I requested feedback on the survey being conducted by The Transport Accident Commission (TAIC) on matters relating to civil flying training safety in New Zealand. As mentioned NZALPA will make a submission to TAIC by the deadline of 21st Feb 2011.
As this survey has come as a result of the significant increase in mid air collisions and near misses in the GA sector I consider the NZALPA submission on this subject of great importance so would like to urge any members who have not responded thus far to contribute from your first hand knowledge and experience. So far we have a good number of submissions under the following subject headings. Your contributions and experience are what make NZALPA the professional organization that it is today, so consider your role and contribute as it will make a difference.
Issues:
· Increased traffic:
o relying on "See and Avoid Principle" at smaller uncontrolled airports;
o congestion at uncontrolled airports;
o overloading inexperienced pilot's situational awareness.
· Aviation English proficiency pilots/students:
o unable to clearly transmit their position and intention to other pilots;
o mispronunciation of local Maori place names thereby causing uncertainty or inaccuracy of their position and intention to other pilots;
o not understanding other aircraft transmissions of position and intent thereby not gaining situational awareness.
· Pilots who have been mainly taught to fly in a radar environment becoming confused as to their position and appropriate tracking procedures when in a non-radar environment with no controller to ask.
· Student pilots transmitting inaccurate positions when no instructor is on board.
· Pilots not taking in or misunderstanding other aircraft transmissions resulting in a lack of situational awareness.
· Poor standard of radio skills in the GA sector - both student and PPL pilots.
· Lower time/experience instructors that are less supervised and therefore lacking the initial and consolidated skills to impart key learning points to students.
· Training of new pilots often in the hands of some of the industry's most inexperienced with only basic training or teaching skills.
· Funded organisations committing students to the churn of full time ground schools for the purpose of processing more students ie: concentrating on passing PPL/CPL exams rather than providing an integrated learning and flying experience to develop sustainable and educationally sound aviation skills.
Safety suggestions put forward for consideration:
· Mandate transponders for all aircraft including sport, recreational and gliders.
· Mandate traffic avoidance systems (TAS) for all commercial aircraft (below 12500kg) and portable non TSO'ed awareness systems for all powered aircraft.
· Re-establish ATC and or ATS surveillance coverage at the busier and/or mixed traffic airports - virtual towers could be considered for the more remote locations.
· Update pilot licensing to ICAO Annex 1 and address the syllabi for pilots exams.
· Ensure that the ICAO Proficiency in English Language standards is achieving the required standards and is done complied with prior to flight. Optimal use of training devices to achieve a sustainable standard.
Please send feedback to [email protected] by early February 2011.
Thanks and regards
Stu Julian
Technical Director
NZALPA
For all you non believers this straight of the email......
Inquiry Into Civil Flying Training Safety
Dear member
Just prior to Christmas I requested feedback on the survey being conducted by The Transport Accident Commission (TAIC) on matters relating to civil flying training safety in New Zealand. As mentioned NZALPA will make a submission to TAIC by the deadline of 21st Feb 2011.
As this survey has come as a result of the significant increase in mid air collisions and near misses in the GA sector I consider the NZALPA submission on this subject of great importance so would like to urge any members who have not responded thus far to contribute from your first hand knowledge and experience. So far we have a good number of submissions under the following subject headings. Your contributions and experience are what make NZALPA the professional organization that it is today, so consider your role and contribute as it will make a difference.
Issues:
· Increased traffic:
o relying on "See and Avoid Principle" at smaller uncontrolled airports;
o congestion at uncontrolled airports;
o overloading inexperienced pilot's situational awareness.
· Aviation English proficiency pilots/students:
o unable to clearly transmit their position and intention to other pilots;
o mispronunciation of local Maori place names thereby causing uncertainty or inaccuracy of their position and intention to other pilots;
o not understanding other aircraft transmissions of position and intent thereby not gaining situational awareness.
· Pilots who have been mainly taught to fly in a radar environment becoming confused as to their position and appropriate tracking procedures when in a non-radar environment with no controller to ask.
· Student pilots transmitting inaccurate positions when no instructor is on board.
· Pilots not taking in or misunderstanding other aircraft transmissions resulting in a lack of situational awareness.
· Poor standard of radio skills in the GA sector - both student and PPL pilots.
· Lower time/experience instructors that are less supervised and therefore lacking the initial and consolidated skills to impart key learning points to students.
· Training of new pilots often in the hands of some of the industry's most inexperienced with only basic training or teaching skills.
