Rumour: Sunstate Engineers suspended over aircraft sabotage?
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The TWU walked off the job for a few hours a year ago because they had to work alongside contractors who did not have the appropriate security checks. Now, 9 of their officials are getting sued for $4.5 Million for damages.
Arnold it is not 1967. It doesn't really matter how you did it before I was even born. Our union would be bankrupt with one illegal walk off. Game over.
If you don't understand this, read it again. If you don't understand it after that, ask one of your kids to explain it.
Arnold it is not 1967. It doesn't really matter how you did it before I was even born. Our union would be bankrupt with one illegal walk off. Game over.
If you don't understand this, read it again. If you don't understand it after that, ask one of your kids to explain it.
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Yes, things have certainly changed, and as I said before I do not know or understand the current laws and regulations. 
I guess I was lucky, all the years I spent in the Industry I never actually went on strike.
Was involved in some bans etc like to get confirmed first class travel on duty, but not actual strikes.
Still remember fondly back in the 1960s when I was still an Apprentice, all the LAMEs went on strike, we wanted to as well but weren't allowed to strike by law.
I think it was before the ALAEA even existed.
The Company had all the Staff Enginners working the line (at Essendon at the time), all these Type Specialists and other Engineers normally in an office, and we Apprentices had to not only help them but show them most of the jobs, they didn't even know how to do basic stuff like changing bulkheads (seat config).
Anyway enough of memories, and a bit of I thought needed light relief, back to the topic.
I guess I was lucky, all the years I spent in the Industry I never actually went on strike.
Was involved in some bans etc like to get confirmed first class travel on duty, but not actual strikes.
Still remember fondly back in the 1960s when I was still an Apprentice, all the LAMEs went on strike, we wanted to as well but weren't allowed to strike by law.
I think it was before the ALAEA even existed.
The Company had all the Staff Enginners working the line (at Essendon at the time), all these Type Specialists and other Engineers normally in an office, and we Apprentices had to not only help them but show them most of the jobs, they didn't even know how to do basic stuff like changing bulkheads (seat config).
Anyway enough of memories, and a bit of I thought needed light relief, back to the topic.
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Funny, you need to apply to Qantas HR for a job. They work in a Qantas Hangar and have red rats on there tails. Sure looks like Qantas. So they take the money from customers at a Qantas premium then want it run like a small reginal/GA buisiness, then if you step out of line they will use the full force of Qantas IR to crucify the poor engineer.
The communications I had from CASA went to great lengths to point out that they are separate from Qantas altogether as far as CASA are concerned.
Yes, so it would seem, major part of Qantas when it suits them, but then nothing remotely to do with Qantas when it suits them
Airsupport, probably find Qantaslink/Sunstate/Southern/Eastern have their own AOC and CAR30, either individually or as a "group". So from CASA's perspectve they are seperate from QANTAS Airlines. If the administratiive functions are carried out by QANTAS Head Office, CASA is not involved and doesn't care. However, most readers of tis forum would probably agree, it is a narrow viewpoint from CASA that probably suits their purposes of keeping as low a profile as they can, lest they be found wanting or inadequate.
Just my thought.
Just my thought.
If you don't understand this, read it again.
Google Ark Tribe and read, then tell me that justice will not prevail
Last edited by Arnold E; 12th Dec 2010 at 07:51.
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Arnold, it won't work today.
The workers mentality is not one of unity, as soon as the blow torch is directed at n individual their resolve tends to disappear.
Not so much a criticism, more an observation.
I like most of my colleagues, but I don't trust they would risk much to support me or any industrial cause.
I am speaking from a pilots perspective. All you need to observe is pilots racing to pay for their own endorsement to beat a more experienced and probably talented pilot to a job.
Like a cancer it is a culture that has develped over many years. The younger less experienced take on jobs that used to be occupied by the experienced and respected. This creates an atmosphere where you never feel 100% secure. The employers love it.
In today's IR environment I think fed sec is doing all he can and deserves our support. Your support and understanding under these times can only help
The workers mentality is not one of unity, as soon as the blow torch is directed at n individual their resolve tends to disappear.
