Jetstar Hiring.... Cadets?!?!
he upside for the cadet is a career path without having to p*ss around in GA, no matter what anyone says (having flown with many 200 hour jet pilots) these cadets will make fine airline pilots. Interesting times ahead, it is about time this part of the world caught up.
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If you have worked in GA for a bit ( ie 1000-2000hrs) but are struggling to get the twin time and or night hrs to get an ATPL (and the prospect of going remote is not turning you on), I could see why someone would be interested in the advanced scheme. Why hang around in GA flying clapped out machines for another year or 2? It will be interested to hear what happens with these cadets.
Did anyone see this coming?
Did anyone see this coming?
I don't agree with cadet schemes. They are after all, schemes.
At least with the Qantas cadet scheme, the new pilot will sit in the back seat, operate sectors above transition level/altitude and be exposed to International Airline operations before taking the control's of the real deal.
I know REX have a cadet scheme, and they are placed directly into the right hand seat of an RPT operation on the SAAB. But somehow, a cadet straight away operating a jet, just doesn't sit with me.
What doesn't sit with me either is that Jetstar are training cadet pilots by an overseas company! They are giving away instructional hours to overseas pilots. They must be cheaper. It is disappointing to see, and I wish that both flying organisations chosen to training the pilot's were Australian companies.
It's a sign that they will outsource their own airline operation at the drop of a hat, if the price is right.
Watch out Jetstar Pilots. The future is Orange. The future is outsourced.
Quote:
" The training program with Melbourne-based Oxford Aviation Academy and CTC Aviation Group in Hamilton, New Zealand, was announced at Moorabbin Airport on Wednesday."
Rant Source: Telstra BigPond News and Weather
At least with the Qantas cadet scheme, the new pilot will sit in the back seat, operate sectors above transition level/altitude and be exposed to International Airline operations before taking the control's of the real deal.
I know REX have a cadet scheme, and they are placed directly into the right hand seat of an RPT operation on the SAAB. But somehow, a cadet straight away operating a jet, just doesn't sit with me.
What doesn't sit with me either is that Jetstar are training cadet pilots by an overseas company! They are giving away instructional hours to overseas pilots. They must be cheaper. It is disappointing to see, and I wish that both flying organisations chosen to training the pilot's were Australian companies.
It's a sign that they will outsource their own airline operation at the drop of a hat, if the price is right.
Watch out Jetstar Pilots. The future is Orange. The future is outsourced.
Quote:
" The training program with Melbourne-based Oxford Aviation Academy and CTC Aviation Group in Hamilton, New Zealand, was announced at Moorabbin Airport on Wednesday."
Rant Source: Telstra BigPond News and Weather
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The $84k is roughly equivalent to what the Grad Dip in Aviation costs at the Uni of South Australia. From memory, you still needed to 'tip in' approx $5k to complete your M/E rating - thats what I was told at the interview. The Grad Dip was supposed to train you from zero to CPL+ME/CIR in approx 12 months. Why this costs $87k and not $70k which is what you'd theoretically pay at a normal flying school is beyond me. As far as the fee help goes, the govt doesn't loan you the money for free. They add a whopping 20% (I believe) onto the total cost so $84k becomes $100k which is what you then repay once your income reaches a certain level (again around $48k or something which increases proportionately but capped at around 9% of gross salary). These numbers are from memory when I applied for the Grad Dip (which I got but declined to go private) so they could be wrong now.
There's got to be some 'fat' built into it somewhere. My accounting brain tells me it could be built into a/c hire rates, fuel charges, etc. Its a business after all.
There's got to be some 'fat' built into it somewhere. My accounting brain tells me it could be built into a/c hire rates, fuel charges, etc. Its a business after all.
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to be honest this makes the REX cadetship look cheap. If you want to be an airline pilot, how are you supposed to ever get a second officer job or junior F/O job without being a cadet... the REX cadetship only requires a 1/4 payment and the rest is paid back which would then mean they will definitely hire you because they want to make thier money back. if an airline expects you to fork out 154,000 and not even gaurantee a job then its not worth doing! who the hell can afford this anyway?!
The cathay pacific cadetship still seems like the best one out there...
The cathay pacific cadetship still seems like the best one out there...
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Ahhhh Bruce Buchanan, the greasy used car salesman. I would take all of his 'quotes' to the same degree I would of his 'blanket incident' in F Class at QF on the B744 (that's having a flog under a blanket LAX-SYD). Shame on you... not exactly 'Chairman's Lounge' material now is he??