· Funded organisations committing students to the churn of full time ground schools for the purpose of processing more students ie: concentrating on passing PPL/CPL exams rather than providing an integrated learning and flying experience to develop sustainable and educationally sound aviation skills.
Safety suggestions put forward for consideration:
· Mandate transponders for all aircraft including sport, recreational and gliders.
· Mandate traffic avoidance systems (TAS) for all commercial aircraft (below 12500kg) and portable non TSO'ed awareness systems for all powered aircraft.
· Re-establish ATC and or ATS surveillance coverage at the busier and/or mixed traffic airports - virtual towers could be considered for the more remote locations.
· Update pilot licensing to ICAO Annex 1 and address the syllabi for pilots exams.
· Ensure that the ICAO Proficiency in English Language standards is achieving the required standards and is done complied with prior to flight. Optimal use of training devices to achieve a sustainable standard.
Please send feedback to [email protected] by early February 2011.
Thanks and regards
Stu Julian
Technical Director
NZALPA
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Hi Remoak. If you've got a problem with the way NZALPA deal with GA then start your own thread - don't hi-jack mine. When you do I'll gladly join that debate but I do like BBD's responses.
Hunter S. & the rest. Thanks for your input but I'm even less interested in how other airlines train their pilots than you are in how mine does. It doesn't add to the debate and it certainly doesn't give me a guilt complex about complaining. We come from entirely different methodologies and there is no simple solution, even though you think there is.
ALPA have at last come out and said it has to be properly rostered and WE are to contact our fleet management to arrange it. What? Why don't ALPA call their mate Rob and tell 'im to tell 'em to get on with it. No mention of the A320 training so I've no idea what it's status is. Would anybody on the A320 fleet care to enlighten us?
Hunter S. & the rest. Thanks for your input but I'm even less interested in how other airlines train their pilots than you are in how mine does. It doesn't add to the debate and it certainly doesn't give me a guilt complex about complaining. We come from entirely different methodologies and there is no simple solution, even though you think there is.
ALPA have at last come out and said it has to be properly rostered and WE are to contact our fleet management to arrange it. What? Why don't ALPA call their mate Rob and tell 'im to tell 'em to get on with it. No mention of the A320 training so I've no idea what it's status is. Would anybody on the A320 fleet care to enlighten us?
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Air NZ approach training
It would be a pity if the facts got in the way of a good thread.
NZALPA Air NZ CEC
Section 11.6 Web Based Training
11.6.1
CBT modules not associated with a type rating course, as and when required, may be completed during RQ days rostered to follow periods of not less than 14 days leave, (refer 16.1.3.3) or at a time of the pilots own choosing.
11.6.2
Completion of such training will be by the way of self paced learning packages. Training may be completed on Company premises or at another time and location as desired by the pilot.
11.6.3
The company will maintain a record of each pilot's training qualifications. The company shall give each pilot at least 28 days notice of any new qualification required and the expiry of any existing qualification requiring renewal.
11.6.4
The pilot may elect to use his own computer equipment to complete the training.
11.6.5
Briefing packages will be divided into training modules, and each module will be designed to enable completion in approximately 30 minutes.
11.6.6
A pilot may be required to complete a maximum of 8 training modules in a single RQ day.
Looks pretty simple to me:
1. Either you get an RQ day or you get 28 days notice.
2. Must not be type rating training.
3. Should be approx 30 mins per module. That may vary depending on the intellect of the pilot and his ability to operate a computer.
Just get on with it and you might even learn something.
NZALPA Air NZ CEC
Section 11.6 Web Based Training
11.6.1
CBT modules not associated with a type rating course, as and when required, may be completed during RQ days rostered to follow periods of not less than 14 days leave, (refer 16.1.3.3) or at a time of the pilots own choosing.
11.6.2
Completion of such training will be by the way of self paced learning packages. Training may be completed on Company premises or at another time and location as desired by the pilot.
11.6.3
The company will maintain a record of each pilot's training qualifications. The company shall give each pilot at least 28 days notice of any new qualification required and the expiry of any existing qualification requiring renewal.
11.6.4
The pilot may elect to use his own computer equipment to complete the training.
11.6.5
Briefing packages will be divided into training modules, and each module will be designed to enable completion in approximately 30 minutes.
11.6.6
A pilot may be required to complete a maximum of 8 training modules in a single RQ day.