Not so much a criticism, more an observation.
I like most of my colleagues, but I don't trust they would risk much to support me or any industrial cause.
I am speaking from a pilots perspective. All you need to observe is pilots racing to pay for their own endorsement to beat a more experienced and probably talented pilot to a job.
Like a cancer it is a culture that has develped over many years. The younger less experienced take on jobs that used to be occupied by the experienced and respected. This creates an atmosphere where you never feel 100% secure. The employers love it.
In today's IR environment I think fed sec is doing all he can and deserves our support. Your support and understanding under these times can only help
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Times change,and not usually for the better.
Back in my OHMS days I went on strike a few years ago, it was protected industrial action and perfectly legal but we still had union members that not only turned up to work but went out of their way to work in different areas from their usual ones and minimise the disruption. Scabs all of them, but what can you do? You're not allowed to take them out back anymore.
Arnold, good for you guys for beating the system, but I've never worked with a group I'd trust enough to take the punt. Sad but true, in my experience these days there's always someone who'll sell you out, sometimes the person you least expect. Fortunately justice prevailed for you because you all stood together (and that does you all credit) but these days it's pirates ahoy and pirates' rules.
Good luck Fed Sec, all the best to the guys. It's a pity to see what was once a great company (Sunstate) devolve to this level of mudslinging and mistrust.
Back in my OHMS days I went on strike a few years ago, it was protected industrial action and perfectly legal but we still had union members that not only turned up to work but went out of their way to work in different areas from their usual ones and minimise the disruption. Scabs all of them, but what can you do? You're not allowed to take them out back anymore.
Arnold, good for you guys for beating the system, but I've never worked with a group I'd trust enough to take the punt. Sad but true, in my experience these days there's always someone who'll sell you out, sometimes the person you least expect. Fortunately justice prevailed for you because you all stood together (and that does you all credit) but these days it's pirates ahoy and pirates' rules.
Good luck Fed Sec, all the best to the guys. It's a pity to see what was once a great company (Sunstate) devolve to this level of mudslinging and mistrust.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 13th Dec 2010 at 07:29.
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Sunstate, Eastern, Southern
Qantaslink is a shelf company with Sunstate ( it's own AOC at the moment), Eastern ( it's own AOC). Southern I believe has ceased to exist. National Jet/ Cobham also operate under the Qantaslink banner but is a separate entity.
It would seem AJ the mayor of Qantas town is always very pleased to announce the virtues of Jetstar in making money ( wasn't he brought in to set this up). However it comes under the heading of subsidiary airlines in the group profit document along with the regional's. I bet I know where the majority of that money is coming from and it's not the orange plague.
Although they do have one distinct advantage - they can cancel flights and put the cheap seats on a red tail ( with full service) and get the people where they want to go.
It would seem AJ the mayor of Qantas town is always very pleased to announce the virtues of Jetstar in making money ( wasn't he brought in to set this up). However it comes under the heading of subsidiary airlines in the group profit document along with the regional's. I bet I know where the majority of that money is coming from and it's not the orange plague.
Although they do have one distinct advantage - they can cancel flights and put the cheap seats on a red tail ( with full service) and get the people where they want to go.
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Understood Arnold. I know what you guys did in the early days led to the reasonable wages we have today. Tactically a full walk off just doesn't suit. Sunstate would just sack all the guys and never give them their jobs back. They would keep running the place for 12 months with the 2 managers, 3 non members and the AMEs/TAs.
You've expressed your view which is fine. We'll fight this best we can and come out on top in the end.
cheers
Steve
You've expressed your view which is fine. We'll fight this best we can and come out on top in the end.
cheers
Steve
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Well good luck to you , it seems a bit forlorn from my perspective , but what would I know , an AME with forty years in the industry . Best Wishes to all for Christmas and good luck with your EBA with QF in 2011 Fed Sec , you will need it .
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The Latest from the New AOC post holder of Qantas
As you know, accountability for the Qantas Air Operator’s Certification (AOC) recently transferred from Alan Joyce to me.
