Rumour: Sunstate Engineers suspended over aircraft sabotage?
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As I said before, IF this is true it is one of THE most disgusting things I have ever heard, and I have heard and seen a few disgusting things after more than 40 years in the Industry Worldwide, although never with Qantas or its group.
Are you saying that say an LAME is given a specific task of checking the wheels and brakes on one of these aircraft, and while doing so he cannot help but see that one of the propellers is damaged, he is supposed to not only NOT write it up but also NOT tell anyone as it was not his task to look at the props?
IF things have got that bad in the Industry, PLEASE let me know and I will take a train or bus in future travels.
Are you saying that say an LAME is given a specific task of checking the wheels and brakes on one of these aircraft, and while doing so he cannot help but see that one of the propellers is damaged, he is supposed to not only NOT write it up but also NOT tell anyone as it was not his task to look at the props?
IF things have got that bad in the Industry, PLEASE let me know and I will take a train or bus in future travels.
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Are you saying that say an LAME is given a specific task of checking the wheels and brakes on one of these aircraft, and while doing so he cannot help but see that one of the propellers is damaged, he is supposed to not only NOT write it up but also NOT tell anyone as it was not his task to look at the props?
I was shocked at this comment. It went against everything I had been taught throughout my career,
Thus, the seed of my disengagement was sown!
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Again, IF this is true, which it seems it is, it has to be the most unethical and unprofessional attitude from Management that I have ever heard of. 
Does this apply to Pilots in this Company also?
Apart from if Pilots see something wrong with their aircraft, following this disgusting way of doing things, IF one of their Pilots is following another aircraft and he sees the other aircraft is on fire does he say nothing as it is not his business and he was NOT told to watch out for other Pilots in trouble?
Does this apply to Pilots in this Company also?
Apart from if Pilots see something wrong with their aircraft, following this disgusting way of doing things, IF one of their Pilots is following another aircraft and he sees the other aircraft is on fire does he say nothing as it is not his business and he was NOT told to watch out for other Pilots in trouble?
The company has known these doors (at least on the 1/2/300 series - not sure if the 400 doors are different) can be easily opened by various non-approved methods since they were installed, or very soon afterwards. Think SeQurity, just don't say anything
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Sadly, I got my first taste of this attitude approximately six years ago during induction week into a particular facility when the comment was made "If you see a problem outside the area you are specifically working in, don't distract yourself with that problem, someone else will have the task to inspect that area and they will deal with it"...or words to that effect.
Everyone will be happy to know that the manager who said that is still there promoting this idea.
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"If you see a problem outside the area you are specifically working in, don't distract yourself with that problem, someone else will have the task to inspect that area and they will deal with it".
Bigger holes in the Swiss cheese.
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 31st Oct 2010 at 22:17.
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Everyone will be happy to know that the manager who said that is still there promoting this idea.
Obviously don't name names here, but is this person just a number cruncher?
PLEASE tell me he is NOT an LAME.
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Obviously don't name names here, but is this person just a number cruncher?
"If you see a problem outside the area you are specifically working in, don't distract yourself with that problem, someone else will have the task to inspect that area and they will deal with it".
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I don't believe he was a LAME
However IF he was an LAME himself that would be ridiculous, as I would hope no LAME would think like that.
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Gas Bags
It is a legal requirement that defects be entered in the log book. Sure, contact the QA department, but if you have any experience at all in dealing with QA you'll understand that they mostly work 9-5 Mon-Fri. The aircraft must be prevented from departing with defect first. You wouldn't ignore and engine defect and let the a/c depart whilst you were on the phone to QA.
It is a legal requirement that defects be entered in the log book. Sure, contact the QA department, but if you have any experience at all in dealing with QA you'll understand that they mostly work 9-5 Mon-Fri. The aircraft must be prevented from departing with defect first. You wouldn't ignore and engine defect and let the a/c depart whilst you were on the phone to QA.
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Just to reiterate. The doors were reported as required when the defects were discovered, QA and Safety departments were informed. Sunstate procedures for reporting major defects or safety incidents don't provide any feedback for the person submitting.
Whilst Sunstate and Qantas both claim outrage and industrial espionage over the "discovery" of these door problems and deny that there was anything wrong with the doors in the first place, they have had modifications drawn, approved and incorporated on these very same doors that coincidently fix the very problem that was reported.