Looks pretty simple to me:
1. Either you get an RQ day or you get 28 days notice.
2. Must not be type rating training.
3. Should be approx 30 mins per module. That may vary depending on the intellect of the pilot and his ability to operate a computer.
Just get on with it and you might even learn something.
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Strikes me Trev that the Air NZ Council disagrees with you as they're saying it's not in compliance - at last - and that's good enough for me. Thanks also for pointing out that for a lot of the A320 drivers the notice of requirement to do a differences course is inadequate. We should get Alpapilot to get onto that case too.
For those of you not in the know 'RQ' days are rostered at the end of 2 weeks annual leave or more. The idea is compensation for doing airport briefings at home. Trev would have a point if we were all rostered two weeks annual leave over the period from mid-December to 10 Feb. As ANZ are still flying that obviously hasn't happened. BTW an RQ day can and is taken off you if you request days off at the end of your leave so you may not even get one.
We would like to learn something but in this instance in the Company's time not our own. Next we'll be doing sims and sliding down escape slides in our own time too - do you want that?
In my experience any monkey can parrot the contract but understanding it takes brains. Go get some!
For those of you not in the know 'RQ' days are rostered at the end of 2 weeks annual leave or more. The idea is compensation for doing airport briefings at home. Trev would have a point if we were all rostered two weeks annual leave over the period from mid-December to 10 Feb. As ANZ are still flying that obviously hasn't happened. BTW an RQ day can and is taken off you if you request days off at the end of your leave so you may not even get one.
We would like to learn something but in this instance in the Company's time not our own. Next we'll be doing sims and sliding down escape slides in our own time too - do you want that?
In my experience any monkey can parrot the contract but understanding it takes brains. Go get some!
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Trev is outed.
& all you PPruners out there.
Click on Trev's name and see his previous posts. Especially the one that was written by a colleague (he didn't log off at work by the looks of it - I was right about brains, he probably goes in and 'helps out' on his days off) and the one expounding about VBAs. Really knows his stuff - I don't think.
Click on Trev's name and see his previous posts. Especially the one that was written by a colleague (he didn't log off at work by the looks of it - I was right about brains, he probably goes in and 'helps out' on his days off) and the one expounding about VBAs. Really knows his stuff - I don't think.
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Urgent update from the Council meeting on Tuesday 25 January
It is the considered view of the NZALPA Air New Zealand Pilot's Council that the CBT-style "self study" package currently provided to pilots - the subject of which is significant change to the most critical phase of flight - is deficient in both the quality of the presentation and the provision of adequate instruction.
The Council feels this training is of such import as to fall outside the scope the "Web Based Training" provisions of our CEA.
The NZALPA Air New Zealand Pilot's Council strongly opposes the this current "self study" methodology for the provision of significant, safety related training such as the current "PBN Approach" CBT package, and requires that all NZALPA Air New Zealand pilots be properly facilitated to conduct this training. Facilitation is to be taken to mean the provision of a rostered training period at a facility suitable for the completion of such instruction (including any examination), and under the supervision of an appropriately qualified instructor on the topic.
Could all pilots please request a properly facilitated training period for this training from their fleet managers regardless of whether pilots have already completed the CBT package.
So sticking to the facts:
I don’t see any mention of an RQ day in the update from ALPA, do you?
So when is “web based training” not “web based training”? When the Air NZ Council decides that it is not?
The Council feels this training is of such import as to fall outside the scope the "Web Based Training" provisions of our CEA.
The NZALPA Air New Zealand Pilot's Council strongly opposes the this current "self study" methodology for the provision of significant, safety related training such as the current "PBN Approach" CBT package, and requires that all NZALPA Air New Zealand pilots be properly facilitated to conduct this training. Facilitation is to be taken to mean the provision of a rostered training period at a facility suitable for the completion of such instruction (including any examination), and under the supervision of an appropriately qualified instructor on the topic.
Could all pilots please request a properly facilitated training period for this training from their fleet managers regardless of whether pilots have already completed the CBT package.
So sticking to the facts:
I don’t see any mention of an RQ day in the update from ALPA, do you?
So when is “web based training” not “web based training”? When the Air NZ Council decides that it is not?
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But wait - there's more!
Hot off the presses. Dunn has put out a memo saying that we now have until the end of March to complete the briefing. If we want rostering then they'll roster a couple of hours on the end of the next training duty you do.
The ALPA directive is specific in requiring a proper brief. It's their move.
The ALPA directive is specific in requiring a proper brief. It's their move.