History has repeatedly shown us that disasters are often characterised by a series of small failings that have worked together to breach our defences. The requirements imposed by CASA, other regulators and equipment manufacturers are there for good reason, so it is very important that we treat them seriously at all times. They improve our defences against failure or error. Treating them seriously means many things, including that compliance is understood, that it occurs appropriately, and that it is recorded and reported properly.
Recently our aviation safety regulator, CASA, has signalled that it will be taking a much harder line with those airlines and airline employees who deviate from standard operating procedures and processes. In this climate, it is vitally important that we are all aware of and act on our regulatory responsibilities and obligations. Our safety management system is dependent on an open reporting culture and I strongly encourage this. It is everyone’s responsibility to report failings and errors because by identifying them and fixing them, we prevent reoccurrence. We all should be confident that we are able to raise concerns without fear of retribution and we have well-defined reporting mechanisms available for that purpose. However should anyone feel they are being actively frustrated from raising issues through the regular channels or is fearful of any adverse repercussions, our Whistle Blower policy is available and can assist with protecting an employee’s identity. Our strategy declares that “safety is our first priority” and our organisational behaviours underpinning that strategy require that “everyone demonstrates and drives a genuine commitment to safety”. As the Qantas AOC post holder I am fully committed to ensuring we maintain the world’s best safety practices at Qantas. We have built up a strong safety reputation and record over our 90 years of operations. Let’s ensure that something we have all worked so hard to achieve continues well into the future.
Lyell Strambi Group Executive Qantas Airlines Operations
Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the reason these guys lost pay and were harassed was because they dared to voice a safety concern about cockpit doors.
It seems the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
History has repeatedly shown us that disasters are often characterised by a series of small failings that have worked together to breach our defences. The requirements imposed by CASA, other regulators and equipment manufacturers are there for good reason, so it is very important that we treat them seriously at all times. They improve our defences against failure or error. Treating them seriously means many things, including that compliance is understood, that it occurs appropriately, and that it is recorded and reported properly.
Recently our aviation safety regulator, CASA, has signalled that it will be taking a much harder line with those airlines and airline employees who deviate from standard operating procedures and processes. In this climate, it is vitally important that we are all aware of and act on our regulatory responsibilities and obligations. Our safety management system is dependent on an open reporting culture and I strongly encourage this. It is everyone’s responsibility to report failings and errors because by identifying them and fixing them, we prevent reoccurrence. We all should be confident that we are able to raise concerns without fear of retribution and we have well-defined reporting mechanisms available for that purpose. However should anyone feel they are being actively frustrated from raising issues through the regular channels or is fearful of any adverse repercussions, our Whistle Blower policy is available and can assist with protecting an employee’s identity. Our strategy declares that “safety is our first priority” and our organisational behaviours underpinning that strategy require that “everyone demonstrates and drives a genuine commitment to safety”. As the Qantas AOC post holder I am fully committed to ensuring we maintain the world’s best safety practices at Qantas. We have built up a strong safety reputation and record over our 90 years of operations. Let’s ensure that something we have all worked so hard to achieve continues well into the future.
Lyell Strambi Group Executive Qantas Airlines Operations
Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the reason these guys lost pay and were harassed was because they dared to voice a safety concern about cockpit doors.
It seems the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
It seems the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
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Our safety management system is dependent on an open reporting culture and I strongly encourage this. It is everyone’s responsibility to report failings and errors because by identifying them and fixing them, we prevent reoccurrence. We all should be confident that we are able to raise concerns without fear of retribution
So why is it that these LAMEs that were doing just that have been crucified?
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As you know, accountability for the Qantas Air Operator’s Certification (AOC) recently transferred from Alan Joyce to me.
Alan can transfer the AOC accountability, but he can't transfer overall accountability for the airline. If they put one into the side of the mountain, the CEO is accountable.
Our safety management system is dependent on an open reporting culture and I strongly encourage this. It is everyone’s responsibility to report failings and errors because by identifying them and fixing them, we prevent reoccurrence. We all should be confident that we are able to raise concerns without fear of retribution
It shows that perhaps the senior people actually do not understand what their obligations are or understand some aspects of legislation. That is concerning......