As Sunstate don't communicate with their engineers very well and didn't put out a maintenance memo highlighting these door problems, or even issue a workcard to inspect these doors at the first opportunity, an engineer that is aware of the existence of a defective component is naturally going to - as they have always done, have a look at the said component the next time they are in the vicinity of it.
This is the standard that Australian Engineers set when they maintain aircraft. This is the normal custom and practice. If Sunstate hadn't skimped on getting the slightly more expensive electronic latched doors originally to save a few bucks they wouldn't have the problems they have at the moment. No long term thought from those that chose the options. That is not the fault of the engineers that report and rectify defects.
By the way the Maintenance Manager that doesn't want people to look outside of the narrow description on a job card - wouldn't look like an American talk show doctor would he?
Whilst Sunstate and Qantas both claim outrage and industrial espionage over the "discovery" of these door problems and deny that there was anything wrong with the doors in the first place, they have had modifications drawn, approved and incorporated on these very same doors that coincidently fix the very problem that was reported.
As Sunstate don't communicate with their engineers very well and didn't put out a maintenance memo highlighting these door problems, or even issue a workcard to inspect these doors at the first opportunity, an engineer that is aware of the existence of a defective component is naturally going to - as they have always done, have a look at the said component the next time they are in the vicinity of it.
This is the standard that Australian Engineers set when they maintain aircraft. This is the normal custom and practice. If Sunstate hadn't skimped on getting the slightly more expensive electronic latched doors originally to save a few bucks they wouldn't have the problems they have at the moment. No long term thought from those that chose the options. That is not the fault of the engineers that report and rectify defects.
By the way the Maintenance Manager that doesn't want people to look outside of the narrow description on a job card - wouldn't look like an American talk show doctor would he?
I don't see the problem here - if somebody writes something up in the tech log and it gets checked out and found to be within limits or comply with the regs, then it will be signed off as okay and no more problems. If, however it cannot be signed off as okay, then it becomes a deferred defect (if allowable) or it gets fixed.
So if the doors meet the requirements and there is no problem with them, just sign them off and away you go. If they can't be signed off, well there must be a problem with them. What am I missing here?
So if the doors meet the requirements and there is no problem with them, just sign them off and away you go. If they can't be signed off, well there must be a problem with them. What am I missing here?
What am I missing here?
Are these the same mangers who thought a handover of the shifts was an authorised Union meeting! If so, this is what we are missing.
I think to understand these fools, you have to have an appreciation they wanted to give the union a blackeye and to have the PIA cancelled. I think we sometimes put these people in a place where we believe intelligent people operate. Really they do not deserve that sort of recognition. These pople operate with no understanding of their workforce legislative requirements, or their needs for that matter. They are consumed by the desire to put people down and suppress them. They enjoy it. They high fived when they saw this opportunity. Common sense never saw the light of day.
They're fools. Sink these Management people and all that were involved in this decision Fed Sec. It is what they wanted to do ultimately to all association members, using these 6 engineers and the pilot as pawns. Send them to the boneyard at the NSW railways with their other colleagues from mainline.
I think to understand these fools, you have to have an appreciation they wanted to give the union a blackeye and to have the PIA cancelled. I think we sometimes put these people in a place where we believe intelligent people operate. Really they do not deserve that sort of recognition. These pople operate with no understanding of their workforce legislative requirements, or their needs for that matter. They are consumed by the desire to put people down and suppress them. They enjoy it. They high fived when they saw this opportunity. Common sense never saw the light of day.
They're fools. Sink these Management people and all that were involved in this decision Fed Sec. It is what they wanted to do ultimately to all association members, using these 6 engineers and the pilot as pawns. Send them to the boneyard at the NSW railways with their other colleagues from mainline.