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Like it or not this is going to happen.....No different to many professions that have done similar things. Times change and people need to change with them. To accept change and see positives is hard to do but being bitter and twisted is even harder.
Sorry to put it so bluntly but these things can, do, and will happen whether we like them or not.
Hopefully the yougsters who take this offer up are not treated badly by existing members of the industry because they are merely taking up an opportunity that was not available previously.
Once again sorry for the rather blunt post however this is reality.
Sorry to put it so bluntly but these things can, do, and will happen whether we like them or not.
Hopefully the yougsters who take this offer up are not treated badly by existing members of the industry because they are merely taking up an opportunity that was not available previously.
Once again sorry for the rather blunt post however this is reality.
Last edited by Gas Bags; 2nd Jun 2010 at 13:52. Reason: Speling eror....sory shoold haf proov red befor posteing
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What about those flogging it out in GA?
Does anyone have some idea of what this 'cadetship' "scheme" might mean for people flogging it out in GA or in regionals???
Will Jetstar still take on DFO for the next couple of years??
Or will it go the way of airlines such as Singapore which only has cadets moving through???
Will Jetstar still take on DFO for the next couple of years??
Or will it go the way of airlines such as Singapore which only has cadets moving through???
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Is it just me or does it seem that the ACP will bring about the death of DEFO's?
Sorry, I'll rephrase.
Is it just me or is it clear that the ACP is directly aimed at killing off of DEFO's?
Why invest in your employees when you have them lining up to pay you for a work?
Changes like this only come about because companies take advantage of peoples (gen y in particular) sheer laziness. Its bloodsuckers who are willing to sacrifice conditions to circumvent any hard work that these schemes are aimed at. Its a fantastic way to run a company and will no doubt keep shareholders very happy but it takes two to tango. This wouldn't have happened if people weren’t willing to prostitute themselves.
The airlines are not all to blame though, not when you've got such poor conditions at the bottom end. The airlines are just capitalizing on what GA has done to itself by giving such a bad, dirty image right when you have one of the laziest, selfish and pushy generations coming through.
Sorry, I'll rephrase.
Is it just me or is it clear that the ACP is directly aimed at killing off of DEFO's?
Why invest in your employees when you have them lining up to pay you for a work?
Changes like this only come about because companies take advantage of peoples (gen y in particular) sheer laziness. Its bloodsuckers who are willing to sacrifice conditions to circumvent any hard work that these schemes are aimed at. Its a fantastic way to run a company and will no doubt keep shareholders very happy but it takes two to tango. This wouldn't have happened if people weren’t willing to prostitute themselves.
The airlines are not all to blame though, not when you've got such poor conditions at the bottom end. The airlines are just capitalizing on what GA has done to itself by giving such a bad, dirty image right when you have one of the laziest, selfish and pushy generations coming through.
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I could just be reading this wrong BUT...
On the cadet home page "$87,105 AUD plus GST plus ACP cost below" where ACP is roughly 85,000
On the Oxford cost and funding page " total unit fee for the APPFO course and Associate Degree of Aviation in Melbourne is AUD124,456" + "The unit fees for the APPFO course package comprising the A320 endorsement training in Hong Kong is AUD30,000 This is payable to OAA prior to the commencement of travel to Hong Kong." = $156,456
These are two different prices for the same course isn't it?
On the cadet home page "$87,105 AUD plus GST plus ACP cost below" where ACP is roughly 85,000
On the Oxford cost and funding page " total unit fee for the APPFO course and Associate Degree of Aviation in Melbourne is AUD124,456" + "The unit fees for the APPFO course package comprising the A320 endorsement training in Hong Kong is AUD30,000 This is payable to OAA prior to the commencement of travel to Hong Kong." = $156,456
These are two different prices for the same course isn't it?
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With regards to the comparisons between cadet schemes eg. QF vs Jetstar, at face value it appears as though the jetstar cadetship is a lot more attractive! With jetstar, it'll be much quicker to the right hand seat of a jet, bypassing industry placement and years as a sh*t kicking SO that a QF cadet has to put up with. Qf cadets now have to complete a second selection process after placement before being accepted as a sh*t kicking SO, jetstar cadets complete one selection process. Then there's seniority. Qf cadets wait 2-4 years from graduation to get seniority while jetstar cadets get it straight up, therefore quicker jet commands.
