Jet* NZ OTP
Yeah framer I suspect he was refering to the jetstar crews being inexperienced in Queenstown.
Being inexperienced is to a degree mitigated by training. I have heard, and am happy to be corrected, that jetstar are doing no QN specific training in the sim. If this is the case then I think it exposes an arrogance in the management of the airline. I have said else where that I know QN isn't the only place in the world that is challenging, but it's still challenging. Therefore I believe it demands some respect and preparation. Air NZ crews go though 2 famils 2 sims 4 training flights and then another sim all purely on QN before being released to operate there, and there are also two training sims per year for all QN qualified crew. If jetstar aren't doing any, then I will actively discourage people from flying on them.
Being inexperienced is to a degree mitigated by training. I have heard, and am happy to be corrected, that jetstar are doing no QN specific training in the sim. If this is the case then I think it exposes an arrogance in the management of the airline. I have said else where that I know QN isn't the only place in the world that is challenging, but it's still challenging. Therefore I believe it demands some respect and preparation. Air NZ crews go though 2 famils 2 sims 4 training flights and then another sim all purely on QN before being released to operate there, and there are also two training sims per year for all QN qualified crew. If jetstar aren't doing any, then I will actively discourage people from flying on them.
Yeah framer I suspect he was refering to the jetstar crews being inexperienced in Queenstown.
QF were cancelling flights in & out of NZQN with a bit of wx hanging at the head of the lake, around NZGY and NZQN CAVOK. Utter nonsense. That wx could take 4-5 hours or more to get down the lake -if at all, but that was the basis upon which flights were being diverted/cancelled as recently as Mar. to my personal knowledge.
I agree with Murdoch D that J* only have themselves to blame if they do have incidents in QN due to inexperienced crew when the crew were there for the taking, they just needed to be paid enough and type rated.
Below MDA, literally months before it was announced that J* would operate domestically in NZ I had a friend come back from the sim center and tell me that J* crews were there doing QN training.It was obvious then what was on the cards.
JC too required a specific classroom course, observing flights, simulator session, 3 flights in with a training captain and then one check ride in. Then also recurrent sims altho these were mixed in with your normal sims.
Framer
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I think the jitconnect guys have more to worry about than J*running around the country.Have heard a few qantas checkers not real happy at all that they have to train these guys on the 737-8 very soon, whilst their own flying is reducing. ( actually delaying 10 more 737-800 as well) I think there will be some very interesting cockpit chatter going on shortly??!!!
Of all the things to do to announce your arrival on the scene - stopping a kiwi from getting to an AB's match. In NZ. Not smart. Not smart at all.
Guess we'll wait for the appropriate tui ad.
Guess we'll wait for the appropriate tui ad.
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I see Air NZ is out for the quick buck...
Cheap Air NZ fares cash in on rival's woes - National - NZ Herald News
So whats the yield on a full Jetstar flight? $10?
Cheap Air NZ fares cash in on rival's woes - National - NZ Herald News
So whats the yield on a full Jetstar flight? $10?
Jetstars performance in NZ so far smacks of a we know the whats best attitude.
It is a classic example of the saying I heard many years ago. "You can always tell an Aussie,....... but you can never tell them very much"
It is a classic example of the saying I heard many years ago. "You can always tell an Aussie,....... but you can never tell them very much"
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27/9...From what I have heard through mates in Australia, J* did the same thing in Australia years ago when they started..you cant blame them, they are only doing what QF/J* mgmnt are telling them...if you want to be a smart arse and ****can Australians on pprune, at least back it up with some research for what it's worth....
J* is around to stay whether people at QF or in NZ like it or not..get used to it.....
J* is around to stay whether people at QF or in NZ like it or not..get used to it.....
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90 plus % OTP yesterday and so far today. Looks like the sched change has made the difference. First schedule was a complete stuff up, surely who ever put it in place should stand up and take it on the chin? Which way is the door? MT
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Not trying to inflame anything here, BUT Sand dune Sam, You might want to lighten up, Us kiwis' hear those absolutely hilarious sheep jokes everyday. Get over yourself, It was a joke I am sure
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Pigdriver wrote "I think the jitconnect guys have more to worry about than J*running around the country.Have heard a few qantas checkers not real happy at all that they have to train these guys on the 737-8 very soon, whilst their own flying is reducing. ( actually delaying 10 more 737-800 as well) I think there will be some very interesting cockpit chatter going on shortly??!!!"