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Flt Ops Admin
Message to all QantasLink Staff 29 October : I refer to recent allegations by the ALAEA that the cockpit doors on QantasLink Dash 8 aircraft are unsafe and that the fleet should be removed from service. As a result, OTS and CASA conducted an inspection and review of Dash 8 cockpit doors yesterday. This review was conducted in Sydney by a combined team of specialists from OTS and CASA who reviewed technical documentation, interviewed QantasLink Engineering staff and inspected two Dash 8 aircraft. After completing their inspection, CASA and OTS found no reason to remove the QantasLink Dash 8 fleet from service. Narendra Kumar, Executive Manager QantasLink
Message to all QantasLink Staff 29 October : I refer to recent allegations by the ALAEA that the cockpit doors on QantasLink Dash 8 aircraft are unsafe and that the fleet should be removed from service. As a result, OTS and CASA conducted an inspection and review of Dash 8 cockpit doors yesterday. This review was conducted in Sydney by a combined team of specialists from OTS and CASA who reviewed technical documentation, interviewed QantasLink Engineering staff and inspected two Dash 8 aircraft. After completing their inspection, CASA and OTS found no reason to remove the QantasLink Dash 8 fleet from service. Narendra Kumar, Executive Manager QantasLink
So is there an issue with the doors or not? Or do they just have to look as if they can be locked?
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G'day all,
Been away and come back to a growing thread and a few questions/ideas thrown around by posters, particularly Gas Bags.
A defect is when something is defective or not working properly. There can be airworthiness defects or non airworthiness. A design flaw is one of the many causes of a defect. You can't ignore an aircraft defect because it was caused by a design flaw.
Some suggestion earlier as well that they should have gone to QA first and then not snagged them becasue it was already a hot issue in the press.
The pilots did go to QA. Nothing happened for over a month. The LAMEs logged the defects in the Tech Logs before it was public. It only went public when nothing happened even after the defects were written up.
I'll finish up with this message from Qantaslink Management from the same bloke who wrote the letter standing the good LAMEs down. I was around Qantas for Safety week. Free sausages and handouts showing you how to do office stretches. At least they appear concerned about safety. The truth is another matter.
Message to all QantasLink Staff
Qantas Safety Week was held across the business units during the past week. We came together to demonstrate and drive genuine commitment to safety for air, ground, people and health. A range of activities and events have taken place where employees focused on safety as our first priority, celebrated our achievements and took the opportunity to reflect on the previous years’ events and performance.
It is important that we never forget that prevention is always better than cure. The human and material costs of treating injuries and correcting failures in the aviation industry are significantly greater than stopping them from happening in the first place. What's more, it isn't tough to do - the key to success lies in everyone taking responsibility and being accountable for the safety of our customers, our colleagues, our families and importantly ourselves.
Your involvement and support across the business unit is critical to making Safety our first priority . I would like to thank those individuals that worked exceptionally hard making safety week a success .
Remember to think safe, act safe, be safe!
Narendra Kumar
Executive Manager QantasLink
Been away and come back to a growing thread and a few questions/ideas thrown around by posters, particularly Gas Bags.
We are not discussing a DEFECT, we are discussing a DESIGN FLAW. They are two very different things and how they are treated is different as well.
Some suggestion earlier as well that they should have gone to QA first and then not snagged them becasue it was already a hot issue in the press.
The pilots did go to QA. Nothing happened for over a month. The LAMEs logged the defects in the Tech Logs before it was public. It only went public when nothing happened even after the defects were written up.
I'll finish up with this message from Qantaslink Management from the same bloke who wrote the letter standing the good LAMEs down. I was around Qantas for Safety week. Free sausages and handouts showing you how to do office stretches. At least they appear concerned about safety. The truth is another matter.
Message to all QantasLink Staff
Qantas Safety Week was held across the business units during the past week. We came together to demonstrate and drive genuine commitment to safety for air, ground, people and health. A range of activities and events have taken place where employees focused on safety as our first priority, celebrated our achievements and took the opportunity to reflect on the previous years’ events and performance.
It is important that we never forget that prevention is always better than cure. The human and material costs of treating injuries and correcting failures in the aviation industry are significantly greater than stopping them from happening in the first place. What's more, it isn't tough to do - the key to success lies in everyone taking responsibility and being accountable for the safety of our customers, our colleagues, our families and importantly ourselves.
Your involvement and support across the business unit is critical to making Safety our first priority . I would like to thank those individuals that worked exceptionally hard making safety week a success .
Remember to think safe, act safe, be safe!
Narendra Kumar
Executive Manager QantasLink
Last edited by ALAEA Fed Sec; 1st Nov 2010 at 06:55.