Assuming Jetstar continue their rapid expansion, a jetstar cadet could reasonably expect to take a jet command 5-6 years from graduation (maybe quicker with max hours?). For a Qf cadet, they'll wait 2-4 years in placement, then 5-6 years as an SO before they even become an FO.
Assuming Jetstar continue their rapid expansion, a jetstar cadet could reasonably expect to take a jet command 5-6 years from graduation (maybe quicker with max hours?). For a Qf cadet, they'll wait 2-4 years in placement, then 5-6 years as an SO before they even become an FO.
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then again dutch_oven, after the a320 cadet captain finishes his bond and wishes to move to an airline that actually pays satisfactory wages, i.e. QF, by such time the jet * cadet will be the QF cadets SO.
Those "**** kicking" s/o's will most likely earn more than the J* captain by such time anyway!
Those "**** kicking" s/o's will most likely earn more than the J* captain by such time anyway!
Junior FO
Just read the Jestar Pilots EBA.
Junior FO is defined as an FO who does not possess an ATPL.
Without the command hours to qualify for an ATPL the cadets are going to be Junior FO's for a long time.
They had better plan on a salary around $55K for a while.
Junior FO is defined as an FO who does not possess an ATPL.
Without the command hours to qualify for an ATPL the cadets are going to be Junior FO's for a long time.
They had better plan on a salary around $55K for a while.
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They'll have plenty of young wannabees to choose from. Its all part of a plan to drive pilot T & C's down and it will work. Young'uns cave to easy at EBA time and for the first 5 years they'll be stary eyed and probably still living at home. Tough times ahead, where will it end???????
On the other side of the coin J* must see significant need for more crew over the next 10 years or so or they would be going for ga guy's and gal's. I fear for the last ten years or so we've been moving the deck chairs on the Titanic only to find the bastard sinks anyway? Thats Aussie aviation for ya!
SN
On the other side of the coin J* must see significant need for more crew over the next 10 years or so or they would be going for ga guy's and gal's. I fear for the last ten years or so we've been moving the deck chairs on the Titanic only to find the bastard sinks anyway? Thats Aussie aviation for ya!
SN
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lemel - you telling J* to get stuffed in the interview really showed them. They are struggling for pilots and since you they have changed there recruitment and conditions to try and entice guys like you to the company. Considering you payed for the interview process.....
SunstarA320, as Tigers unofficial spokeperson on this site, your dig at other companies carry as much weight and influence anything that any airline CEO says.
As for the rest of you. Why is this any different to the Qantas cadetship?
As for killing DEFO`s, and cancelling the last course because of this, hardly.
These guys wont be up and running for 8months at least and that is if they are doing the 3 month course and start on the 1st of July. I believe J* will need plenty of pilots in the mean time.
DEFO`s, think back 18 months to when the industry was looking down the barrel of the worst pilot shortage in recent memory. The GFC was the only thing that gave airlines repreieve. Seeing as another shortage will hit in the near future (18-24months) all this scheme is, is an attempt to ensure they have a stream of emplloyable pilots.
These same sentiments were being aired when J* started, same when Tiger came in, "I will not work for them", "I refuse to pay for a job", "They wont last", "They wont get anyone, no one will sign up for this."
Well plenty have, plenty will and both airlines are doing O.K.
SunstarA320, as Tigers unofficial spokeperson on this site, your dig at other companies carry as much weight and influence anything that any airline CEO says.
As for the rest of you. Why is this any different to the Qantas cadetship?
As for killing DEFO`s, and cancelling the last course because of this, hardly.
These guys wont be up and running for 8months at least and that is if they are doing the 3 month course and start on the 1st of July. I believe J* will need plenty of pilots in the mean time.
DEFO`s, think back 18 months to when the industry was looking down the barrel of the worst pilot shortage in recent memory. The GFC was the only thing that gave airlines repreieve. Seeing as another shortage will hit in the near future (18-24months) all this scheme is, is an attempt to ensure they have a stream of emplloyable pilots.
These same sentiments were being aired when J* started, same when Tiger came in, "I will not work for them", "I refuse to pay for a job", "They wont last", "They wont get anyone, no one will sign up for this."
Well plenty have, plenty will and both airlines are doing O.K.
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This is just Qantaslink all over.Why hire real pilots when you can get cadets with little experience, I wonder if jetstar will be advising passengers before boarding of the limited experience of the crew for their flight.