You reckon the QF checkies are that unprofessional? Either they all refuse to do it and follow through, or they do it and shut-up. Any "interesting cockpit chatter" would not be conducive to a professional or safe flight deck environment. Air NZ trained a lot of Freedom pilots on the A320 without any problems.
Surely it will be contracted work, paid for by Jetconnect......why would anyone blame the Jetconnect pilots for what is going on in Qantas Australia?
I'm afraid the Qantas pilots made that particular bed when they did nothing when Jetconnect first started...not to mention J*
Something about crying over spilt milk whilst the gate swings open and the horse has bolted (if you will excuse my mixed metaphors)
You reckon the QF checkies are that unprofessional? Either they all refuse to do it and follow through, or they do it and shut-up. Any "interesting cockpit chatter" would not be conducive to a professional or safe flight deck environment. Air NZ trained a lot of Freedom pilots on the A320 without any problems.
Surely it will be contracted work, paid for by Jetconnect......why would anyone blame the Jetconnect pilots for what is going on in Qantas Australia?
I'm afraid the Qantas pilots made that particular bed when they did nothing when Jetconnect first started...not to mention J*
Something about crying over spilt milk whilst the gate swings open and the horse has bolted (if you will excuse my mixed metaphors)
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jokestar sucks - lets just use em for a wee whiles longer to keep our commuting costs with ANZ down
Interesting business plan - go to a foreign country, make an absolute ass of yerself, let the locals take advantage of your offshore subsidized low fairs for a few years (months/weeks) in the hope that one day you'll gain market share & be able to charge those same broke-ass clientèle a decent wack, don't think so!
these twits are giving ryanair a bad name
Interesting business plan - go to a foreign country, make an absolute ass of yerself, let the locals take advantage of your offshore subsidized low fairs for a few years (months/weeks) in the hope that one day you'll gain market share & be able to charge those same broke-ass clientèle a decent wack, don't think so!
these twits are giving ryanair a bad name
Last edited by Lineboy4life; 25th Jun 2009 at 20:48. Reason: more hate
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Heard a Jet* flight in Wellington yesterday calling for taxi clearance, with 21 POB. Those sort of numbers will make it easier for them to get off the gate on time.
Unfortunately though they will be here to stay. As a mate at JitConnect said, Qantas have very deep pockets so after several months of marketing, specials etc passenger numbers will rise. Maybe though over the next few years T&Cs for staff will improve (as happened at JC). Presumably Qantas will then come up with an even lower cost airline.
Unfortunately though they will be here to stay. As a mate at JitConnect said, Qantas have very deep pockets so after several months of marketing, specials etc passenger numbers will rise. Maybe though over the next few years T&Cs for staff will improve (as happened at JC). Presumably Qantas will then come up with an even lower cost airline.
Distracted cockroach, I think the check captains will get on with the job (though not particularly loving the idea) as it is what they are paid and like to do. What I think the QF training dept is worried about is the sniping (or lack of any input) from the jump seat from the QF mainline F/Os who are not in training dept. F/Os who have to be there by law sitting there to watch someone be trained to potentially reduce their opportunities.
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I don't quite understand the attitude here. Jetstar is being slagged off for having such a bad OTP during startup. They recognise that the schedule they have put in place is a bunch of **** so they change it and are now averaging 90% ontime. They get slagged off for not having enough experience to operate into the extremes of ZQN, the crews (who are more than likely very capable) make operational decisions on the day which includes at times diverting due weather etc...The experience will come soon enough. Jetstar is introducing into New Zealand a low cost model (similar to easyjet) which will eventually provide the population with 'cheap' fares, reliable service and most of all safe. Jetstar puts a package on the table which many consider to be below industry standard but obviously is good enough for numerous people to consider, these things have a history of finding an equilibrium i.e. If the package is so bad, no one will sign up, Jetstar initially pitched it to low and had to up the contract conditions, albeit slightly, to attract enough candidates. Earning $80,000+ as an FO and $140,000+ as a Captain is a reasonable wage in any industry in New Zealand, just because Air New Zealand pays more does not mean that this is the correct amount for all airlines to pay, Air New Zealand crews are on to a good thing and should enjoy it whilst it lasts, after we all emerge from the current financial woes most airlines including the big boys will have to be far more stream lined and cost effective than they are now if they are to compete in the future.
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Quite right AH,
we shouldn't be slagging off Jet* for it's OTP, it's startup problems, it's 'lack' of Queenstown experience, it's rescheduling...
We should be slagging it off for it's lack of communication and customer service as the New Zealand public are now finding out.
Too right.. I don't use Jet* nor do I ever intend to in the future....
we shouldn't be slagging off Jet* for it's OTP, it's startup problems, it's 'lack' of Queenstown experience, it's rescheduling...
We should be slagging it off for it's lack of communication and customer service as the New Zealand public are now finding out.
Too right.. I don't use Jet* nor do I ever intend to in the future....
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Cypher,
Quite right, this is the basis of my whole point. If you find them to be fundamenttaly offensive then you can use your consumer 'choice' and don't fly with them. Having seen over 10 years of people saying that 'Ryanair' will never stay in business because of their crappy customer service, constant requirement to adjust the bottom line and thier reputation as all around 'bad eggs' I am just saying that this model is successful and (most) people will go with whoever offers the cheapest fare. Afterall Ryanair is probably the most cash rich airline in the world at the moment. Most problems with Jetstar at the moment are the result of being a 'new' operation that would effect ANY start-up, it will get better over time perhaps with the exception of the perceived 'bad' customer service. Watch that 'Airline' programme any day of the week and you will witness EasyJet customers being turned away daily as they missed check-in by 30 seconds, customers angry about cancelled/diverted services. The point is people will keep coming back. And finally after working the last 5 years for one of the worlds big 'Legacy' carriers I can assure you 'bad' customer service is not the exclusive field of the 'low cost' carrier. Why don't we have newspaper articles about Air NZ passengers being refused check-in, having horrible experiences..... simply because it isn't newsworthy, just as Jetstars day to day running won't be newsworthy in 6 weeks time.
Quite right, this is the basis of my whole point. If you find them to be fundamenttaly offensive then you can use your consumer 'choice' and don't fly with them. Having seen over 10 years of people saying that 'Ryanair' will never stay in business because of their crappy customer service, constant requirement to adjust the bottom line and thier reputation as all around 'bad eggs' I am just saying that this model is successful and (most) people will go with whoever offers the cheapest fare. Afterall Ryanair is probably the most cash rich airline in the world at the moment. Most problems with Jetstar at the moment are the result of being a 'new' operation that would effect ANY start-up, it will get better over time perhaps with the exception of the perceived 'bad' customer service. Watch that 'Airline' programme any day of the week and you will witness EasyJet customers being turned away daily as they missed check-in by 30 seconds, customers angry about cancelled/diverted services. The point is people will keep coming back. And finally after working the last 5 years for one of the worlds big 'Legacy' carriers I can assure you 'bad' customer service is not the exclusive field of the 'low cost' carrier. Why don't we have newspaper articles about Air NZ passengers being refused check-in, having horrible experiences..... simply because it isn't newsworthy, just as Jetstars day to day running won't be newsworthy in 6 weeks time.
AH
Where did you get those wage figures from? The figures I have heard quoted are much less than you state, at least for FO's and there is a salary sacrifice for 3 years.
As for the OTP and schedule changes, they took over an existing operation, they must have had some idea as to what schedule would work. So far their approach to things seems very arrogant.
It's going to take a long while to claw back the damage of the first couple of weeks.
Where did you get those wage figures from? The figures I have heard quoted are much less than you state, at least for FO's and there is a salary sacrifice for 3 years.
As for the OTP and schedule changes, they took over an existing operation, they must have had some idea as to what schedule would work. So far their approach to things seems very arrogant.
It's going to take a long while to claw back the damage of the first couple of weeks.
What I think the QF training dept is worried about is the sniping (or lack of any input) from the jump seat from the QF mainline F/Os who are not in training dept. F/Os who have to be there by law sitting there to watch someone be trained to potentially reduce their opportunities
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The locals in the paper are referring to the outfit as One Star. 
"Discover Life beyond the Bombay Hills" seems a little ambitious given the track record. Mangere would be a start.
"Discover Life beyond the Bombay Hills" seems a little ambitious given the track record. Mangere would be a start.